UT: The POWER of NV30 ( LoL )

[pelly]

I couldn't resist that title....

All kidding aside, who knows what any of this means...It is all a rumor and nobody knows for sure what it would mean if it was true...

Regardless, here's where it all started:

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2731

Ultra High detail mode:
If you look in the diagram options of Unreal Tournament 2003, then the detail degree "high" will only encounter as top. The "Ultra High detail" mode, like it the developers ensure, would be on current cards a call for Choppy-orgies and are not implemented therefore in the game - not yet. According to Epic´s Mark Rein the mode will come with a patch delivered subsequently as soon as Nvidia's new NV30 appears.

Looks like November will reveal all sorts of nifty information... :D

[DadGT]

Not knowing too much about UT2K3, I may just speak out of my ass here. But IIRC, UT2K3 uses quite a bit of shader processing that appears to be somewhat dependent on hardware (aka, it knows when to use shaders and when not to). Could it be that the soon-to-be infamous "Ultra High Detail" setting makes use of shader commands and behaviors (dynamic branching???) that really are only on the NV30? That would make some sense as it seems UT2K3 already senses shader states so NV giving Epic some money to add specific feature shaders to replace some effects would be an easy way to show off the power of the NV30 in a real game.

[Uttar]

Originally posted by DadGT
Not knowing too much about UT2K3, I may just speak out of my ass here. But IIRC, UT2K3 uses quite a bit of shader processing that appears to be somewhat dependent on hardware (aka, it knows when to use shaders and when not to). Could it be that the soon-to-be infamous "Ultra High Detail" setting makes use of shader commands and behaviors (dynamic branching???) that really are only on the NV30? That would make some sense as it seems UT2K3 already senses shader states so NV giving Epic some money to add specific feature shaders to replace some effects would be an easy way to show off the power of the NV30 in a real game.

An easy way to make people saying the NV30 power won't be used for years shut their big mouth :P

But then again, we can't be sure.

I'm betting on dynamic branching.


Uttar

[StealthHawk]

where are shaders used in UT2003. just curious

[DadGT]

Originally posted by StealthHawk
where are shaders used in UT2003. just curious

I have no idea. My information about UT2K3 having them was off This ATI website (http://www.ati.com/playati/gamemaker/ut2003/) saying that it used them to make really cool effects. Of course, the Epic developer asks for "more pixel shader instructions."

Over in the Beyond3D forum, there is now a growing thread that puts into doubt if shaders have even been turned on at all in UT2K3.

[Bigus Dickus]

Originally posted by Uttar
I'm betting on dynamic branching.

According to Daniel Vogel, it's simply a matter of looking for a 256 MB video card before initializing the Ultra High Res textures. An edit to the .ini and a flush of the engine enables them for other cards as well. Nothing to see here, please move along. From your posts, I'm starting to wonder if dynamic branching is the holy grail of video cards.

Stealthhawk, I had thought the pixel shaders in UT2003 were used for the odd water or lighting effect, but some of the B3D members claim they are for speed optimizations only in terrain rendering. Sounds plausible enough I guess.

[Bigus Dickus]

Vogel has posted some comments at Rage3D (http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33640750&perpage=20&pagenumber=2) addressing this issue. It seems even I was a bit off. The edit to the .ini file only changes the default texture setting as detected by the game code. As of now, it only defaults to the highest setting for 256MB cards. Manually setting it to Ultra High in the menu should, apparently, work fine for any card. I suspect that reports of no texture difference is simply because most maps have no difference between the top two levels. Just my suspicion though.

[DadGT]

The comments by Vogel at Rage3D are interesting. But it seems to me a slight amount of misdirection. He never debunks the idea of a special patch when NV30 is released. All he states is that there is nothing on the CD that can not be gotten to. Seems to me a very clever way of calming the Rage3D people (why didn't he post on Beyond3D which started the topic). He is really being specific with regard to texture support which was a semi-speculation part of the post.

If there is a NV30 patch, I am impressed by his ability with that misdirection post.

[Bigus Dickus]

Originally posted by DadGT
Seems to me a very clever way of calming the Rage3D people (why didn't he post on Beyond3D which started the topic).

So you're calling him a liar? Besides, he did post on Beyond3D...

[StealthHawk]

Originally posted by Bigus Dickus
Stealthhawk, I had thought the pixel shaders in UT2003 were used for the odd water or lighting effect, but some of the B3D members claim they are for speed optimizations only in terrain rendering. Sounds plausible enough I guess.

i thought so too when i had the um, "special" version. however, once the demo came out, people with GF2s also said that they had the same water effect. so i suspect the water is just a cubemap or something.

[DadGT]

Originally posted by Bigus Dickus


So you're calling him a liar? Besides, he did post on Beyond3D...

I never called him a liar. He posted no false statements. Only statements answering a specific portion of the question without answering the general scope. In this case he dismisses the texture size question but says nothing about a patch for NV30 and what it might change.

I said misdirection, not lying. Subtle differences, but important.

And who did he post as on Beyond3D?

[ragejg]

Could the 256mb theory be tested on a high end Quadro card? Isn't there a Quadro variant sporting 256mb?

If not, I'm sure there's some other DX8 "Pro" card with 256 mb that this could be tested on.

[Bigus Dickus]

Originally posted by DadGT
And who did he post as on Beyond3D?

Um... how about as vogel (http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2731&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20). ;)

[DadGT]

Originally posted by Bigus Dickus


Um... how about as vogel (http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2731&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20). ;)

Missed that. My bad.

[borntosoul]

the graphics on ut 2003 r nothing special anyway ,i was expecting much better , doom3 is what im waiting for ,there i feel much better now after reading all that crap that was posted before :) asbestos flame suit on , oups forgot my hat

[Uttar]

Agreed, UT 2003 graphics aren't so special. I'd say they are good, but really, nothing revolutionary.

But keep in mind Unreal 2 is what's supposed to have good graphics - not UT 2003.


BTW, where the heck did all that "ultra high textures" crap came from? The only quotes we got refer to the graphics quality, not the textures quality! Pfff... Talk about inventing things.

[SnakeEyes]

I don't usually kill off the background apps. Er, check that. I didn't. I do for UT2003 though. Anything to keep that minimum framerate as high as possible.. :p

[SavagePaladin]

try opengl...the stuttering is much less on it for some reason

I think the UT2003 graphics are flat out great, excepting that d3d mode seems to run wierd on my system (mass stuttering - gf3ti200+256 megs RAM)
___
of course they aren't perfect, though. It's a deathmatch game, speed is slightly more important than masses of eye candy.

NOLF 2 looks sweet

[gstanford]

According to a poster on another board, the secret lies in a new texture compression mode - NVS5 (which has been in existance but not publiclly documented since the Geforce2 apparently)

The reference NV30 only has 128 MB of memory. The NVS5 64 bit compressed texture support is what makes the difference.

So what this means is that NV30 can fit more detailed textures into a given amount of memory than ATI and other competitors can. In regard to UT2K3 it should mean that NV30 owners will only require a 128mb card to run ultra high detail whereas ATI owners would need a card with 256mb present.

http://66.96.254.245/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=025005 (thread link)
I was the topic starter BTW, and I don't know Ring Wraith's credentials on what he says, but it does seem to make a lot of sense.

Greg

[volt]

"the UT2k3 NV30 super-ultra-mega-gargantuan-high detail mode is fake"

[StealthHawk]

rumors spawn even more ludicrous rumors. i love it :D

[The Baron]

Originally posted by volt
"the UT2k3 NV30 super-ultra-mega-gargantuan-high detail mode is fake"

don'tcha love IRC? :p it just brings those things right out of you ;)

[volt]

yea, plus you get everything exclusively haha