R420 is looking quite good now...

[Ninja Prime]

Since this appears to be solid info. (http://www.theregister.com/2004/04/15/ati_r420/)

Just using simple calculations and not taking into account any unknown factors, it would appear R420 will be a faster card and a better value than the Geforce 6800.

500 mhz and 12 pipes on the X800 Pro, which = 6000 megapixel fillrate, for $100 less and a single slot, no new powersupply design. Compared to 400 mhz and 16 pipes for 6400 megapixels from the Geforce 6800 Ultra... thats only a 6% difference for $100 less, and an extra slot, and you don't need a new powersupply.

Not to mention, for those who really want the $500 uber card, the X800 XT is expected to be 600 mhz and 16 pipes or 9600 megapixel, that's 50% faster than the Geforce 6800 Ultra, for the same price. Even if the 16 pipe rumor turns out to be wrong, and the XT is only 12 pipes, the X800 XT will still be 7200 megapixels, still 20% faster than the Geforce 6800 Ultra, for the same price.

I'm thinking Nvidia may have made another mistake, going for a massive chip with lots of features that won't be used much for a long time, instead of a faster chip for today, but we will see when the X800 is truly revealed.

My best guess is that the X800 XT is going to win in everything except Doom 3 and maybe some Quake 3 engine games. The X800 Pro will almost match the Geforce 6800 Ultra in all but those games, for $100 less. Not looking so good for Nvidia, but we'll find out on April 26th... can't wait. ;)

[Sazar]

I don't recall too many people saying its going to be a bad card... however how good or not so good it is is still up in the air :)

another few more days for speculation and then miraculously all shall be revealed..

[GlowStick]

We dont know much about r420s preformance, just some leaked specs.

However i dont think ATi will have an easy time winning this round.

It seems to me that NV40 still has a ton of shader power left in it, mainly from the beta hl2 test though, the high resoltuions just dont phase it at all.

However, i do feel that nvidia can make the nv40 run at 475mhz or even 500mhz if nvidia gets despriate, so i wouldnt be suprized if the x800 XT beats the nv40 a sudden and quick refresh of the same thing, however larger cooler higher clocks and faster memory.

[Sazar]

it seems ati should be able to keep their clocks higher for 2 reasons... lower tranny count and low-k dielectric material...

all else being relatively equal if this is the case there is going to be a level playing field :)

[PreservedSwine]

Not sure how all this works, will not supporting PS3.0 make it faster (transistor dedication)?

[ragejg]

PreservedSwine, you should edit your sig... aren't 8 pipes basically a pipe dream in this new age? :p:p

[Sazar]

PreservedSwine, you should edit your sig... aren't 8 pipes basically a pipe dream in this new age? :p:p

well till they retail... his sig is kinda still valid :cool:

even ifs a bit of a stretch :D

[AthlonXP1800]

X800 XT is looking quite good to target 6800 Ultra at $499, we have to wait and see how well it go against it. But X800 Pro and SE does not look good target 6800 Non Ultra, X800 Pro will cost $399 and X800 SE for $299 with 128bit bus both will have a very hard time to compete with 6800 Non Ultra at very attractive price of $299 with all new features included PS & VS 3.0. In Geforce 6800 interview at Gamers Depot, 6800 Ultra card is much cooler than 5950 Ultra, that mean it will have lots of headroom for overclocking so it looked like these 3 R420 had been already tweaked to overclocked with 450, 500 and 600MHz, there wont be much headroom for overclocking.

[volkskrant]

X800 XT is looking quite good to target 6800 Ultra at $499, we have to wait and see how well it go against it. But X800 Pro and SE does not look good target 6800 Non Ultra, X800 Pro will cost $399 and X800 SE for $299 with 128bit bus both will have a very hard time to compete with 6800 Non Ultra at very attractive price of $299 with all new features included PS & VS 3.0. In Geforce 6800 interview at Gamers Depot, 6800 Ultra card is much cooler than 5950 Ultra, that mean it will have lots of headroom for overclocking so it looked like these 3 R420 had been already tweaked to overclocked with 450, 500 and 600MHz, there wont be much headroom for overclocking.

The X800pro will probably not overclock much, bit will perform quite a bit better than the 6800 non Ultra (assuming the non ultra will be a 12 pipes card). And as Ati uses low-k to reach the rumored 600Mhz it seems not likely that the 6800 non ultra (which does not use low-k) will overclock to similar performance.

Hence, some rumors even pitch the 12 pipe X800Pro against the 16 pipe 6800Ultra. Though I think we should take this rumor wiith a pintch of salt.

[Dazz]

Well ones things for sure if ATi still use their FSAA it will easly overtake nVIDIA and their 8x FSAA which is very slow and compairable to 6x. NV sticking to MS & SS is a mistake IMO.

[PreservedSwine]

PreservedSwine, you should edit your sig... aren't 8 pipes basically a pipe dream in this new age? :p:p


Good point, I'll change it soon :)

[jbirney]

X800 XT is looking quite good to target 6800 Ultra at $499, we have to wait and see how well it go against it. But X800 Pro and SE does not look good target 6800 Non Ultra, X800 Pro will cost $399 and X800 SE for $299 with 128bit bus both will have a very hard time to compete with 6800 Non Ultra at very attractive price of $299 with all new features included PS & VS 3.0. In Geforce 6800 interview at Gamers Depot, 6800 Ultra card is much cooler than 5950 Ultra, that mean it will have lots of headroom for overclocking so it looked like these 3 R420 had been already tweaked to overclocked with 450, 500 and 600MHz, there wont be much headroom for overclocking.

Brent form HardOCP said in a forum post that those numbers and prices for the ATI cards are wrong. The price for the SE is much lower but he would not give any more info...something about an NDA. I also think you favorism of NV is clouding your judgement AthlonXP1800 as the 9600XT were terrific over clockers. You have really no idea how well or bad they will be at over clocking the R420 cores. Remember how well ATI did with the old .15 micron process getting their speed up. My point is it too early to tell the weakness of a card we know nothing about....

[bpt8056]

Looking at the numbers, it seems doubtful that the X800 XT will hit 600 MHz. I mean, doesn't it seem more logical that a chip with 12 pipelines probably has better yields over 16 pipelines, thus having better success in running at higher clock speed? Since the 12 and 16 pipeline versions are basically the same chip, it just struck me a little odd if this is the case. If that is what ATi is doing, then the X800 Pro could have a lot of overclocking headroom.

[{Sniping}Waste]

Looking at the numbers, it seems doubtful that the X800 XT will hit 600 MHz. I mean, doesn't it seem more logical that a chip with 12 pipelines probably has better yields over 16 pipelines, thus having better success in running at higher clock speed? Since the 12 and 16 pipeline versions are basically the same chip, it just struck me a little odd if this is the case. If that is what ATi is doing, then the X800 Pro could have a lot of overclocking headroom.


The X800PRO could have a lower voltage to lower the heat output. This will alow a smaller and cheeper HSF. Now if ppl volt mod it and put a better cooling solution, it will overclock higher.

[{Sniping}Waste]

more info!
http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33753357
:)

[PenguinJim]

I don't see ATi's new chipset beating the GeForce 6800 Ultra. ATi usually release poor 3D cards: the only decent one so far has been the 9700 (and the 9800 revision, I guess). Combined with nVidia finally dropping the 'FX' appendage (hey, I totally told you guys the FX series would suck, long before they were released ;)), and nVidia have a better chance than ATi at winning this round. The NDA expiry and consequent 6800 reviews seem to be backing me up on this, so far. Of course, I'm going to reserve final judgement until ATi release their new chipset, rather than fanboyishly announcing that it will overclock better and generate far less heat, run all non-Carmack games much better, and come with a free coupon for Heaven. ;)

I don't mind who wins, by the way. :angel2:

[ChrisRay]

I think people are gonna be very disapointed, Assuming ATI can pull the gun on Nvidia, There is no way they are going to "own" Nvidia, ATI has always been way too conservative for this, They Have been known to Clock as low as neccasary but maintain the lead in Doing so.

They arent gonna raise the bar any further than they have too, Because it will force Nvidia to raise the bar even further, And then ATI will have to respond again, Which will cost both companies even more money,


ATI and Nvidia arent stupid, They dont want to give you anymore than they have too, And maintain their reputations.

[DivotMaker]

ATi usually release poor 3D cards:

Incredibly stupid comment.

[Riptide]

ATI and Nvidia arent stupid, They dont want to give you anymore than they have too, And maintain their reputations.
A very wise observation. :clap:

[GlowStick]

ATi usually release poor 3D cards:

Incredibly stupid comment.No, accurate.

Should we suddenly Ignore ATi's past history?

And at that, did everyone suddnely ignore Nvidias past histroy?

Everyone seesm to have very short memories these days.

[EMunEeE]

I think people are gonna be very disapointed, Assuming ATI can pull the gun on Nvidia, There is no way they are going to "own" Nvidia, ATI has always been way too conservative for this, They Have been known to Clock as low as neccasary but maintain the lead in Doing so.

They arent gonna raise the bar any further than they have too, Because it will force Nvidia to raise the bar even further, And then ATI will have to respond again, Which will cost both companies even more money,


ATI and Nvidia arent stupid, They dont want to give you anymore than they have too, And maintain their reputations.

Ironic, that will all change with the coming of the RADEON X800 XT.

[muzz]

No, accurate.

Should we suddenly Ignore ATi's past history?

And at that, did everyone suddnely ignore Nvidias past histroy?

Everyone seesm to have very short memories these days.

ATi have without a doubt stepped up their efforts since the old days.
That company went through a metamorphesis and the 8500 was their first try at the speed crown afaik.
It failed to win, but now between drivers getting better, and engineers given the keys to make something happen they have done pretty well imo.

Folks shouldn't dismiss the R420 derivatives B4 they are revealed..
Those that do may be in for a rude awakening.

[ChrisRay]

Ironic, that will all change with the coming of the RADEON X800 XT.


I really doubt that, My guess is ATI will do what it must to get the performance crown, (assuming they can) and then settle for it.


I still cant see why people sit here and think these companies "want" them to have the fastest product, As far as Nvidia and ATI are concerned, they'd rather you buy up every FX 5200/9200 they have because they are cheap to make and make them money


I';m not disputing that ATI may take the performance crown, But they arent gonna take it with such force at the risk of losing scalability if they dont have too.

[5150 Joker]

Incredibly stupid comment.


Agreed.

[5150 Joker]

No, accurate.

Should we suddenly Ignore ATi's past history?

And at that, did everyone suddnely ignore Nvidias past histroy?

Everyone seesm to have very short memories these days.

Admittedly I never owned their previous hardware before 9700 pro but from what I've heard/read, their hardware has always been excellent - the drivers were what held them back in the past.