R420 clockspeeds

[DSC]

http://www.withingames.net/?show=articles&type=showarticle&id=83&site=7

After passing it through the magic of Babelfish, this is what we get:

For the conclusion of our CeBIT reporting of this year report we again on the most interesting rumors, which we snapped open in the course of the four days:
- the NV40-Architektur (16x1 for textures/farbwerte, 32x0 for z-values) was meanwhile already confirmed now by that x-to ten source. The chip is to become trueful gigantic.
- the NV40 will be faster than the R420. One can assume the R420 between 15% and 5% than its contractor from the house NVIDIA is slower.
- it will give two models of the R420: A pro map with 500Mhz chip and 475Mhz storing act and one?Nitro? map mentioned with 600Mhz chip and 550Mhz storing act.
- it is very probable that the R423 will have actually 16 pipelines, while the R420 with their 12 comes along. Possibly it concerns also the same chips with those dependent on the quality 4 pipelines (a Quad block) to deactivate itself or not.
- the R420 is as further R300-Refresh as well known a temporary solution. Accordingly ATi wants to rely all too no longer for a long time on architecture and bring soon the R500, whose development status progressed allegedly already very far. With the development of the R500 one can besides strongly on the support of Microsoft relies, since the technology is to be inserted use any form in the Xbox2.

Now if someone has better German language skills and would like to do a better translation.....

[Wenzula]

I still have some more stuff for you guys. Most of it has been confirmed by other sites like the inquirer, ect.

nv40

- the chip will be feature 32 bit throughout the pipe without loss of speed
- first test with half-life 2 showed that the chip is going to be 2 - 7 times faster than the geforce fx 5950
- the chip will feature RGAA
- the chip will need more power, but will use a single slot solution, as we were told

[Evildeus]

Really? :wtf:

[Wenzula]

we heard this form several soruces and part of the nv40 stuff directly from nvidia...

[Evildeus]

Oh, thanks for the information :)

[Wenzula]

no problem...

nvidia really changed their information-policy, while ati blocked nearly everything...

[Joe DeFuria]

no problem...

nvidia really changed their information-policy, while ati blocked nearly everything...

??

That seems to be the way it's always been: Lots of leaks and "unofficial" info coming from the nVidia side pre launch, while ATI remains pretty tight lipped.

Thanks for sharing the info though! ;)

[silence]

we heard this form several soruces and part of the nv40 stuff directly from nvidia...


as long as it's directly from Nvidia... that's reliable source.... did they also ask you -> "Are You Ready?"

[Evildeus]

Oh another questions: Did you actually see the NV40? Running? What was your general impression? :) Thanks

[Wenzula]

yeah, but the years before nvidia never comment on "comming" products, but hte nv30 debacle seems to changed much....

i still have something to the launch date of the nv40:

we all know that nvidia will launch the new chip at 13th April, but not a lot know, that nvidia first planed to launch it at cebit... I think that you will suggest, that a hardware problem changed the date, but you are wrong. nVIDIA told us, that the software wasn't ready for cebit and so they decided to skip their announcement.

[Wenzula]

No, we did not see a running demo of the chip, because nvidia would not let us sign a nda. Although we were told, that the chips were no longer there. For you info, we have been at nvidia on sunday.

But our really reliable "sources" told us, that they had a running system at their booth. Our Sources, although the AIBs (both from nvidia and ati) told us that they expect the nv40 to be ahead of the r420.

[Evildeus]

Thanks for that bit of information ;)

[Wenzula]

@Evildeus: We although got the impression that if nvidia wants to beat ati, they can do it. If you look back at the nv30 and when it was designed (back in 2000). At this time nvidia did not had a real competitor and so they design the nv30 relatively conservative, because they did not fear anyone. But as ATi released the r300 nvidia was shocked, that is why they clocked the chip at 500 MHz and used the flow fx. The situation with the nv40 is slightly different. nVIDIA now know how stong ati is and that they have to use all their man-power instead half of it.

[bkswaney]

@Evildeus: We although got the impression that if nvidia wants to beat ati, they can do it. If you look back at the nv30 and when it was designed (back in 2000). At this time nvidia did not had a real competitor and so they design the nv30 relatively conservative, because they did not fear anyone. But as ATi released the r300 nvidia was shocked, that is why they clocked the chip at 500 MHz and used the flow fx. The situation with the nv40 is slightly different. nVIDIA now know how stong ati is and that they have to use all their man-power instead half of it.


I agree... Nvidia knows ATI can and will kick out d@mn fast cards now.
I just hope nvidia did not under estimate ati again and think the R420
would be a 8 pipe card again.
When they found out they had to use the PS3.0 unit to try and
make up ground because of there's is only 8 pipe from what I was
reading today.

[Evildeus]

Yeah, you are right. Thank you very much for these informations :)

[Wenzula]

I nearly forgot to mention, that nvidia has a new way to messure the power consumption. They use mpixel per watt.

[Wenzula]

Hmm, i read the Inq's story too, about the 8x2 pipelines and the 8 virtual pipelines with ps 3.0. I just can tell you what we have heard. 16x1 for texture/color and 32x0 for z-operations. I do not know if nvidia understimated ati but if we are right the r420 will just be a wider r350 (12 instead of 8 pipes) and some minor tweaks and high clock speeds.

But the inq. is right, when they say that the ps and vs 3.0 will bring further improvements.

[Geforce4ti4200]

"it will give two models of the R420: A pro map with 500Mhz chip and 475Mhz storing act and one?Nitro? map mentioned with 600Mhz chip and 550Mhz storing act."


Is this more speculation or estimates of the clock speeds or is it what their final r420s will come at? I was like wha? omg 600MHz! would ati have any real yields at such stratoscopic clock speeds? could it be their quick response to the nv40's 16 pipes? 475/1200 at 16 pipes will only have about 5% more fill rate than 600/1100 and if you overclock to 633/1200 it would be equal. could the 600MHz parts be saved for the r450 refresh at the end of 2004? If not what will ati be left with?

[Wenzula]

@GeForce4ti4600:all i can say about the clockspeeds of the r420 is, that they are not far away from the truth according to what i have heard. But it can also be, that i am totally wrong. It also depends in how good the yields are. But if ati will compete with nvidia, they have to clock their version dramatically high. One thing i cannot forsee is the r423. This chip will not just be a "pci express version of the r420" but will bring some changes. Maybe clockspeeds or even desgin-changes (perhaps 16 pipes). But this is something i do not know for sure.

[GalaxyFX]

I cannot wait until the first benchies will be published. Very exiting times indeed

[Geforce4ti4200]

if nvidia's core is not 16 real pipes like:

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=26378

then ati could clock theirs at 400MHz and still own nvidia

[StealthHawk]

I still have some more stuff for you guys. Most of it has been confirmed by other sites like the inquirer, ect.

nv40

- the chip will be feature 32 bit throughout the pipe without loss of speed

So what pixel shader precisions does NV40 support besides FP32? "32bit throughout the pipe without loss of speed" implies that it supports multiple precisions, as that is a comparative clause. However, if FP32 runs "without loss of speed" it seems rather redundant to have support for, say FP16 in hardware too.

[bkswaney]

if nvidia's core is not 16 real pipes like:

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=26378

then ati could clock theirs at 400MHz and still own nvidia


Not really. The 12 pipe 420 will only be about 30% faster than the 9800XT is now.
Do the math. Even clocked at 500Mhz core.

[Geforce4ti4200]

that makes no sense dude. the 9800xt is only 8 pipes. at the same clocks itll be 50% faster then we have higher clocks on top of that. ati has already said itll be double the speed of a 9700 pro

[lokeshray]

we all knw how ati n nvidia love to mess up each other's production cycles.

allow me to speclate on ATI's strategy:-
1) release r420 with 12 pipes..the core has 16 pipes, but ATI still need a month or two to be satisfied with the yields and reliability of 16 pipes as well as the clock speed possibilities. so, no doubt the core has 16 pipes, ATI still is not comfortable about it and lets it remain as 12 pipes
2)ATI knws that nv40 is delayed, they can release the r420 and maintain a hefty performance lead till the time nv40 comes out
3) within a month after release of nv40, ATI releases r423, since r423 has 16 pipes, as opposed to r420 it will give many ppl a reaspn to make the transition to pci express.. if r420 is 16 pipes, then many people will be hesitant to make the transition to the pci express variant r423.
4)the r420 core will go through a few more revisions before it becomes r423 with 16 pipes, and basically, ATI IS READY WITH PCI EXPRESS, so they are waiting for r423 to be ready.
5)by the time nv40 with 16 pipes(?) is released, ATI has r423 ready, prolly half life 2 will be ready, this will allow ATI to mess up with nvidias production cycle.

the combination of 16 pipes with half life 2 should allow ATI to really push a high end PCI EXPRESS graphics card. plus, motherboards based on pci express should be widely available.

i also wonder, why is nvidia taking sooooo long to develop drivers for nv40.
is it because they have to make the vertex or pixel shader work as a pipeline, and tis taking awefully long to implement that?