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svetli_pp
04-15-04, 11:14 AM
First I have to say I'm not ATI fan, I've always had NVidia cards and now 5900XT. But the similarities between NV30 and NV40 launches are too much that I can't refrain to shed some dark tones upon the exaltation going around. First lets face the facts.
1. NVidia creates enormous fuss about the grate new card almost 2 months before its real availability. I see it as marketing trick in NVidia style again. Surely ATI could also spread 100 pieces of their R420 at this moment but they announce their products immediately before they are at the market.
2. Undoubtedly 6800Ultra is a fast card, but it bears DX9 unsufficiency like its predecessor NV3X. In all reviews I've read the new card is about twice fast in every game with the exception of FarCry where it beats Ati9800XT with just 15%. With doubled pipelines it is ridiculous and comes to show that when Ati gets their pipelines to 16 in R420 it will bury down NV40 in every DX9 current and future title. BTW every review mentioned bad IQ in farcry which I suppose is due to intentional driver settings allowing NVidia to have margin at all. Here I think it's important to say again that I AM NOT ATI FANBOY!
3. NVidia is braging they have support for all the new stuff in DX9c that is PS and VS 3.0. It resembles the situation when NV3X even surpassed DX9 specification. And after real DX9 games come around it becomes clear that NV35 can't even run standard DX9 code at playable speed not to talk PS2.0+ and VS2.0+. I haven't seen more than one real DX9 game and Microsoft releases DX9c which mainly differs in the way the code is written not in effects that could be produced in games. I even wonder how NVidia do not support something higher than DX9c:)
4. When Ati releases R420 acording to current info it will sport 16 pipelines and is not clear whether it will fully support PS3.0 or PS2.X. But with the heritage of R300 and doubling its power I am really sad to see ATI as a winner.

And finally I could bet R420 score in 3dmark2003 will be above 15000 and games like farcry will finally become playable at high resolutions with AA and AF which is pittily not the fact with NV40.
I know what I've written will be called biased oppinion but it's only my oppinion right.

theultimo
04-15-04, 11:16 AM
4. When Ati releases R420 acording to current info it will sport 16 pipelines and is not clear whether it will fully support PS3.0 or PS2.X. But with the heritage of R300 and doubling its power I am really sad to see ATI as a winner.


Well the 420 has 12, the 450 has 16. only FP24 rendering, so no ps 3.0.

Paul
04-15-04, 11:25 AM
Thanks for your well thought out and researched arguments.

Far Cry: Double and Treble (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/nv40_31.html) the R360, and again doubles (http://www20.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040414/geforce_6800-42.html) performance on one of the benchmarks.

Your optimisation point is baseless, since we do not know if the NV40 needs the NV3x FC optimisations or not. It's more than possible it's just a left over from the NV3x series, rather than them forcing it for NV4x too.

Your 3DMark number is made up.

Your other points are similarly stupid. Another thread full of nothing in particular. Great.

Blacklash
04-15-04, 12:00 PM
One post wonders, opps make that two post wonders, are usually nonsense, especialy around this time. Of course people are entitled to their opinions ,but the number of people registering just to troll a NVIDIA FAN site is getting deep. For the Nth time, I fully expect Ati to release a sound card worthy of investment and at least equal to the NV40. Relax guys, seriously.

stncttr908
04-15-04, 12:05 PM
Your facts have been disproven, and your spelling was so bad I had to stop and re-read many things. Move along.

I'm waiting for reviews.

svetli_pp
04-15-04, 12:23 PM
If u return to read it again is not because the spelling I'm sure. Sorry for writing sentences longer than 3 words( NVidia rules, NVidia is wonderfull etc.) I've mentioned that I'm NV fan too, but it does not make me close my eyes and not see that ATI's cards are better performers in DX9 games. I hope this trend will not be spread in this next gen cards also.

Mr.Clawz950
04-15-04, 12:23 PM
I don't say a whole heck of a lot around here, but I have to say Paul hit the nail on the head. This kind of useless one post wonder crap is a waste of forum space. I shouldn't even have clicked this thread, because now I feel cheated. svetli_pp, can I have 5 minutes of my life back now ?

*Sigh*

EDIT - Make that 4 post wonder. All of them being equally stupid and pointless.

stncttr908
04-15-04, 12:27 PM
If u return to read it again is not because the spelling I'm sure. Sorry for writing sentences longer than 3 words( NVidia rules, NVidia is wonderfull etc.)I'm a fan of whomever puts out the better card. Your points, as of now, are merely speculation. Wait for the card's introduction and maybe you'll have a point.

Diamond_G
04-15-04, 12:29 PM
If I may interject, what everyone is pointing out is that nVidia has fixed (for the most part) their 2.0 problems.... NV40 arcitechture (spelling??) is completly different than on NV30...

The main reason Farcry benches seemed low was due to the card being found as a NV3X... something to do with the drivers and the game version.....

hovz
04-15-04, 12:34 PM
Thanks for your well thought out and researched arguments.

Far Cry: Double and Treble (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/nv40_31.html) the R360, and again doubles (http://www20.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040414/geforce_6800-42.html) performance on one of the benchmarks.

Your optimisation point is baseless, since we do not know if the NV40 needs the NV3x FC optimisations or not. It's more than possible it's just a left over from the NV3x series, rather than them forcing it for NV4x too.

Your 3DMark number is made up.

Your other points are similarly stupid. Another thread full of nothing in particular. Great.

those benches are worthless because nvidias drivers arent rendering pixel shaders properly.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=2023&p=17

those are the proper scores

fivefeet8
04-15-04, 12:37 PM
those benches are worthless because nvidias drivers arent rendering pixel shaders properly.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=2023&p=17

those are the proper scores

Those aren't the proper scores either then since they are with Beta Drivers and the Nv40 is detected as an Nv3x.

Richteralan
04-15-04, 12:42 PM
If u return to read it again is not because the spelling I'm sure. Sorry for writing sentences longer than 3 words( NVidia rules, NVidia is wonderfull etc.) I've mentioned that I'm NV fan too, but it does not make me close my eyes and not see that ATI's cards are better performers in DX9 games. I hope this trend will not be spread in this next gen cards also.

It is obvious YOU are the fanboy, not us. :lame:
What is the trend? Why you don't want people think nvidia did a good job this time? :lame:

MUYA
04-15-04, 12:43 PM
I can see this thread going downhill too.

Richteralan
04-15-04, 12:44 PM
yes MUYA, lock this thread or delete it. Thanks!

MUYA
04-15-04, 12:45 PM
Locked