View Full Version : Market for Quadro FX 4000 will be small...
Who's gonna shell out $2k for an AGP card? At that price, I think people would rather spend another $1k for a new CPU and MB that supports PCI-Express then get the PCI-Express version of QFX4K. Sell the old CPU and MB on E-bay and the diff is <$1k.
vvolkman
05-04-04, 04:23 PM
Who's gonna shell out $2k for an AGP card? At that price, I think people would rather spend another $1k for a new CPU and MB that supports PCI-Express then get the PCI-Express version of QFX4K. Sell the old CPU and MB on E-bay and the diff is <$1k.
Its not "people" that buy the high-end Quadros, its corporations like EDS which buy brand new DELLS with whatever the latest sh*t hot Quadro is. I'm guessing 90% of Quadros are in workstation purchases, as opposed to aftermarket upgrades. But that is a guess.
I agree with the corporate purchase comment. But anyone who's buying a $5k workstation, especially in bulk, should be doing more evaluations before spending that kind of money. And careful analysis will show that it's best to wait for PCI-Express and NV45GL. Too bad there are too many of the "quarter is ending this month, let's spend all the money in our budget or it goes back to corporate" type manager out there.
GlowStick
05-05-04, 11:08 PM
Wow that is a pritty dam pricey card.
I would like to find out exactly how much more it costs them to make the FX 4000 compared to the 6800 Ultra.
I bet its almost non exstant : \
They claim it uses the "NV40GL" chip. I doubt it's really a different chip but merely the NV40 with some stuff enabled. Then the card has 2 dual-link DVI interfaces. On the QFX2K, the dual-link port uses 2 Sil178. 4 pieces shouldn't cost more than $40.
I can understand they want to recover R&D costs by pricing it so high.
vvolkman
05-07-04, 10:35 AM
They claim it uses the "NV40GL" chip. I doubt it's really a different chip but merely the NV40 with some stuff enabled. Then the card has 2 dual-link DVI interfaces. On the QFX2K, the dual-link port uses 2 Sil178. 4 pieces shouldn't cost more than $40.
I can understand they want to recover R&D costs by pricing it so high.
The same argument was made during the Quadro2 days. There was a mod you could do and/or drivers to fake a Geforce2 chip into a Quadro2. However, there were some performance marks that the Geforce2 cards still couldn't hit after modding. Sorry this is vague, I just can't remember what those features were about.
pinnocchio
05-11-04, 10:06 PM
Looking at the spec of the 4000 I think it'll support 3840 x 2400 at a refresh rate of 51Hz (on the T221) whereas the 2000 on has a refresh rate of 25Hz..this is because the 4000 has 2 dual dvi connectors.
The latest rev of T221 runs at 48Hz and comes with 1 dual-link DVI to 2x single-link DVI converter box. They hacked up a special mode in QFX3K (and most likely QFX2K) to run 3840x2400@48Hz over 1 dual-link and 1 single-link simultaneously.
The announcement letter of that T221 did state that it can work with 2 dual-link DVI converter boxes. This mode is less of a hack than the QFX3K and QFX2K special mode.
They should come out with a 2 dual-link DVI T221 and forget the converter boxes.
pinnocchio
05-13-04, 04:47 AM
Well the Matrox HR-256 outputs using 2 dual dvi's and I'm getting 51Hz refresh...
At 51Hz you're getting judder. The T221-DG5 always refreshes at 48Hz internally. And if you have the older T221-DG3, the correct refresh rate is 41Hz.
To avoid confusion, the Matrox card has 4 single-link DVIs arranged in 2 connectors. That's different than the GFX4K which has 2 dual-link DVIs.
xinchenc
05-24-04, 03:22 AM
hello Wlison,
I am to buy an IBM T221 9503 DG3. I would like to know how to make it run at 3840x2400@41Hz with QFX4K? Is there any special dual-dvi link cable?
Also, please check this link:
http://www.3dlabs.com/product/technology/wildrealtech.htm
3Dlabs discussed this point:
"Consider the 9.2 Megapixel (3,480 x 2,400) flat-panel displays that are used for extremely high-end visualization applications such as DCC, engineering, medical imaging, and geophysical research. Such a display can accept one single-link DVI input, two single-link DVI inputs, one dual-link DVI input, or two dual-link DVI inputs. Even with a graphics subsystem as advanced as a Wildcat Realizm VPU-based unit, the awesome resolution of this display means that one single-link DVI connector would provide a refresh rate of only 12.5 Hz, while two single-link DVIs could achieve a maximum of only 24.5 Hz. However, a VPU equipped with two dual-link DVI outputs can drive such a display at a very respectable 50 Hz."
If there no 2 dual-link DVI T221 as you expected. How can 3Dlabs or Nvidia cash what they claimed? Such as on a Viewsonic vp2290b monitor, or on an IBM T221 9503 GD3 monitor? :screwy:
Check this img:
http://www.zkxt.com/parhelia_HR/connections.jpg
I believe there has such 2 dual-link cables!
Thanks,
Chen
If you want >25Hz with a QFX4K, you'll need a T221-DG5 that comes with a dual-link to 2x single-link converter box. Use either one converter or get an extra one. Either way you'll get 48Hz refresh. The DG3 will not work with the converter box.
The only way to get >25Hz with a T221-DG3 is to use a card with 4 single-link DVIs, each with 1920x1200 support. At this point there are only a couple of PCI cards out there that fit the bill.
Forget about 3Dlabs. They are about as bad as Matrox.
xinchenc
05-24-04, 01:00 PM
Thanks wilson
Last question. Have you ever seen movie on your 9503 DG3? is it still acceptable?
Since DG3 only works at 25Hz, I think the new nvidia 6800 will do.
Videos look okay but you'll get judder because the DG3 always refreshes at 41Hz and you're driving it at a different rate. Even if you do 20.5Hz, the movie will be in 24fps or 29.97fps.
It's unclear whether the 6800 will genlock the 2 DVI connectors. It's a software issue; nVidia wants T221 users to pay for a Quadro. Try the 6800 and let us know if the 2 heads are genlocked. If not, you'll see tearing between the left and right halves of the screen.
I'm personally waiting for the NV45GL with native PCI-Express and a T221 with native dual dual-link DVI and 60Hz refresh :)
BTW, there's a group dedicated to the T210/T221 on Yahoo called IBM_T2X_LCD. I urge you to join that group and browse through the archive.
lightman
06-11-04, 05:32 PM
The same argument was made during the Quadro2 days. There was a mod you could do and/or drivers to fake a Geforce2 chip into a Quadro2. However, there were some performance marks that the Geforce2 cards still couldn't hit after modding. Sorry this is vague, I just can't remember what those features were about.
If I remember correctly, hardware antialiased lines were not supported on the GF2 and thus all the wireframe benches performed much worse on the modded GF2s than on the real Quadro2.
Another thing. The people who buy pro cards usually give very little importance to the price, they only want (and need) the fastest available card. Moreover, they expect top notch stability, assistance, and quality. That's the reason a lot of people was (and still is, in some cases) willing to pay close to $10k for a HP Visualize FX6 or some tens of k$ for SGI's high end systems.
So yes, maybe the market for this kind of gfx cards is quite small, by number of cards sold, but it's a high-margin profit market. A really high-margin one.
nolazabal
05-27-05, 05:14 PM
dumb questino maybe someone can help me, does anyone knows if i should have monitor drivers for the 9503-DG3 or DG5?and if yes where do i get them
for windows XP pro that is
thank you
:confused:
no monitor driver necessary
ricercar
05-27-05, 07:46 PM
It seems we're back to the GeForce2 days of making Quadros from GeForces.
According to the author of RivaTuner, the NV40 architecture is sufficiently programmable that one can make a NV40 (GeForce) into a full NV40GL (Quadro) in software. While this was untrue for GF4 and FX, there's a thread here on NVnews called "The Quadro Effect" where RobHague and Unwinder demonstrate its possible with GF6.
"One who says 'it cannot be done' should never interrupt one who is doing it." The Roman Rule.
tvleavitt
12-13-05, 03:13 AM
I just acquired a Dell 2405FPW (one of those $800-1000 24" LCDs) for my wife, who is a graphic designer... I discovered that the Quadro FX 500 currently in her system won't output more than 1600x1200 via the DVI port. Can anyone advise me as to whether the Quadro FX 3000 or 4000 (which I'm currently looking at, but not for $2000) will do this? I believe they can drive the monitor at the native 1920x1200, but I'm not 100% sure.
cgordonfreeman
12-14-05, 08:28 PM
Yes, you're right. They can display that resolution. I have 2x Quadro FX 4400 512mb for sale at the moment. I'd be willing to let them go for $1500 (for the two). They're brand new and only one has been used for about 20 hours.
Cheers,
John.
cgordonfreeman
12-14-05, 08:31 PM
I just acquired a Dell 2405FPW (one of those $800-1000 24" LCDs) for my wife, who is a graphic designer... I discovered that the Quadro FX 500 currently in her system won't output more than 1600x1200 via the DVI port. Can anyone advise me as to whether the Quadro FX 3000 or 4000 (which I'm currently looking at, but not for $2000) will do this? I believe they can drive the monitor at the native 1920x1200, but I'm not 100% sure.
Yes, you're right. They can display that resolution. I have 2x Quadro FX 4400 512mb for sale at the moment. I'd be willing to let them go for $1500 (for the two). They're brand new and only one has been used for about 20 hours.
Cheers,
John.
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