NV40 non ultra vs. 5950 and 9800XT

[anzak]

If the NV40 does have a 16x1 design my guess is that it would kill thoughs two. But if it has the 8x2 design do you think it will have faster shader operations than the 9800XT? What im asking is should I buy a high end card now or wait for the NV40 non ultra priced at ~$300?

[retsam]

wow nows theres a loaded question it :D well its really tuff to say right now.....no one right now can really answer those questions ..... i had asked something close to that question three weeks ago.... do i get the best and brightest now or wait and see .... so i took the middle ground ... i went out and bought an ati 9600xt. it will play most games right now at a decent frame rate and was really cheap ... 150 bucks from newegg... when the r4XX and nv4x comes along i will relook at whats out there for what i want it todo. anyways by then hl2 and d3 will be out and ill look at the reviews from many many sites and then plunk down my hard earned cash on the fastest.... and another thing to think about with a new series of cards,is it takes a few months for drivers to mature so it might be best to take a wait and see aproach to all of this. anyways all of this 16x1,16x2,and 8x2,and 8x1 is pointless you really should look at reviews of the cards.just to make sure it plays the games you like the way you like it.

wow did i just say all that i need to go back to lurking



rets
:afro2:

[MUYA]

Originally posted by anzak
If the NV40 does have a 16x1 design my guess is that it would kill thoughs two. But if it has the 8x2 design do you think it will have faster shader operations than the 9800XT? What im asking is should I buy a high end card now or wait for the NV40 non ultra priced at ~$300?

Hopefully non ultras will be faster than current high end ones but cost lower! :D Just wait for the new GPU launches dude, that way even the 9800XT or 5950 U will go down in price...ie stock clearance ;)

[Mariner]

The main question to be answered here is how long you willing to wait?

The 9800XT is available in shops now whereas the NV40 non ultra (assuming there is such a beast) has not been announced. I believe it is rumoured that NV40 won't be available until around June now and if the initial supply of chips is limited, they are going to be used in the Ultra versions first. I wouldn't expect to see a lower-end NV40 available in good quantities until a month or two after the high-end version is released.

[MUYA]

Originally posted by Mariner
The main question to be answered here is how long you willing to wait?

The 9800XT is available in shops now whereas the NV40 non ultra (assuming there is such a beast) has not been announced. I believe it is rumoured that NV40 won't be available until around June now and if the initial supply of chips is limited, they are going to be used in the Ultra versions first. I wouldn't expect to see a lower-end NV40 available in good quantities until a month or two after the high-end version is released.

True but also the longer the wait ... the cheaper you can get the 9800XT and 5950U for.

[DSC]

Not all chips will hit the Ultra speeds, they'll be sorted into different speed bins, there'll be more than enough chips for U and NU cards. And there might be chips which some of the pipelines are not functional, another possible bin sorting there, where Nv can sell them at a lower price ala 9800SE.

[MatiasZ[OC]]

i don´t think so, if we take into account what happened with NV30 and NV35, both highends came MUCH before their slower parts (nv31 and nv36 respectively), and you coundn´t buy a 5900SE or XT or even regulars 5900 when 5900 Ultra came out

[jbirney]

But the how long do you want to wait factor is a hard one to call.

Just this month you have UT2k4, BF:V and now FarCry all do to come out with in a week (all are gold now). So ask your self is it worth it to get the best dam frames rates you can now while you play those games now? Or wait for an unknown time for unknown performanace. There is always something bigger, faster better coming soon. Question is do you want to wait for it...

[saturnotaku]

Originally posted by jbirney
So ask your self is it worth it to get the best dam frames rates you can now while you play those games now? Or wait for an unknown time for unknown performanace. There is always something bigger, faster better coming soon. Question is do you want to wait for it...

It's not really that so much as 'how much do you want to pay for it?'

There's nothing wrong with getting a 9800XT or 5950 for these games, but when the new GPUs launch, their prices will come down. Imagine a 9800XT for less than $300! :eek:

[jbirney]

Originally posted by saturnotaku
It's not really that so much as 'how much do you want to pay for it?'

There's nothing wrong with getting a 9800XT or 5950 for these games, but when the new GPUs launch, their prices will come down. Imagine a 9800XT for less than $300! :eek:

Very true. But whats the price you for suffring by playing at a lower res on those games today? Yea you can save money buy waiting but then you also risk missing out on the experince on those games.

[MUYA]

Originally posted by jbirney
Very true. But whats the price you for suffring by playing at a lower res on those games today? Yea you can save money buy waiting but then you also risk missing out on the experince on those games.

True but think of the newer games you can enjoy with the new GPUs like, Far Cry, Ut2k3 ....Stalker, Painkiller, Splinter Cell 2...Doom III? HL2???

So you aren't going to miss out much in terms of eye candy if u wait either. :D

Thats the beauty of it :D

[Geforce4ti4200]

why buy a 9800xt anyway when a 9800 pro is 90% as fast and costs $212 on newegg? :rolleyes:


what nvidia is doing is gonna speedbin. They wont have enough lower clocked cores initally, but will once they collect the weaker ones over a couple months. with 16 pipes rumored, I cant imagine why there wont be an 8 pipe verson, its too easy for even one pipe to be nonfunctional with that many pipes, in fact I expect most of those to have one or more broken pipes. Those with more than 8 bad pipes are garbage or used as 4 pipes for low end. I am pretty sure I heard somewhere nvidia does plan to have 8 pipe verson clocked also lower than the ultra, but may have an ultra with 8 pipes


fx6900u 16 pipes at 550/1200
fx6900 16 pipes at 450/950
fx6700u 8 pipes at 550/950(no point wasting expensive ram for 8 pipes)
fx6700 8 pipes at 450/800(ditto)
fx6500u 4 pipes at 500/800(ditto as below)
fx6500 4 pipes at 400/650(not sure if nvidia will make a 4 pipe verson)


I heard nvidia will have at least 5 different graphic cards, so the above may be true, one can always speculate :afro2: :afro:

[jbirney]

Originally posted by MUYA
True but think of the newer games you can enjoy with the new GPUs like, Far Cry, Ut2k3 ....Stalker, Painkiller, Splinter Cell 2...Doom III? HL2???

So you aren't going to miss out much in terms of eye candy if u wait either. :D

Thats the beauty of it :D

Like I said thats up to each user and how long they want to wait. I mean why buy the NV40/5 to play those games when they will play SO much better on the NV100? Its a trade off for the price you pay today, vrs how good the FPS is vrs how long you wait to play it vrs a bunch of other factors.

Again there is always bigger and better coming down the road....

I have been itching to upgrade the 9700pro but for now I will wait as the jump to 98xx/59xx is not worth the price. Hoping for some good R420/NV4x action :)

[DSC]

No, Nv cannot do that, it's still cheaper to manufacture other cores based on NV40 such as NV41, NV42 and NV43 than to bin NV40 into separate GPUs. Of couse, the real value would be a NV40XT at $199 price point, which I'm looking forward to...... :p

[nutball]

Originally posted by Geforce4ti4200
I heard nvidia will have at least 5 different graphic cards, so the above may be true, one can always speculate :afro2: :afro:

I thought what they said was that they'd be selling cards based on 5 different versions of the core. There's scope for multiple cards per core (Ultra and non-Ultra for example, 64MB, 128MB, 256MB, 512MB).

This means potentially 10-15 different cards, further bemusing a befuddling the brains of the witless consumer. Not much different from now really. I'm getting very bored sorting through all the different GFFX and Radeon cards when people ask me what they should buy.

Oh well, I suppose it keep the marketing people from cluttering up the streets and dole queues.

[Geforce4ti4200]

they will at least speed bin the 8 pipe verson. They may have a seperate line for the low end 4 pipe cores. since most of the 16 pipe cores wont have all 16 working, its cheaper for them to save and bin those to 8 pipes

[anzak]

Instead of spending $500 on an XT or waiting for the NV40 non ultra im buying the following items from newegg.

Sapphire Radeon 9800 Pro
ViewSonic E70F+SB 17" (because I hate the quality and refresh rate of my current monitor)
Creative Labs Sound Blaster Live! 5.1
KINYO KY-100 5.1 Channel Headphone

$453 shipped, I would be lucky if I could find a 9800XT for that price.

[bkswaney]

Originally posted by anzak
Instead of spending $500 on an XT or waiting for the NV40 non ultra im buying the following items from newegg.

Sapphire Radeon 9800 Pro
ViewSonic E70F+SB 17" (because I hate the quality and refresh rate of my current monitor)
Creative Labs Sound Blaster Live! 5.1
KINYO KY-100 5.1 Channel Headphone

$453 shipped, I would be lucky if I could find a 9800XT for that price.

Nice setup. :)
THo if it were me I would have went for a 256meg videocard.
But that's just me. ;)

[zakelwe]

5 cores for nv40 so I assume like people above that will be differences in what you get rather than just speed points.

Nv3x has 3 cores as far as I am aware, FX 5200/5600 is one, 5700U is another ( with it's extra vertex shader ?? ) and 5900/5950 is another, with 8 pipelines.

I'd assume an nv40 with 4 pipelines would be the nv40 version of the 5200, but unlike the 5200, if it is clocked at 400-450Mhz then it might be quite a nice deal for people who buy in that segment.

here's my own attempt at being nvidia marketing department for the day :-

FX 6200 4 pipelines 400Mhz core, 700Mhz DDR memory
FX 6200U 4 pipelines 450Mhz core, 900Mhz DDR memory

FX 6400 4 pipelines 500Mhz core, 600Mhz GDDR3 memory
FX6400U 4 pipelines 550Mhz core, 700Mhz GDDR3 memory

FX6600 8 pipelines 400Mhz core, 700Mhz GDDR3 memory
FX6500U 8 pipelines 475Mhz core, 800Mhz GDDR3 memory

FX6700 16 pipelines 400Mhz core, 700Mhz GDDR3 memory
FX6700U 16 pipelines 475Mhz core, 800Mhz GDDR memory

FX 6800 16 pieplines 550Mhz core, 800Mhz GDDR3 memory
FX6800U "ATImizer Special " 16 pipelines 800Mhz core, 1Ghz GDDR3 memory


Ok, the last one is totally unrealistic heh heh.

Well that was fun for 5 minutes , load of rubbish of course, anyone got any wild guesses ?

Regards

Andy

[nutball]

I suppose one of the 5 could be a mobile solution?

[silence]

Originally posted by zakelwe
FX 5200/5600 is one, 5700U is another ( with it's extra vertex shader ?? ) and 5900/5950 is another, with 8 pipelines.



urm??...5200 and 5600 are completly different chips. one is low end and second in middle range.

currently u have more NV chips on market : nv19, nv31, nv34, nv35, nv36, nv38 (at least around here;) )..

that's without mobile chips:)

[-=DVS=-]

Originally posted by zakelwe

FX6600 8 pipelines 400Mhz core, 700Mhz GDDR3 memory
FX6500U 8 pipelines 475Mhz core, 800Mhz GDDR3 memory

Well that was fun for 5 minutes , load of rubbish of course, anyone got any wild guesses ?

:p well thats my guess. actually i bet 2 $ :D

[zakelwe]

Originally posted by silence
urm??...5200 and 5600 are completly different chips. one is low end and second in middle range.

currently u have more NV chips on market : nv19, nv31, nv34, nv35, nv36, nv38 (at least around here;) )..

that's without mobile chips:)

Is it just not a downclocked 5600 though, even though it has a differnt nv code name?

Regards

Andy

[silence]

Originally posted by zakelwe
Is it just not a downclocked 5600 though, even though it has a differnt nv code name?

Regards

Andy

nope...different tranzistor counts and everything....

NV31 NVIDIA 130 80 4x1 128

NV34 NVIDIA 150 47 4x1 128


that's codename - manufacturer - process - tranzistor count

http://www.beyond3d.com/misc/chipcomp/

[zakelwe]

I think our definitions of core are different, mine is a different architecture, therefore the 3 cores would be

1) nv30/nv31/nv34

2) nv35/38 ( 256 bit bandwidth etc )

3) nv36 extra vertex processing unit

Nvidia say there were 3 cores, so there can't be one for each nv code name.

Regards

Andy