New Day Another Inkwell Story..NV40 this time

[MUYA]

Nvidia is telling "selected people" that NV40 is indeed 210 millions of transistor chip with 16 pipelines as we reported a few weeks ago.

The other side of this NV40 coin is that the real Mc Coy the real NV40 card that was taped out quite some time ago is actually going to be KIA [Killed in action]. Very knowledgeable friends told us recently in the Vienna Opera house that NV40 with 16 pipes and 210 millions of transistor is completely other chip then original NV40.

What actually happened is that Nvidia recently learned about R420 marchitecture and this entire 12x1 story and, that they will eventually end up in second place and decided to can NV40 project and to go immediately with NV45.
.....................

As the case is altered, Nvidia might win performance crown again but it's absolutely certain that ATI R420XT will be the first next generation card in shops.

Nvidia and its partners desperately need this fuel possibly with Doom 3 as a rocket to launch it into RetailSpace.

Some more inkwell rumours to chew over

Original link here (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=14749)

[retsam]

holly smoke im about to have a veruka salt rant I WANT ONE NOOOOWWWWWW








RETS:afro2:

[MUYA]

Inkwell suggests that the R420 will be available first.

[nutball]

Hmmm. So NVIDIA get wind of ATI's plans and change their plans in a panic attempt to maintain a competitive edge? Sounds familiar.

I wonder if NVIDIA won't be eating it's future with this move. What's going to replace NV45 as the performance refresh in ... whenever it was supposed to come out, this time next year I suppose?

Will they have an NV45+ in development now?

[MUYA]

Originally posted by nutball
Hmmm. So NVIDIA get wind of ATI's plans and change their plans in a panic attempt to maintain a competitive edge? Sounds familiar.

I wonder if NVIDIA won't be eating it's future with this move. What's going to replace NV45 as the performance refresh in ... whenever it was supposed to come out, this time next year I suppose?

Will they have an NV45+ in development now?

the new NV45 will probably be manufactured on the 110nm process as it was original rumoured. Clockspeeds can probably be increased and maybe a lil tweaking here and there in the PS and VS engine.

[mikechai]

I think NV48 will replace the NV45 as a true refresh part.

[DMA]

Originally posted by nutball


I wonder if NVIDIA won't be eating it's future with this move.



My thoughts exactly.
Anyway, you gotta love this race. :dance:

[MUYA]

Originally posted by DMA
My thoughts exactly.
Anyway, you gotta love this race. :dance:

I don't see how it does? For the refresh of a Nv40 as it seem snow, a jump to 110nm will help them get more performance thru oncrease in clocks and of course new functionailities be added too and *probbaly* is being as we speak. So NV's future in terms of new GPU as a compelling refresh would have already been thought out by now.

[jbirney]

While thats all find and dandy...we still don't know if the NV4x have 16 REAL pipelines.....

[MUYA]

Originally posted by jbirney
While thats all find and dandy...we still don't know if the NV4x have 16 REAL pipelines.....

we don't know a lot of things really...these are speculations and aren't confirmed etc

[Soylent]

A lovely thing(but costly? At least transistor wise if nothing else) I really would like to see in this iteration is bilinear texture filtering with linear filtering between mip-maps(trilinear) being replaced with biqubic texture filtering and linear filtering between mip-maps.

It might not make things look any better when texture size increases but it would make current/older things with quite small textures look MUCH nicer up close.

[zakelwe]

As long as the delay is not like nv30.

To be honest it should not be as nv45 is a refrssh of nv40 whilst nv30 was a whole new thing.

nv48 in Q3 does seem logical now I guess, and if it is 0.11 then it should give the refresh style not-much-but-a-speed-bump type increase. Maybe a big bump though.


Regards

Andy

[MUYA]

Originally posted by zakelwe
As long as the delay is not like nv30.

To be honest it should not be as nv45 is a refrssh of nv40 whilst nv30 was a whole new thing.

nv48 in Q3 does seem logical now I guess, and if it is 0.11 then it should give the refresh style not-much-but-a-speed-bump type increase. Maybe a big bump though.


Regards

Andy

Refresh of NV40 may not appear until next year as NV40 has yet to make it to retail. ;) It will probably well into Q2 before NV40 is available in retail thru NV's AIB partner. So I doubt we will see refresh in q3, paper launch or not..maybe well into 2005 with NV and also ATI rumoured to be going 110nm for their products after the soon to be launched products.

[zakelwe]

Originally posted by MUYA
Refresh of NV40 may not appear until next year as NV40 has yet to make it to retail. ;) It will probably well into Q2 before NV40 is available in retail thru NV's AIB partner. So I doubt we will see refresh in q3, paper launch or not..maybe well into 2005 with NV and also ATI rumoured to be going 110nm for their products after the soon to be launched products.

Possibly.

But nv30 actually appeared on shelves in Feb and nv35 was being born in May .. so it may be that such a short pregnancy can be done again ? :)

Regards

Andy

[MUYA]

Originally posted by zakelwe
Possibly.

But nv30 actually appeared on shelves in Feb and nv35 was being born in May .. so it may be that such a short pregnancy can be done again ? :)

Regards

Andy

It could be done as u describe on the same maunfacturing process but with the example of NV30 (it took that long for NV to perfect their manufacturing problems when moving from 150nm to 130nm) and with the rumours of the refresh as it was before being moved to 110nm, that may cause the delay? :)

Get me drift mate? :D

[zakelwe]

Originally posted by MUYA
It could be done as u describe on the same maunfacturing process but with the example of NV30 (it took that long for NV to perfect their manufacturing problems when moving from 150nm to 130nm) and with the rumours of the refresh as it was before being moved to 110nm, that may cause the delay? :)

Get me drift mate? :D

Yeah true, and now nVidia has gone to IBM and then back to TSMC I bet one of the Taiwan guys spits on every wafer maked for nVidia .. LOL :D

So no doubt they might well have problems going to 0.11 !!!!

Regards

Andy

[MUYA]

Originally posted by zakelwe
Yeah true, and now nVidia has gone to IBM and then back to TSMC I bet one of the Taiwan guys spits on every wafer maked for nVidia .. LOL :D

So no doubt they might well have problems going to 0.11 !!!!

Regards

Andy

LOL I dun think TSMC aren't that petty, if anything they would want to make the 110nm move for NV all that rosy...ie to stick with them :D

[mikechai]

The NV40 will surely be using 130nm process.
Going straight to 110nm will delay the chip to at least August.

[MUYA]

Originally posted by mikechai
The NV40 will surely be using 130nm process.
Going straight to 110nm will delay the chip to at least August.

We are taking nv45 here mate ;) As it's possible that NV may use 110nm process for it.

[Geforce4ti4200]

whoa guys, let me get this strait. the r400 got cancaled, KIA, scrapped so ati made a 9800xt in the meantime using overclocked, overvolted 9800 pro cores to tide them over another 6 months? Now Nvidia is killing off their nv40! Is nvidia sitting it out this round so this means no challenger to the r420? Maybe Nvidia is gonna try to rush the nv45 out a month or two before ati's r450 so nvidia would win the crown for a month, yeah but miss out another 6 months!

[MUYA]

Originally posted by Geforce4ti4200
whoa guys, let me get this strait. the r400 got cancaled, KIA, scrapped so ati made a 9800xt in the meantime using overclocked, overvolted 9800 pro cores to tide them over another 6 months? Now Nvidia is killing off their nv40! Is nvidia sitting it out this round so this means no challenger to the r420? Maybe Nvidia is gonna try to rush the nv45 out a month or two before ati's r450 so nvidia would win the crown for a month, yeah but miss out another 6 months!

as Paul pointed out in the otehr thread and also been mentioned before, the timeframe right now-ish was the original dat/time frame for a nv45 launch

[Nv40]

a -REAL 16- pipelines Nv40 card ,with 210million transistors ,fullfeatured PS3.0 and that probably can do the 32x0 trick in Doom3 is not something that ATI can easily counteratack with a single "refresh"(in 6months)once the R420 is released.that is the case if ATI R420 is indeed a 12x1 card. you cant just add a huge chunk of PIpes ,and far more transistors in just a refresh. in theory its possible ,but its too risky for any company to consider something like that. just notice the diferences between.. R300->R350 and Nv30(125mtran)->NV35(130mtran) if you still have doubts about this. however the Nv35 was a remarkable step from the Nv30.. since its have a 256bit bus ... versus 128 of the Nv30.

with all this.. i suggest that if the Nv40 IF it is indeed the fastest card this ROund -all around- ,it will be the king in performance for the rest of the year.(and viceversa.) there is no way for ATI to completly redesign the R420 in just a refresh. (Nvidia only tweaked the NV35 and focused on their next BIg Nv4X since they saw they were behind with their Nv3x)

i dont buy the theory that Nvidia scrapped the "Nv40" at all..and "jumped" in the "Nv45" for me they -always- wanted what they are going to release soon for a very long time,since the last year.. but left their papers with the very old specs of the Nv40/Nv45) as a tactic of misinformation to ATI,(which seems worked for Nvidia very well,since it have been said many times that the R400 was scrapped because it was "too powerfull" againts the "NV40" ;) ) and if indeed the NV40 is a real 210million Trans.. chip (true 16 pipes) ,then its seems to me that ATI never intented to compete with something like that. :)

its very interesting scenario ,this time the fight is 12pipes vs 16 pipes card. :)
but pipes alone doesnt mean performance,same way a car engine doesnt means speed. it shows only the capacity and potential.and timing is crucial here.. because until the cards are released ,all is vaporware. too much delays,Broken features/hardware bugs/heat and power issues/buggy Drivers can effectively reduce the TRue potential of each company Video cards.

[MUYA]

who said the "original" nv40 isn't going to be released? Would make sense to have a 210 million transistor 16X1 Flagship GPU and a 175 million (IIRC what UTTAR posted) transistor 6X2 or 8X2 as the high end mainstream GPU? food for thought eh? ;)

:p

[Toaster]

Originally posted by MUYA
who said the "original" nv40 isn't going to be released? Would make sense to have a 210 million transistor 16X1 Flagship GPU and a 175 million (IIRC what UTTAR posted) transistor 6X2 or 8X2 as the high end mainstream GPU? food for thought eh? ;)

:p

But the 'nv45' will ( most likely ) also have arcitectual improvements over the old nv40 so an 8-piped nv45 needs less trannies/is faster than the original nv40. Might be cheaper to drop the old nv40 and just rip out some pipes of the nv45 for the mainstream parts.

[nForceMan]

Originally posted by nutball
I wonder if NVIDIA won't be eating it's future with this move.
NVIDIA is eating ATI's future with this move. :nutkick: