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hell_of_doom
04-16-04, 04:05 PM
Before I post this, I need a quick help here...
I can't take screenshot by pressing print screen button. Is there another way of getting screenshots?

Once I post this you will see all BS. coming from NVIDIA where they compare PS3.0 vs PS1.1 taken on NVIDIA card, and some people are falling for it thinking hell PS3.0 is far better than PS2.0. But. it's not...
I just want to prove you and tell me can you see difference :)

hell_of_doom
04-16-04, 04:12 PM
I found a way, just wait for 5 minutes...

gsgrunt
04-16-04, 04:25 PM
(mag) Waiting.....

hell_of_doom
04-16-04, 04:29 PM
here you go

http://bis.midco.net/lradunovic/FarCry0000.jpg

http://bis.midco.net/lradunovic/FarCry0001.jpg

http://bis.midco.net/lradunovic/FarCry0002.jpg

http://bis.midco.net/lradunovic/FarCry0003.jpg

http://bis.midco.net/lradunovic/FarCry0004.jpg

http://bis.midco.net/lradunovic/FarCry0005.jpg

http://bis.midco.net/lradunovic/FarCry0006.jpg

http://bis.midco.net/lradunovic/FarCry0007.jpg

http://bis.midco.net/lradunovic/FarCry0008.jpg

http://bis.midco.net/lradunovic/FarCry0009.jpg

1280*1024 very high FSAA4x AF8x Performance
The game in these level under those settings is playable

gsgrunt
04-16-04, 04:36 PM
You got my hopes up. I was expecting 9800 grabs form the Mod they demoed at the launch party.

hell_of_doom
04-16-04, 04:37 PM
My point is yeah PS3.0 looks good, but not much better than PS2.0. Actually everything what was done in PS3.0 could be done using PS2.0++ just needs more work...
Afterall, how the hell you guys come up with idea that r420 is not going to support PS 3.0 Maybe ATI told you ? :screwy:

Ruined
04-16-04, 04:38 PM
Yeh these shots are nowhere near as impressive as the ones shown in the FarCry PS3.0 videos.

einstein_314
04-16-04, 04:46 PM
Ummm...just one question. How do you know what PS3.0 would look like in those screenies? Correct me if I'm wrong. You are using PS2.0. I havn't seen any outside screens using PS3.0. Until I see a direct comparison between PS2.0 and PS3.0 (2 screenshots of exactly the same place not 2 entirely different screenshots) I'm not going to say that PS3.0 is a complete waste of time. There must be significant differences for it to have a new number let alone require new hardware. Oh well, that's my opinion anyways.

gsgrunt
04-16-04, 04:55 PM
[QUOTE=hell_of_doom]Actually everything what was done in PS3.0 could be done using PS2.0++ just needs more work...QUOTE]

...but can be slower

I could do what they did in the FarCry mod with DX6. Not the gravel beach, but the stairwell by swapping out pre-rendered texture maps for every possible combination of camera position and light(s) position but that doesn't mean a DX6 method is as good as a DX9 method. The DX6 method would be a slide show.

My DX6 to DX9 comparison is intended magnification of the kind of value of PS3 has over PS2.

If there was no significant value there why would Microsoft develop it?

einstein_314
04-16-04, 05:03 PM
If there was no significant value there why would Microsoft develop it?

Exactly my point.

Riff
04-16-04, 05:15 PM
Also, the main benefit in Far Cry visuals would be the use of displacement mapping. This is a feature made possible in VS 3.0, not PS 3.0. The visual difference will be easily spotted when the distance to the textured polygon is small and when the viewing vector is nearly parallel to the surface. You might be able to implement something similar using PS 1.4 but the PS 3.0 version will be much more practical.

ninelven
04-16-04, 05:53 PM
The reason most people expect R420 to be PS2.0 is because of the PS2.0b specification. I would think if the spec is created it would be used for something; however, I suppose there is really no way to know.

walkndude
04-16-04, 06:09 PM
Why hasn't anyone mentioned that between the two videos the crytec rep states the fact the effects shown are possible with BOTH 2.0 and 3.0 4 seperate times...

because for those with an agenda this is just about why nvidia sucks...

Funny thing is one of our "saviors" from the evil nvidia man and our own group stupidity struggles with taking a lousy screenshot, then posts shots that aren't comparisons at all...

gordon151
04-16-04, 06:25 PM
Why hasn't anyone mentioned that between the two videos the crytec rep states the fact the effects shown are possible with BOTH 2.0 and 3.0 4 seperate times...

because for those with an agenda this is just about why nvidia sucks...

Funny thing is one of our "saviors" from the evil nvidia man and our group own stupidity struggles with taking a lousy screenshot, then posts shots that aren't comparisons at all...

Are you criticizing or disagreeing with him? Seriously, that last sentence has me boggled. Anyhow, hehe, the benefits of PS3.0 over PS2.0x is that certain things can be done faster and easier. That's pretty much the gist of it.

einstein_314
04-16-04, 06:34 PM
Seriously, that last sentence has me boggled.

Well as for the first part of the last sentance...good question. But the end is understandable. He posted pictures using PS2.0 with nothing to compare them to. So how do we know that PS3.0 is no better than them? Good question.

Nv40
04-16-04, 07:07 PM
CRytek


The folks at Crytek, who also joined us at the event, were so impressed with NVIDIA’s new Pixel Shader that they dropped a bomb on stage last night and announced that they were releasing a mod in the very near future for Far Cry, which allows the entire game to be run using NVIDIA’s new Pixel Shader 3 technology. When asked how long it took to convert the entire Far Cry game engine to utilize Pixel Shader 3, Crytek’s answer was “3 weeks.” Unconfirmed reports have us looking for that conversion mod sometime this June.
http://www.gamers-depot.com/events/nvidia/6800_launch/001.htm


Valve


Hi rick, Thank you for answering my last question. I was wondering if Halflife2 is going to be supporting PS3.0? Or if that is something you plan to release in a patch once more people have hardware capible of it. Also any chance we'll be seeing a Halflife2 benchmark utility soon?
Thanks Michael

valve:
Ps3.0 is on the list to get added, although I can't commit to a
timeframe for it yet (most hardware can't support it anyway). As for
the benchmark, check with Doug Lombardi after E3 for more details.
http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?p=397513#post397513




IMHO.. this is not bad.. real gamers should be happy to see gamedevelopers to move quickly to the latest techology as soon as possible ,i dont know of anyone who will complain for better graphics in their games. and top game developers need to sell their engines ,so they will be fools to not support the latest STANDAR of MICROSOFT in their games. dont forget that also there is competiton between gamedevelopers to see who deliver the best engine. :)

as i have already told ..in the other thread..
yes PS2.0+ can do many things that PS3.0 can do in a diferent way.but is so difficult and time consuming and expensive performance wise ,that DEvelopers will not do it in non-PS3.0 hardware. SM3.0 allows to do many more things very quickly ,more efficiently and in less time.

however there are things that only SM3.0 can do ,and not possible in PS2.0+ hardware . true displacement mapping /FP blending /filtering geometry instancing ..and others,but also remeber that the minimun for PS3.0 is FP32 precision.. so shaders codec for FP32 precision at the minimun.. will look ugly.. PIXELATED (just like the FArcry shots in lower precision) in non-FP32 pixel shader hardware. and NV40 finally allows full speed at FP32..


Fp 16 is enough ONLY if the shaders are done in a game for that precision in mind.(doom3) Fp24 is enough only if those shaders are done for that precision in mind (standar PS2.0 games).. FP32 too...and in the very long future dont be surprised if the minimun is Fp64 . For the next UNREAL3 game(2006) FP32 will be the minimun aceptable .. VAlve ...yes.. they also will support Sm3.0 (however its possible that they will need to wait for ATI for busine$$ reasons.) but notice that VAmpites :*a game using Hl2 engine* is on the Nvdia list of SM3.0... IMHO , if you have plans to stay with your video card as long as i have had my geforce4 :) ~2 years.. then you will be better buying the fastest hardware you can + SM3.0 ,at the least . So if you dont upgrade frequently and still want to go with ATI ,then better wait for the R5xx hardware ,than is rumored that will arrive earlier than expected at the end of this year with SM4.0 support .

hell_of_doom
04-16-04, 07:56 PM
Well as for the first part of the last sentance...good question. But the end is understandable. He posted pictures using PS2.0 with nothing to compare them to. So how do we know that PS3.0 is no better than them? Good question.

Because PS3.0 implemented in this game will not be used intensive, like in HALO PS2.0 wasn't use intensive so you hardly could tell difference between PS1.4 and PS2.0, and that's the my point here. I really would like to see numbers in Far Cry using PS3.0 (FP32). However, numbers in Far Cry 6800Ultra showed in it are too low. I'm afraid r420 is going to have 40% more performance in this game over 6800Ultra. Mark my words! ok :)
The thing I really like is displacement mapping. But again, VS3.0 performance is kind weak to me as well, look at numbers in 3DMark03. On the other hand PS2.0 is doing great. NV40 is 16 pipe beast, no doubt. But, it's not all that great, and I would not make a real picture of it from the bench vs r360. r3xx core was revolutionary, and it did job well. The most interesting round is coming; r420 vs NV40 and after that I'm buying either r420 or NV40.

Snarfy
04-16-04, 08:02 PM
Because PS3.0 implemented in this game will not be used intensive, like in HALO PS2.0 wasn't use intensive so you hardly could tell difference between PS1.4 and PS2.0, and that's the my point here. I really would like to see numbers in Far Cry using PS3.0 (FP32). However, numbers in Far Cry 6800Ultra showed in it are too low. I'm afraid r420 is going to have 40% more performance in this game over 6800Ultra. Mark my words! ok :)
The thing I really like is displacement mapping. But again, VS3.0 performance is kind weak to me as well, look at numbers in 3DMark03. On the other hand PS2.0 is doing great. NV40 is 16 pipe beast, no doubt. But, it's not all that great, and I would not make a real picture of it from the bench vs r360. r3xx core was revolutionary, and it did job well. The most interesting round is coming; r420 vs NV40 and after that I'm buying either r420 or NV40.

meh, i'm gonna wait till pci express -- no point in upgrading now if a whole new system thats double the speed is coming out later this year =)

to each his own, tho :screwy:

jimmyjames123
04-16-04, 08:17 PM
h_o_d, you do realize that the NV40 was using very raw drivers, and that there were obviously issues in Far Cry? My goodness, you are really good at spinning things. Are you related to Hellbinder or Doomtrooper? Do you work for ATI? Why do you even bother to post at NV News? Looks like all you are trying to do is spread FUD.

hell_of_doom
04-16-04, 08:25 PM
meh, i'm gonna wait till pci express -- no point in upgrading now if a whole new system thats double the speed is coming out later this year =)

to each his own, tho :screwy:

I can understand it, but this new video card is going to be the latest upgrade on my current system which supports only agp4x. No more upgrades for me till 2006 and Longhorn (financial reason)
Right now, I own P4 3.06HT 768MB RDRAM PC4200-32bit modules.
I'm posting it because all of you NVidia people were talking over a year how you do not care because NVIDIA is cheating in drivers, and do not care about ATI's FP24 over FP16 as long as you have high frame rates. And now suddenly PS3.0 is the end of everything! :retard:
I'm not ATI's or NVIDIA's fan, I'm customer who buys the best. But, I'm objective as well...

jimmyjames123
04-16-04, 08:36 PM
Most people do not think that PS 3.0 is the end-all, be all. What people are trying to do is get a better understanding of what gains that PS 3.0 can give over PS 2.0. Like it or not, quite a few developers are openly embracing PS 3.0. Being able to test out these effects on the Geforce 6 series must be exciting to most of them, and as a consumer it is nice to have the option of using and viewing these effects too.

hell_of_doom
04-16-04, 10:34 PM
Most people do not think that PS 3.0 is the end-all, be all. What people are trying to do is get a better understanding of what gains that PS 3.0 can give over PS 2.0. Like it or not, quite a few developers are openly embracing PS 3.0. Being able to test out these effects on the Geforce 6 series must be exciting to most of them, and as a consumer it is nice to have the option of using and viewing these effects too.

I agree...

matthewryanc
04-17-04, 12:03 AM
meh, i'm gonna wait till pci express -- no point in upgrading now if a whole new system thats double the speed is coming out later this year =)

to each his own, tho :screwy:
You are referring to the R500, right? Because I hope you are not stupid enough to believe that PCI-Express is gonna double your framerates. Well, PCI express is going to improve your framerates just as much as the difference between a 256MB and a 512MB NV40. AKA, not noticable in the real world (and also not worth the price). Why doesn't anyone remember the days when AGP was being introduced... Same thing was said, and it was just as useless then as it is now.

Snarfy
04-17-04, 12:09 AM
You are referring to the R500, right? Because I hope you are not stupid enough to believe that PCI-Express is gonna double your framerates. Well, PCI express is going to improve your framerates just as much as the difference between a 256MB and a 512MB NV40. AKA, not noticable in the real world (and also not worth the price). Why doesn't anyone remember the days when AGP was being introduced... Same thing was said, and it was just as useless then as it is now.

1. r423, is the pci-express model, i believe
2. of course it wont double my frames, but if i'm building a whole new computer, i might as well use the latest architecture, so i can upgrade to later pci-express video cards, i'd be stupid not to, if i want a comp that lasts me a while
3. i wasnt reading these boards when AGP was introduced, but it seems to me that most cards are using agp now, no?

correct me if i'm wrong in anything i said

matthewryanc
04-17-04, 12:19 AM
1. r423, is the pci-express model, i believe
2. of course it wont double my frames, but if i'm building a whole new computer, i might as well use the latest architecture, so i can upgrade to later pci-express video cards, i'd be stupid not to, if i want a comp that lasts me a while
3. i wasnt reading these boards when AGP was introduced, but it seems to me that most cards are using agp now, no?

correct me if i'm wrong in anything i said
1. R423, NV45, yes, you're right. I was referring to the 'double framerate' quote, in which the r500 will double performance of this gen (most likely).
2. If you plan on building a new system, then yes, it's best to wait. But for someone with a P4 2.6+, it's retarded to throw away an processor, motherboard to just upgrade a vid card. If you are on a lesser machine, see former statement. If you're sittin on the fence, purchase an AGP now, and wait till winter/spring, when the new tech is cheaper, and the cards are designed to UTILIZE PCI express (unlike current gen, even ATI's).
3. I obviously wasn't reading these boards at this time either (look at created account date), but when AGP came out, comparisons between top cards (VooDoo3 3000 PCI vs AGP), the performance difference wasn't there. Only when the nest gen debuted (Geforce 1), were cards designed to utilize AGP.