PDA

View Full Version : NV 40 VS R420 showdown delayed (also first r420 picture)


Pages : [1] 2

CaiNaM
04-22-04, 03:35 PM
http://www.oc.com.tw/article/0404/imgs/ati-RANCH-012.jpg

a forum member over at rage3d (http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?s=&postid=1332788500#post1332788500) forums took the time to translate the Q&A from the article which contained the picture:

As I am a chinese, I will translate a bit to you.

You are right about the lunch date. (Now the answer says the Radeon X800 Pro is launched on 5/4 (4th May), and the Radeon X800 XT is launched on 5/21 (21st May))

In the report the reporter asked what is the meaning to ATi to use GDDR-3 but not GDDR-2. ATi replies, this is because currently GDDR-2 max out @ 450 MHz (It should be max out at 500 MHz, don't ask me why ATi say 450 MHz. I am just translating the article) and the Radeon X800 will require 500 MHz or 600 MHz memory speed.

the reporter asked why the Radeon X800 does not have PS 3.0, here is the answer:

translate: There is no different between an image rendered by PS 2.0 and an image rendered by PS 3.0. PS 2.0 is good enough to handle most of the shader instructions in games. Also, there won't be too many games will support PS 3.0 in the foreseeable future. And, PS 2.0 is still not fully coded to show its strength. If forced to produce a chip that can render PS 3.0 codes, the performance of the chip may be not high enough to produce smooth frame rate. From our point of view, greatly enhance the PS 2.0 unit on our products sound more meaningful to consumers.

looks like single slot, single molex, and no dual dvi?

Geforce4ti4200
04-22-04, 03:53 PM
that may be the x800 pro, I hear the x800xt might be dual molexes. even the 6800 NON ultra is single molex cause 12 pipes eat less power. and ati was right not supporting ps3.0, theyd rather have the extra performance

mrgoodcheese
04-22-04, 04:04 PM
Sounds like tap dancing around the issue of PS 3.

nForceMan
04-22-04, 04:12 PM
PS 2.0 is good enough to handle... :rofl :rofl :rofl

I smell FUD FUD FUD, just f*cking FUD. Ati has already lost this round. owned:

Nvidia256
04-22-04, 04:18 PM
I smell FUD FUD FUD, just f*cking FUD. Ati has already lost this round

Steer clear everyone, WE have SILVIA BROWN here.

euan
04-22-04, 04:44 PM
:rofl :rofl :rofl

I smell FUD FUD FUD, just f*cking FUD. Ati has already lost this round. owned:

Nvidia themselves recommended developers shouldn't use the advanced SM3 features such as branching and so on becuase it will cripple performance.

Until it can run with high performance, it's nothing but a buzzword, and a toy for CAD. Like all new generation Nvidia cards they have a non-optimised new generation of technology, and optimise their hardware for the outgoing "next gen tech". IE the 6800 GPU has been optimised for SM2. The difference with ATI, is that they hit the ground running with SM2 last generation. This next generation (if you can it that for ATI), is looking more like a performace and efficiency boost. They have the potential to be much faster at current generation games. I suspect that few games will use the advanced SM3 instructions such as branching, and stick to the fundamentals. So if they haven't been workling on SM3. What have ATI been doing? (mag)

Nvidia256
04-22-04, 04:57 PM
^
||
||

I like this guy, he knows what he is taking about.

ChrisRay
04-22-04, 05:06 PM
Nvidia themselves recommended developers shouldn't use the advanced SM3 features such as branching and so on becuase it will cripple performance.

Until it can run with high performance, it's nothing but a buzzword, and a toy for CAD. Like all new generation Nvidia cards they have a non-optimised new generation of technology, and optimise their hardware for the outgoing "next gen tech". IE the 6800 GPU has been optimised for SM2. The difference with ATI, is that they hit the ground running with SM2 last generation. This next generation (if you can it that for ATI), is looking more like a performace and efficiency boost. They have the potential to be much faster at current generation games. I suspect that few games will use the advanced SM3 instructions such as branching, and stick to the fundamentals. So if they haven't been workling on SM3. What have ATI been doing? (mag)


Actually, Thats an exxageration. Nvidia reccomended Conservative use of Dynamic Branching, They did not reccomend against using it, They said Branching at every single code interval could have dire effect on performance., they did not say, That using branching ever would always hurt performance, Comes down to smart coding, And How many Long shaders are used and what they are used for.

Branching on Some Shaders could improve performance, its Deciding where to branch out your math Operations is all.

SuLinUX
04-22-04, 05:14 PM
NV40 supports PS2.0 at full speed anyway so whats the fuss about, PS 3.0 is there if needed, HDR and displacement mapping have not been used yet but are DX9 complient.

jAkUp
04-22-04, 05:17 PM
Well.. here we go again, to PS3.0 or not, that is the question

jimmyjames123
04-22-04, 05:18 PM
It is my understanding that PS 3.0 is a more efficient way of handling PS 2.0 instructions. So, while there may not be a significant difference in image quality, there also shouldn't be a slowdown when using PS 3.0 vs PS 2.0 because of the efficiency gains.

Obviously NVIDIA and ATI are going to have very different opinions on how useful PS 3.0 is. However, for developers, full PS 3.0 capability seems to be a very welcome feature. NVIDIA is getting a lot of developer support this time around, no doubt about it.

Ninja Prime
04-22-04, 05:46 PM
:rofl :rofl :rofl

I smell FUD FUD FUD, just f*cking FUD. Ati has already lost this round. owned:


This coming from a moron who doesn't even know what PS3.0 is... :lol:

PoorGuy
04-22-04, 06:17 PM
:rofl :rofl :rofl

I smell FUD FUD FUD, just f*cking FUD. Ati has already lost this round. owned:

:rofl :rofl :rofl

No dual DVI's? Ati has already lost this round. owned:

Morrow
04-22-04, 06:18 PM
...and ati was right not supporting ps3.0, theyd rather have the extra performance

well, ATI could have choosen the "extra performance" and PS3.0 support. Both are not mutually exclusive.

I however sincerely hope that the ATI spokesman or whoever he is was solely talking about PS3.0 and not VS3.0 or SM3.0 in general.

If he was exclusively speaking about PS3.0 (which would mean that the X800 has VS3.0 support) he is only partially wrong. But if he indeed meant the whole package (SM3.0 which the nv40 supports) he is spreading complete BS.

Morrow
04-22-04, 06:24 PM
:rofl :rofl :rofl

No dual DVI's? Ati has already lost this round. owned:

If ATI has really lost this round has yet to be proved but their new compression method won't help them in any way, that's for sure.

ATI has to outperform nvidia by at least 20-30% if they don't want to lose any market share in the coming months...

Face Stabber
04-22-04, 06:25 PM
There is no different between an image rendered by PS 2.0 and an image rendered by PS 3.0.


Well, there is when your PS 2.0 doesn't support FP32.

Morrow
04-22-04, 06:34 PM
There is no different between an image rendered by PS 2.0 and an image rendered by PS 3.0.

well, if you don't use any of the new PS3.0 features then yes, a PS3.0 image will look exactly like a PS2.0 image.

But then again, who buys a Porsche when you don't use highways?

matthewryanc
04-22-04, 07:25 PM
But then again, who buys a Porsche when you don't use highways?


:screwy: Why in the hell would you want to put highway miles on a porsche? Porsche's are for the twisty's, when their handling comes into play.


The majority of games developed in the past 2 years are being developed with PS2.0 features in mind. True, PS3.0 will be used in future games (1-2 years away), but by then, you'll own another vid card anyways. Just because Farcry uses PS3 doesn't mean it really USES PS3. As was said, all of those effects could be carried out on PS2 hardware.

My favorite thing is these people with FX5900's and Radeon 9800's that are saying that whatever card they buy they want to be future proof. What a bunch of BS. They're obviously going to upgrade with the next gen anyways... retards...

jimmyjames123
04-22-04, 07:46 PM
Why in the hell would you want to put highway miles on a porsche?

To get it close to top speed, of course. You can't even come close to doing that on twisties. :D

True, PS3.0 will be used in future games (1-2 years away), but by then, you'll own another vid card anyways.

The hardware is what tends to drive the software. That's why developers are so excited to work with the 6800 series. If everyone had your attitude regarding SM 3.0, then we wouldn't see it in cards until the next generation many months off, and developers wouldn't have a real world platform to test on. Like it or not, SM 3.0 is a good feature to have, especially if the card is fast enough to effectively use it (and the 6800 series seems to qualify here).

matthewryanc
04-22-04, 08:07 PM
To get it close to top speed, of course. You can't even come close to doing that on twisties. :D



The hardware is what tends to drive the software. That's why developers are so excited to work with the 6800 series. If everyone had your attitude regarding SM 3.0, then we wouldn't see it in cards until the next generation many months off, and developers wouldn't have a real world platform to test on. Like it or not, SM 3.0 is a good feature to have, especially if the card is fast enough to effectively use it (and the 6800 series seems to qualify here).
I agree with those points, except for the '6800 being able to power them' quote. Again, you have seen PS3 used, but not it being really pushed to it's limits. We won't know how well the 6800 will be able to power TRUE PS3 games for at least another year, by which time it'll be slow compared to the new gen anyways.

PS1.4 was out for awhile, but because it wasn't a great leap in technology, it wasn't implimented very often. However, PS2 was a great leap forward, with plenty of headroom left for more use. I believe this applies to PS3. Some may use it, some may not, but in the end, it's the same end result for users.

gordon151
04-22-04, 08:45 PM
My favorite thing is these people with FX5900's and Radeon 9800's that are saying that whatever card they buy they want to be future proof. What a bunch of BS. They're obviously going to upgrade with the next gen anyways... retards...

Hehe, too true.

jAkUp
04-22-04, 08:50 PM
Not always, I am gonna get a new card, but who knows what could happen next year, I could be sued for all the money I own... future proof is a good thing :)

reever2
04-22-04, 09:01 PM
but their new compression method won't help them in any way, that's for sure.


Yeah new compressions methods never helped anybody... :rolleyes:

LordPainII
04-22-04, 09:39 PM
Yeah new compressions methods never helped anybody... :rolleyes:


Yeah that silly Kyro II, I mean half the core speed of a gf2ultra and almost the same proformance. All because of "useless" compression. ;)

CaptNKILL
04-22-04, 11:12 PM
These discussions are funny.... no one knows any more about this stuff than anyone else, yet everyone is arguing like they helped build the damn R420.... its always been this way tho.... i remember people doing it with the Geforce 2 and Radeon.. heh, i actually got involved then :D

......carry on :p