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jAkUp
04-22-04, 09:02 PM
http://www.driverheaven.net/articles/driverIQ/

Very minor differences, but differences indeed, could just be early drivers.

ChrisRay
04-22-04, 09:07 PM
I have to wonder how mip map detail ect, was set for Nvidias Drivers, And were trillinear optimisations on or off?

Raptorman
04-22-04, 09:11 PM
Hopefully driver fault.

If they are cheating again that is just :lame: and nVIDIA should be :spank: .

I guess I'll be reading on when more info is posted about this (mag)

But then again I don't care as long as it looks good to me.

CaiNaM
04-22-04, 09:14 PM
ugh.. this crap is soooooo tiring.. i like this part best, "To me though, its not a matter of what I can see so much as the fact that this changing of textures is happening behind the users back."

now, i'm all for calling someone regarding lowering IQ to make something "appear" faster, but gimme a break - WHAT YOU CAN SEE IS THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS. the end product, or what we see, is what matters - not wtf you think you want happening "behind the scenes".. jeesus... i mean, "everything i see looks great, but i'm not getting what i paid for!".. wth kind of crap is that? sheesh...

Raptorman
04-22-04, 09:15 PM
ugh.. this crap is soooooo tiring.. i like this part best, "To me though, its not a matter of what I can see so much as the fact that this changing of textures is happening behind the users back."

now, i'm all for calling someone regarding lowering IQ to make something "appear" faster, but gimme a break - WHAT YOU CAN SEE IS THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS. the end product, or what we see, is what matters - not wtf you think you want happening "behind the scenes".. jeesus... i mean, "everything i see looks great, but i'm not getting what i paid for!".. wth kind of crap is that? sheesh...

Agreed :ORDER:

jAkUp
04-22-04, 09:17 PM
The point is, although you might not be able to notice it there, there may be some scenes where you will be able to notice. Not only that, their driver team are concentrating on iq dumbing down rather than reducing overhead, improving architecture.

If the end result looks the same, I really don't care, but I am scared that the end result "could" be different, or if thier card ends up being slower, they might take these to whole new levels. Right now they have the fastest card on the market, they dont need to waste their time with that stuff.

jimmyjames123
04-22-04, 09:18 PM
Do you know if the "trilinear optimizations" were somehow enabled in the driver control panel?

What card was used to make the reference/rasterizer image?

Finally, can anyone from Futuremark comment on this article, and comment on why the 60.72 Forceware drivers were approved?

To be quite honest, this seems more like FUD, because at least at the moment, there is no good reason for NVDA to cheat with the NV40. The NV40's performance lead over the current generation of high end cards has already been shown through numerous tests and benchmarks.

ragejg
04-22-04, 09:42 PM
jakup, don't worry so early, man!!

seriously, that article is a big fat WTF to me...

BOTH gpu's produced results different than the rasterized images. Period. There you go.

jAkUp
04-22-04, 09:43 PM
Yea I know :) I'm just getting the jitters cuz I really want one of these cards!! And I really want the better one :) I have a feeling its gonna be a hard decision...

LycosV
04-22-04, 09:49 PM
Although it may be the common conclusion, just because the end result differs from ATI, doesn't mean it's wrong.

LycosV

Ruined
04-22-04, 09:55 PM
I think everyone is just going to have to get over the fact that no matter how awesome a card is, since it is not using software acceleration it may look different than a software reference when analyzed on a pixel-by-pixel basis. When MikeC did the multiple side-by-side 3dmark plane shots, even zoomed in at 400x, no one could tell the difference between the ATI 9800XT and Nvidia 6800 shots or rather say either one was definitively better. I'd focus more on major differences that could actually be seen by the eye, such as possible SM3.0 enhancements, than crap like this. 'nuff said

-=DVS=-
04-22-04, 10:04 PM
Sad a bit , i thought 6800 would have no IQ degradeing cheats at all oh well time will show if anything gonna change with Nvidia policys :retard:

Ruined
04-22-04, 10:12 PM
Sad a bit , i thought 6800 would have no IQ degradeing cheats at all oh well time will show if anything gonna change with Nvidia policys :retard:

lol, the ATI pic different looks different than the reference too, does that mean ATI is also using "IQ degrading cheats," or is it just because they are pieces of hardware versus a software render.

Again, when MikeC posted side by side zoomed in screenshots of the 6800 and 9800 in 3dmark, people could not figure out which was better. Again, 'nuff said :)

evilchris
04-22-04, 10:12 PM
Sad a bit , i thought 6800 would have no IQ degradeing cheats at all oh well time will show if anything gonna change with Nvidia policys :retard:

6800 doesn't have any "IQ degrading cheats". I'll trust Futuremark over "Driverheaven". We all know you want NVIDIA to fail DVS, give it a rest.

CaiNaM
04-22-04, 10:13 PM
Sad a bit , i thought 6800 would have no IQ degradeing cheats at all oh well time will show if anything gonna change with Nvidia policys :retard:

perfect example.. doesn't matter if the article is right, it still prejudice's people's opinion. i mean the quoted reply shows that, regardless of something sensible as Ruined, LycosV, and others have stated.. well, the response speaks for itself...

-=DVS=-
04-22-04, 10:15 PM
LoL an attack from Nvidiots ? me wanting Nvidia to fail ? :rolleyes: :rofl
Its not like i would say look Nvidia cheating they suxor , i commented on conclusion in article , get a grip people. Nvidiots :retard:

MontoyaSG
04-22-04, 10:17 PM
most important thing of all
can you actually find such IQ differences in a split second

-=DVS=-
04-22-04, 10:20 PM
most important thing of all
can you actually find such IQ differences in a split second

Offcourse not its same debate as ATIs 24FP precision and Nvdias 32FP :rolleyes:

CaiNaM
04-22-04, 10:29 PM
LoL an attack from Nvidiots ? me wanting Nvidia to fail ? :rolleyes: :rofl
Its not like i would say look Nvidia cheating they suxor , i commented on conclusion in article , get a grip people. Nvidiots :retard:

if you're referring to me, it wasn't an attack at all. but since we're on the subject, while you didn't say, "Nvidia cheating they suxor", you certainly did say,

"i thought 6800 would have no IQ degradeing cheats at all". which certainly implies they are indeed using "iq degrading cheats", and,

"oh well time will show if anything gonna change with Nvidia policys", which certainly implies that at a later time they will change their (current) cheating policies.

-=DVS=-
04-22-04, 10:34 PM
Was refering to seeda moustly he/she attacks fanatics, anyway cheats i meant Optimizations :wonder:
and comment on Nvidia policy is all the fiasco with NV3x line who haven't change mutch still , i am fully aware its beta drivers an all but history tends to repeat itself. ;) funny cose everyone here is fanboy and im pretty sure everyone will jump ships if one or the other company brings faster card me includeing :D

Richteralan
04-22-04, 10:36 PM
w00t
those fanATIcs finally can take a breath....

zerodamage
04-22-04, 10:39 PM
For one, we did not say Nvidia is cheating. Just in case you did not notice it, we contacted Nvidia and Futuremark about this and are awaiting responses. The issue is that saying the 6800 scores 14000 3dmark03 when in reality it should be scoring around 11000 or 9000 because of what is happening with the IQ there means a lot. We all know many people base their purchases on what 3dmark03 scores show. Be reasonable.

Nv40
04-22-04, 10:47 PM
the card is not out yet.. and that site are jumping the gun.. grasping straws ..nitpicking things here are.. there.. . im really sure that we can find "lowered textures" or "cheating" in ATI cards too.. if we use their same logic.. there is no reference image for AF or AA... there is no correct way of doing AA or AF .. dont forget that ..ATi and NVidia use diferent adaptive techniques.. what matter is the final output that gamers will experience in their games..

if they observe actual in game screenshots like this..

http://hardocp.com/image.html?image=MTA4MTc0NzQ0ODZxTE1PbWV1dFNfN185X 2wuanBn

vs this...

http://hardocp.com/image.html?image=MTA4MTc0NzQ0ODZxTE1PbWV1dFNfN18xM V9sLmpwZw==

without using photoshop ,or any investigation behind the scenes , clearly AA and AF is much better in the NVdia shot. ATI AF looks washeout ,doesnt cover many places and their AA breaks the smaller lines ,Nvidia smooth them, even ATi seems to show display errors.. does that means that ATI is cheating? no..
just diferent techniques..

the Geforce6800 is not even out , is a reference card ,with premature drivers.. so bugs in games are possible (if there is any..farcry..comandconquer..etc).. notice that ATi R3xx have more polished drivers ,their cards have years in the market and still there are many games that display errors.. does that means they are cheating? no.. get over this.. it doesnt look like a genuine investigation behind that article. imho.

evilchris
04-22-04, 10:47 PM
For one, we did not say Nvidia is cheating. Just in case you did not notice it, we contacted Nvidia and Futuremark about this and are awaiting responses. The issue is that saying the 6800 scores 14000 3dmark03 when in reality it should be scoring around 11000 or 9000 because of what is happening with the IQ there means a lot. We all know many people base their purchases on what 3dmark03 scores show. Be reasonable.

What you did is create a massive prejudice against the 6800 when you don't even know what is going on yet. The responsible thing to would have been to contact FM and NV FIRST before publishing your page. Now, you'll look like a fool if you turn out to be wrong. You don't know whether or not the things you noticed are affecting the speed. You don't know what it "should" be scoring at all. Your article just created more FUD on the subject. Most people GET THE FACTS before they post such gross accusations.

jAkUp
04-22-04, 10:52 PM
He got the facts... please, I wouldn't believe a thing that Futuremark and/or nV says regarding this issue.