R420 to have a 12X1 pixel pipeline configuration?

[MUYA]

From the inkwell (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=14739)

The ATI R420 chip seems to be a heavily-tweaked R360 core, with added pipelines, built on a .13 marchitecture that allows the chips to run faster than ATI's current high-end chip milestone, a 412MHz R360.

As we previously said, the relative frequency numbers for this chip will be close to 500/1000MHz in its XT version; it will use GDDR 3 memory that consumes less power, and yet gives out less heat, than DDR 2.

Its all about the brawn this time, ATI says. And, with six vertex shader units, this chip ought to be very fast.

[SnakeEyes]

Sounds good. Too bad I still don't really trust that source. :D

[DMA]

/me prays for many NDA violations and tasty leaks@CeBIT. :D

[Brick_Top]

Originally posted by MUYA
From the inkwell (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=14739)


Maybe MuFu was spreading FUD?

:confused:

[Geforce4ti4200]

isnt the 12x1 pipeline an old rumor by now? I have told people there is a 90% chance ati will go 12 pipes months back but they flamed me saying "no way" "impossible" but now the nv40 could be 16 pipes and people are accepting it may be true? :rolleyes: If I had to guess at this point:

475/950 at 12x1 for r420
400/1200 at 16x1 for nv40

400 times 16 is 6400
475 times 12 is 5700

thus the nv40 is about 12% faster, plus more ram bandwith too. This could mean nvidia can charge $100 more than ati since the extra performance warrents it

[Geforce4ti4200]

Originally posted by DMA
/me prays for many NDA violations and tasty leaks@CeBIT. :D


hopeful but not very likley. Do they want to lose their jobs, cars, homes and be unable to get any job other than driving a truck or cooking burgers? :eek: :mad:

[Nv40]

we have now according with the INQ..
R420 -> 12 pipelines with ~500/1000 core/memory .13 but still using Ps2.0

Nv40 ->16 "full" pipelines ~600/600? core/memory .13 with Ps3.0 but also ~210million transistors.

also that the Nv40 is 4xtimes faster in Doom3 ,7x times in HL2 ,and 3x times in averall speed. with probably new AA/AF

we will know for sure very soon , lets hope that those rumors are true ,because we will need that power if we want to play with all the eye candy in incoming games :)

[Miksu]

Originally posted by Geforce4ti4200
thus the nv40 is about 12% faster

Heh, you're funny.

[MUYA]

Originally posted by Miksu
Heh, you're funny.

he's talking theoretics ;) ie pixel fill rate based on them rumoured specs.
:D

no one know which one will be faster

[-=DVS=-]

One of these rumors is false numbers don't add up

R420 -> 12 pipelines with ~500/1000 core/memory .13 but still using Ps2.0
Nv40 ->16 "full" pipelines ~600/600? core/memory .13 with Ps3.0 but also ~210million transistors

I realy doupt NV40 with 16 pipe 210 MT on .13 can reach 600 core just impossible considering Atis 12 pipe less MT and only 500 core ?
If we would look in the past Ati managed 412Mhz on .15 process with small heatsink , Nvidia only managed 500 max on .13 with old NV30 and VacuumCleaner :eek:

Me thinks NV 40 is 8 pipe and partial 16 , like all the NV30+ 4/8 designs , dunno about R420 475/950 at 12x1 for r420 numbers seem reasonable . Then again you never know world might turn arround :rolleyes:

Inquirer full of bull sure makes things sound BIG :rolleyes:
Need to wait a little longer for truth :D

[Miksu]

Originally posted by -=DVS=-
[B]One of these rumors is false numbers don't add up


Actually, Inq has only told that NVidia is aiming at 500+, I'm not sure where Nv40 got the ~600MHz. People at B3D seem to be suggesting that the final core speed is under 500. Or at least were suggesting some weeks ago, don't know that's the status now.

[nobie]

But now we can reveal that the R420 design features 12 working piplines from a possible maximum of 16.

What? Why would their be 4 non-working pipes?

[eesa]

Originally posted by SnakeEyes
Sounds good. Too bad I still don't really trust that source. :D

Actually, I've found them to be more often times right than wrong. Esp. when it comes to these things. Kinda scares me.

[eesa]

Originally posted by Nv40
we have now according with the INQ..
R420 -> 12 pipelines with ~500/1000 core/memory .13 but still using Ps2.0

Nv40 ->16 "full" pipelines ~600/600? core/memory .13 with Ps3.0 but also ~210million transistors.

also that the Nv40 is 4xtimes faster in Doom3 ,7x times in HL2 ,and 3x times in averall speed. with probably new AA/AF

Hmm, that last line almost sounded sarcastic. If that's not the case, then it's an honest mistake :)

I have no idea. When you get numbers like 7x though, I just don't know what to say.

[EMunEeE]

Originally posted by Geforce4ti4200
isnt the 12x1 pipeline an old rumor by now? I have told people there is a 90% chance ati will go 12 pipes months back but they flamed me saying "no way" "impossible" but now the nv40 could be 16 pipes and people are accepting it may be true? :rolleyes: If I had to guess at this point:

475/950 at 12x1 for r420
400/1200 at 16x1 for nv40

400 times 16 is 6400
475 times 12 is 5700

thus the nv40 is about 12% faster, plus more ram bandwith too. This could mean nvidia can charge $100 more than ati since the extra performance warrents it

See, but your logic is is on point (theoretical/synthetical tests), but in the real world, fillrate does not determine what card is faster like it did in the past. Fillrate and bandwidth is not everything. If it was then XGI would have killed everyone.

[GlowStick]

Sounds fishey to me, the part about "it has 12 of 16" wtf dose that mean, sounds made up to me!

Im sticking with what Anandtech said it being 8x<unknown>

[Geforce4ti4200]

Originally posted by nobie
What? Why would their be 4 non-working pipes?


this makes no sense to me either. having 16 pipes in the r420 would bump the count to 200+ transistors so im not even gonna go there

[Paul]

Originally posted by nobie
What? Why would their be 4 non-working pipes?

You need to think about the realities of chip design, then run with this idea. You'll probably stumble across the truth :cool:

[anzak]

Originally posted by Nv40
also that the Nv40 is 4xtimes faster in Doom3 ,7x times in HL2 ,and 3x times in averall speed. with probably new AA/AF

Doom 3: 60fps * 4 = 240fps?!?!?!?!

Half Life 2 (if there even is a game called half life 2): 35fps * 7 = 245fps!?!?!

[Paul]

Originally posted by anzak
Doom 3: 60fps * 4 = 240fps?!?!?!?!

Half Life 2 (if there even is a game called half life 2): 35fps * 7 = 245fps!?!?!

No.

They're not comparing apples to apples. For instance, you can get 7* and 4* figures if you start comparing lengthy NV3x unoptimised shaders vs. NV40 optimised shaders. Half-Life2 won't be anything like 245fps, put it that way.

[MuFu]

Originally posted by Brick_Top
Maybe MuFu was spreading FUD?

:confused:

Maybe he just didn't know what he was talking about? Just like everybody else...

UNTIL TODAY. :D

[anzak]

Originally posted by Paul
No.

They're not comparing apples to apples. For instance, you can get 7* and 4* figures if you start comparing lengthy NV3x unoptimised shaders vs. NV40 optimised shaders. Half-Life2 won't be anything like 245fps, put it that way.

It was meant as a joke, there is no way that the NV40 will have that sort of performance.

[rwolf]

ATI did warn that margins would be lower because the transistor count was much higher.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20030812141326.html

ATI’s VP of Desktop division also did not said anything on timeframes of the code-named R400/R420 next-generation architecture product, but said that it contains hundreds of millions transistors and will be made using [now] mature 0.13 micron fabrication technology.

There was also a quote from one of their tool vendors talking about hundreds of millions of transistors. I couldn't find a link though.

I think we are being deceived by the so called rumor spreaders.:D

[MUYA]

can it get more confusing? 12X1 but 16 to choose from? :p

/me slaps his head with a pixel pipeline theorectics book

*slam*

anyways we have a rough idea of the number of (not confirmed) pixel pipelines. But...any performance quotes?

[lokeshray]

4 non working pipes?
12 working pipes out of a maximum of 16?

seems like under ordinary circumstances it is a 12x1 card
and other special circumstances its a 16x1 card.
maybe its something to do with the word "extreme pipelines"

wonder if its something similar to the nv30 4x2,8x1 ..zixel trick

how bout 12x1/24x0?..if such a thing can exist?