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Rollo
03-17-04, 02:13 PM
So I scratch my "upgrade itch" by purchasing an ABIT Siluro OTES 5800 Deluxe!
Should be arriving this week, out with the 9800 Pro, in with the 5800 Deluxe.
:afro:

I am anticipating stellar DX9 PS2 performance with the 5800, as well as faster performance. ;)

Actually, I'm only expecting a cool card to play around with till the nV40 and R420 arrive, then my four year old gets some 5800 lovin'.

Smokey
03-17-04, 02:18 PM
Damn some people are strange! I wouldnt feel the upgrade itch if I had a 9800pro :retard: Well have fun playing around with the legendary 5800 :D

saturnotaku
03-17-04, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by Rollo
So I scratch my "upgrade itch" by purchasing an ABIT Siluro OTES 5800 Deluxe!
Should be arriving this week, out with the 9800 Pro, in with the 5800 Deluxe.
:afro:

I am anticipating stellar DX9 PS2 performance with the 5800, as well as faster performance. ;)

Actually, I'm only expecting a cool card to play around with till the nV40 and R420 arrive, then my four year old gets some 5800 lovin'.

:screwy:

EMunEeE
03-17-04, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by Rollo
So I scratch my "upgrade itch" by purchasing an ABIT Siluro OTES 5800 Deluxe!
Should be arriving this week, out with the 9800 Pro, in with the 5800 Deluxe.
:afro:

I am anticipating stellar DX9 PS2 performance with the 5800, as well as faster performance. ;)

Actually, I'm only expecting a cool card to play around with till the nV40 and R420 arrive, then my four year old gets some 5800 lovin'.

:confused: :rolleyes: :confused: :rolleyes: :

jAkUp
03-17-04, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by Rollo
So I scratch my "upgrade itch" by purchasing an ABIT Siluro OTES 5800 Deluxe!
Should be arriving this week, out with the 9800 Pro, in with the 5800 Deluxe.
:afro:

I am anticipating stellar DX9 PS2 performance with the 5800, as well as faster performance. ;)

Actually, I'm only expecting a cool card to play around with till the nV40 and R420 arrive, then my four year old gets some 5800 lovin'.

Your kidding me.. I went the other way, from a 5800 ultra, to a 9800 pro. Trust me, you dont want to do this!!! Bad, bad idea...

cthellis
03-17-04, 04:35 PM
That's pretty screwy, man. You're not going to improve anything excepting perhaps your Quake 3 score with that shift. I'm hoping there's plenty of sarcasm in that wink. ;)

GlowStick
03-17-04, 05:15 PM
I woudlnt mind haveing a 5800 ultra!

I want to start collecting pc stuff heh. I gotta get orginal quake's first though!

ChrisRay
03-17-04, 05:24 PM
This post is obviously sarcastic gentlemen

saturnotaku
03-17-04, 05:30 PM
Originally posted by ChrisRay
This post is obviously sarcastic gentlemen

But I don't think he was kidding when he said bought the 5800. I pray I'm wrong, but still...

I say it again - :screwy:

ChrisRay
03-17-04, 05:45 PM
Originally posted by saturnotaku
But I don't think he was kidding when he said bought the 5800. I pray I'm wrong, but still...

I say it again - :screwy:


I wouldnt mind em all if I could afford multiple cards.


If I had my way I'd have an FX 5900 in one system and a 9800 in the other :)

Rollo
03-17-04, 08:03 PM
Right you are ChrisRay. My "better DX9 and faster performance" was indeed sarcastic, I bought the Abit because it's a really cool card and I'm getting bored with the 9800. I had a 5800NU before that I OCd to Ultra speeds, it was a nice card.
The Abit card has a lot more going for it: 2ns DDR2, all copper heatsinks, 2 heatpipes, quiet outside case fan exhaust, and LEDs in the fan.

http://www.nordichardware.com/reviews/graphiccard/2003/Abit_FX5800/

I'll be buying a nV40 or R420 when they come out, so what's the difference if I use a 5800 for a few months? I'll probably keep the 9800 Pro in my 4 year old's computer till then, so it's not like I'll be out anything.

ragejg
03-17-04, 08:25 PM
:thumbsup:

Rollo
03-17-04, 09:31 PM
I thought you might like this idea Rage. I remember your search for an Ultra not so long ago.
Although this isn't an Ultra, I've never heard of a 5800NU that wouldn't OC to Ultra speeds, and this one should be even easier than most as the RAM is rated for Ultra speed and the core has a better cooling system than any I've ever seen.

Gator
03-17-04, 10:17 PM
FX5800 :D

Congratulations on purchasing an over-priced, 128bit memory bus, overly noisy, overheating, blunder of a video card

Should have asked us all for advice first, we'd have recommended an FX5900XT ;)

walkndude
03-17-04, 10:35 PM
Seems some people need to look up, cuz something just went over...

I'm quite curious as to how the 5800@ultra speeds fairs against a 5900xt or se with the newest drivers and games in general. Seems you've got a cool little toy on the way to tide you over till r420/nv40 arrive. Good luck hitting 500/1000+ and keep us posted. :)

Rollo
03-17-04, 10:40 PM
Originally posted by Gator
FX5800 :D

Congratulations on purchasing an over-priced, 128bit memory bus, overly noisy, overheating, blunder of a video card

Should have asked us all for advice first, we'd have recommended an FX5900XT ;)

Errr, I'm going to ask a guy with a Ti4400 what card to buy? :confused:

In any case, you don't seem to be a good source of advice Gator:

"overly noisy"?
http://www.nordichardware.com/reviews/graphiccard/2003/Abit_FX5800/index.php?ez=2
The best about this cooling is that it is quiet.

"overheating"?
The cooling works very well and keeps the card cool.

"blunder of a video card"?
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1821&p=23
Hmmm 5800 beats the 9800 Pro at Doom3?

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1821&p=24
5800 on par with 9700Pro at UT2003, over TWICE as fast as Ti4600

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1821&p=26
Ruh roh. 5800 faster than 9700 Pro at JK2

Etc..

So let's see: I buy a rare video card that should perform on par with a 9700 Pro, and you think I should have asked you for advice? Meh.

If I was going to buy a 5900, I'd buy a 5950, not an XT. I will buy a top of line nV40 or R420 (whichever is better) when they come out, but for the next couple months I'm going to play with the 5800. Should I feel inconvenienced in some way by it, I can always trade my 4 year old back for the 9800 Pro. (he doesn't seem to care what he runs in his computer)

Rollo
03-17-04, 10:44 PM
I'm quite curious as to how the 5800@ultra speeds fairs against a 5900xt or se with the newest drivers and games in general. Seems you've got a cool little toy on the way to tide you over till r420/nv40 arrive. Good luck hitting 500/1000+ and keep us posted.

Thanks Walkn, I will. That is one tweaked 5800, and I've got a big slot fan to blow on it, I think I'm going to do Ultra speeds w/o the noise and have a pretty interesting setup. With my A64 3000+ pushing it, I don't think I'm going to notice huge differences unless I really crank the AA/AF.

SnakeEyes
03-17-04, 10:45 PM
Hate to burst your bubble, but any benchmarks showing a 5800 legitimately competitive with a 9700Pro were done incorrectly, used cheat drivers, were falsified, or a combination of any of the above.

And Gator's 4400 was probably the last high quality piece of hardware nVidia made. At least his aniso and AA both worked well for that generation without requiring cheats. For that matter, it's still better than any FX5200 and many other FX cards (definitely in the IQ department, thanks to the 'tweaks' nVidia introduced).

Still, enjoy your hot running video card. No matter whether you like all this free 'advice' or not, that 9800Pro is a much better product all around, and even the 9700Pro bitchslapped the 5800 in most things. :D

Gator
03-17-04, 10:45 PM
ok Rolo, whatever floats your boat, just remember the card was discontinued for a reason :rolleyes:. And you'll never sell me on the FX5800 out doing the FX5900, R9700, or R9800. All three are 256bit memory bus, and the image quality of the ATI cards puts yours to shame. Accept it.

And as for the TI4400, I havent had a need to really upgrade yet, I'm trying to wait for NV40 and with a lack of DX9 games available, theres no real need for me to upgrade at this time :p

Rollo
03-18-04, 12:04 AM
Hate to burst your bubble, but any benchmarks showing a 5800 legitimately competitive with a 9700Pro were done incorrectly, used cheat drivers, were falsified, or a combination of any of the above.

LOL- so speaks ......who?
:rolleyes:

And Gator's 4400 was probably the last high quality piece of hardware nVidia made. At least his aniso and AA both worked well for that generation without requiring cheats.
:confused: Of course, that generation's AA/AF was so slow it was almost totally unusable, so this almost makes sense.

Still, enjoy your hot running video card.
Of course, since it has copper heatsinks, OTES, and dual heatpipes it's probably cooler than whatever is in your box, but why should this make any more sense than the rest?

No matter whether you like all this free 'advice' or not, that 9800Pro is a much better product all around, and even the 9700Pro bitchslapped the 5800 in most things.
"Free" is all your advice is worth. When the 5800 came out, there were real problems with the drivers. They were fixed. There were some "cheat" drivers at some things, but you're on crack if you think every benchmark that shows a 5800 Ultra as competitive with a 9700 Pro is somehow faulty.

As Johnny Cochran would say, "Chewbacca is a wookie. Now why would a 7 foot wookie be living on Endor with little 3 foot Ewoks?! It doesn't make sense"

Neither does your argument. Know why?

Tell me, wise one, what are some of the key factors in video card performance? Fillrate and memory bandwidth up there among the big ones?

How does a 5800 Ultra compare to a 9700Pro in these areas? Let's see:
http://www20.tomshardware.com/graphic/20030127/geforce_fx-03.html
So you've got about 20% less memory bandwidth, and a higher fillrate with the 5800U.
Now, is it conceivable to that there are resolution/AA/AF settings that aren't limited by a memory bandwidth of 16GB/sec? Why wouldn't 5800Ultra performance be similar in these situations, barring another factor like weaker shader performance at DX9 PS2 shaders?

Your argument about the Ti line being the last high quality part nVidia made is totally weak.

The only area the 5900 line doesn't compete with the ATI 9700/9800s is DX9 PS2. How many of those games can I buy in the store? Oh yeah a couple are coming out now. The 5900s perform within 10-15% of their ATI counterparts on all the games that are out now, and you don't think that makes them quality parts?

I'd like to see what you do for a living. I bet you're not within 10% of the world leader in your profession like nVidia is. What most people forget is that being second best still makes you better than everyone else in the world, and that's not shabby. With your "logic" I'd guess you're not even second best in your school or firm.

ATI was second to nVidia for years, many more than they've been on top. It doesn't mean they weren't making a quality product.

People like you, with tunnel vision, miss out on a lot. Just having the best card there is gets boring. It's fun to try new hardware even if it's got a few more jaggies in the AA, or runs 15% slower.

For a place that's "partial to nVidia" there seems to be a lot of anti Nvidia sentiment here. :confused:
I can see why though- they didn't deliver on a DX9 card till there were some DX9 games to use it. It is a terrible crime.:rolleyes:

Rollo
03-18-04, 12:10 AM
All three are 256bit memory bus, and the image quality of the ATI cards puts yours to shame. Accept it.

Of course, since I own a 9800 Pro, I can see that "image quality " any time I want, so this isn't really much of an issue. Besides the fact that many reviews have stated ATI and nVidias IQ is pretty comparable these days.

BTW- I bought the 9700 Pro the month it came out, I bought the 9800 Pro the month it came out. I also owned a MSI 5800 last year.

Of the two of us, one of us is in a MUCH better position to talk about current ATI vs nVidia IQ. I've got a lot of months of looking at ATI behind me. You're basing your comments on other people's opinions. I've used a 5800 at 500/1000 before, I have a pretty good idea how they look and perform.

ragejg
03-18-04, 12:30 AM
Those that make the overtly overcooked negative comments should really realize that though it makes their epen0s bigger, it swells the brain... and too much brain swelling can cause an embolism... be careful, guys...

"Let's bag on teh nv30!!"
"Let's bag on teh nv30!!"
"Let's bag on teh nv30!!"
"Let's bag on teh nv30!!"

jebus... :rolleyes:

LEGITIMATE reviews have shown the performance increases... Get over the old 5800 vs 9700P battle waged long ago... what about now?

//this coming from an owner of a 5900XT, with a 9700 flashed to pro *happily* on it's way for the secondary system//

jAkUp
03-18-04, 01:21 AM
Originally posted by Rollo
For a place that's "partial to nVidia" there seems to be a lot of anti Nvidia sentiment here. :confused:
I can see why though- they didn't deliver on a DX9 card till there were some DX9 games to use it. It is a terrible crime.:rolleyes:

How about TWIMTBP games running better and looking better on competitors hardware??? Cheating drivers??? Overhyping underperforming cards??? The whole 3DMark fiasco??? Claming its a DX9 card when really its a DX8 card, making it extremely difficult for producers to code with this card???... I even witnessed Dawn, running smoother on my buddys 9700 pro!! That is unacceptable.
And yes, there are even a few games that use DX9 features, that are all DISABLED on nVidia hardware:

Star Wars Galaxies
Far Cry---> TWIMTBP Game
Tomb Raider
Colin Mcrae----> TWIMTBP Game
Not to mention a few HUGE games coming out.

Yes, the 5800 Ultra is a decent card. I should know, I had one. Just dont expect to get any higher AA than 2X. And I even had a 5900. Oh yea, those cards had a high failure rate also. Mine died, and I even had a fan on its backplate.

Since I have personally experienced a 5800 Ultra, a 5900, and a 9800 Pro.
And not to mention the 5950FX, and ATI 9800XT cards I play with on demo machines at work, I think my judgement is fair.

My 5800 Ultra, or even my 5900 is sooo inferior to my current 9800 Pro, I'm pissed at myself for once being an nVidiot. And trust me, I will happily go back to nVidia if they have something high end thats worth buying. Although I still think a 5900SE is one of the best budget card ever, I would never suggest a 5950 over a 9800XT.

I work at a retail computer store, even the n00bs know that most of nVidia's products are inferior to ATI's. I have sold probably over 60 9800XT or 9800 pros... I have sold maybe 3 5900, or 5950 cards.

EMunEeE
03-18-04, 01:36 AM
Originally posted by Rollo


For a place that's "partial to nVidia" there seems to be a lot of anti Nvidia sentiment here. :confused:
I can see why though- they didn't deliver on a DX9 card till there were some DX9 games to use it. It is a terrible crime.:rolleyes:

NVidia did it to themselves. There would be a lot of anti ATI sentiment at Rage3D (well some) if ATI cheated in drivers, dragged down IQ regardless of users preference, dismal PS 2.0 performance, overhyped and overheated cards, unethical marketing tactics and unclassy behavior of its public employees, TWIMTBP, the whole Futuremark situation. NVidia has burned quite a few bridges.

I'm happy for you that your happy for your 5800U. But the fact is that the Radeon 9700/9800 are totally superior cards, so stop pimping your card likes its the best, thats called ignorance.

Have a nice day! :)

zakelwe
03-18-04, 02:20 AM
It's different horses for different courses , which means I agree with both Gator and Rollo .

Since my own GF4 4400 ( very good card, clocked out of the box to more than 4600ti standard when released ) I have started to collect nvidia graphics cards ( while waiting for mv30 which turned out tobe a wait for nv40 ;) ) and would now say that Gator's GF4 4400 -> nv40 should be a very good ploy ..massive notcieable jump in performance.

However I also think that both 5800 and 5800 are a good choice as well if you want something that is not as quick but is built like a tank, has a bit of character and is a lot different. Sort of like a big Bentley, rather than the fastest Porsche / Ferrari.

My own 5800 came after the 5600U and 5700U. The 5600 was worse than the GF4 4400 ( looking back how could nvidia release that card at such a price ? ) and the 5700U was better, but not very much better than the 4400. The 5800 came along and the gpu actually gave me a big jump in useable performance. And I can here it spinning up and on start up ( hey they through in a way to show you your fan was working without crawling on hands and knees under the table .. ) so has a bit of character.

It is only a 128bit bus but at 1Ghz DDR speed it runs ( very hot ! ) without too much difficulty.

If I just had to buy one card then it would not be it, but as part of a collection it deos stand out from the crowd. Which reminds me, must go and polish it again this sunday ....

Regards

Andy

PS Xbit just did a nice review of video cards .. the 5900XT is such a good bargain .. what a great card.