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jimmyjames123
05-02-04, 04:22 PM
Does anyone have any idea or guess regarding when NV is going remove the GeForce FX series optimizations in their Forceware drivers?

It seems to me that the NV40 will perform better and have more stable drivers once the FX series optimizations are removed and once the NV driver team starts to optimize the compiler for the NV4x platform. Hopefully, NV can get back closer to the driver stability that they had around the time of the GeForce Ti cards, since the NV4x architecture seems to be much more solid and more scaleable than the NV3x architecture.

ChrisRay
05-02-04, 04:24 PM
Does anyone have any idea or guess regarding when NV is going remove the GeForce FX series optimizations in their Forceware drivers?

It seems to me that the NV40 will perform better and have more stable drivers once the FX series optimizations are removed and once the NV driver team starts to optimize the compiler for the NV4x platform. Hopefully, NV can get back closer to the driver stability that they had around the time of the GeForce Ti cards, since the NV4x architecture seems to be much more solid and more scaleable than the NV3x architecture.

Probably will never remove the optimisations for the architecture, heck there are still geforce 4/3 Optimisations out there, Its possible with time that Device ID checks and optimisations based on those will thin out over time tho.

Nvidias Compiler can optimise for more than strictly one Graphic series you know.

jimmyjames123
05-02-04, 04:35 PM
Nvidias Compiler can optimise for more than strictly one Graphic series you know.

I know, and I know about NV's unified driver architecture. However, I do wonder if NV can gain some stability and performance boost in their NV4x cards by removing some of the FX series optimizations in the driver.

From what I have seen, many Ti4xxx owners have reported numerous bugs with the 50 series Forceware drivers, even though there were very few bugs when using the Ti4xxx cards with some older pre-FX drivers. FX card owners in general also seemed to have been reporting more bugs than I can ever remember being reported initially for Ti4xxx owners.

I guess what I am hinting at is:

4x.xx drivers: most suitable/stable for Ti4xxx owners

5x.xx drivers: most suitable/stable for 5xxx FX owners --> drivers generally less stable than those used in the past with the Ti series

6x.xx drivers: most suitable/stable for 6xxx owners --> move towards more stable drivers as seen in the past with the Ti series

What do you think?

ChrisRay
05-02-04, 05:27 PM
I know, and I know about NV's unified driver architecture. However, I do wonder if NV can gain some stability and performance boost in their NV4x cards by removing some of the FX series optimizations in the driver.

From what I have seen, many Ti4xxx owners have reported numerous bugs with the 50 series Forceware drivers, even though there were very few bugs when using the Ti4xxx cards with some older pre-FX drivers. FX card owners in general also seemed to have been reporting more bugs than I can ever remember being reported initially for Ti4xxx owners.

I guess what I am hinting at is:

4x.xx drivers: most suitable/stable for Ti4xxx owners

5x.xx drivers: most suitable/stable for 5xxx FX owners --> drivers generally less stable than those used in the past with the Ti series

6x.xx drivers: most suitable/stable for 6xxx owners --> move towards more stable drivers as seen in the past with the Ti series

What do you think?

Well, I dont agree with these conclusions. because I have used the 52.xx drivers for Geforce 4 series and Geforce 4 MX series (tech a Geforce 2) So, I always believe using modern drivers benefits cards oif any previous class. Nvidia also releases bug fixes for every series as is ;)

So no dont think optimisations will be removed. Not in the matter you are suggestion anyway.

jimmyjames123
05-02-04, 05:38 PM
I will admit that I am a little out of the loop, because I have not even bothered to try any of the 5x.xx drivers on my Ti4200 ;)

Razor04
05-02-04, 05:40 PM
Does anyone have any idea or guess regarding when NV is going remove the GeForce FX series optimizations in their Forceware drivers?

It seems to me that the NV40 will perform better and have more stable drivers once the FX series optimizations are removed and once the NV driver team starts to optimize the compiler for the NV4x platform. Hopefully, NV can get back closer to the driver stability that they had around the time of the GeForce Ti cards, since the NV4x architecture seems to be much more solid and more scaleable than the NV3x architecture.
Aww did the poor fanboy not like my harsh but true response to this same question over at B3D? Did you feel the need to come back over here to garner support for your viewpoint and make yourself feel better?

jimmyjames123
05-02-04, 05:43 PM
Aww did the poor fanboy not like my harsh but true response to this same question over at B3D? Did you feel the need to come back over here to garner support for your viewpoint and make yourself feel better?

What in blazes are you talking about??? I never posted this question at B3D. I don't even know who you are. Maybe you are a bit confused here. :screwy:

Casper
05-02-04, 05:48 PM
I think they will always be there as preferred rendering choice by nVidia but reading some of the previews there is a very interesting button that is supposed to allow you to run full trilinear filtering at least. And hopefully there will be fixes for the other optimizations and such too.

reever2
05-02-04, 05:51 PM
It will never be removed, but it will however not have any more optimizations added

MikeC
05-02-04, 06:02 PM
Aww did the poor fanboy not like my harsh but true response to this same question over at B3D? Did you feel the need to come back over here to garner support for your viewpoint and make yourself feel better?

Razor stay on thread topic and stop flaming other members. Please abide by our forum rules. This is your only warning.

Razor04
05-02-04, 07:27 PM
What in blazes are you talking about??? I never posted this question at B3D. I don't even know who you are. Maybe you are a bit confused here. :screwy:
Let me refresh your memory quickly... LINK (http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11995&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60) Now unless there is a different JimmyJames over on B3D with the exact same name then you're wrong not me. If I was indeed wrong I apologize. MikeC I don't plan on participating any further in this thread as I already answered his question over at B3D that he claims doesn't exist. Also can you please point me to the forum rules? I didn't even know that they existed. Might I make a small suggestion to placing them as a sticky in all the forums. I know a few other boards that do this to make sure that everyone knows them. I think this would be a good thing to have especially around card launches. I have one or two other questions for you but will PM you with regards to them as they don't belong in this thread.

ChrisRay
05-02-04, 07:36 PM
Let me refresh your memory quickly... LINK (http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11995&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60) Now unless there is a different JimmyJames over on B3D with the exact same name then you're wrong not me. If I was indeed wrong I apologize. MikeC I don't plan on participating any further in this thread as I already answered his question over at B3D that he claims doesn't exist. Also can you please point me to the forum rules? I didn't even know that they existed. Might I make a small suggestion to placing them as a sticky in all the forums. I know a few other boards that do this to make sure that everyone knows them. I think this would be a good thing to have especially around card launches. I have one or two other questions for you but will PM you with regards to them as they don't belong in this thread.



I dont agree with your conclusion.

jimmyjames123
05-02-04, 09:32 PM
Let me refresh your memory quickly... LINK Now unless there is a different JimmyJames over on B3D with the exact same name then you're wrong not me.

LOL! You've got to be kidding me...you think that statement--a question for DaveB regarding NV40 pipeline bubbles made in the middle of a large B3D thread--had anything to do with starting this thread here, based on your one response? That's totally illogical. If I wanted to respond to you, trust me, I would have done it over at B3D. What I was really looking for specifically from DaveB at B3D was an answer regarding whether pipeline bubbles could be "smoothed out" using software. That is different from what is being asked here. Don't confuse the two.

MikeC I don't plan on participating any further in this thread as I already answered his question over at B3D that he claims doesn't exist.

You shouldn't have been "participating" here in this thread in the first place. Looks like you have no clue what you are talking about here, and you are only here to flame. :screwy:

Grrrpoop
05-02-04, 09:50 PM
I'm no programmer but my skewy understanding of gfx card drivers leads me to believe that Optimisations for the FX line will only affect FX hardware - they don't utilise global optimisations AFAIK as what works for one card would possibly impact negatively upon another line, e.g. GF4 or GF3.

nVidia aren't in the habit of just "dropping" support for previous product lines. You can accuse them of plenty but poor product / driver support isn't one of them. Since the FX optimisations aren't harming anything they'll just remain in the set until.. well, the forseeable future. They appear to have struck a reasonable balance WRT performance / IQ so from an ethical viewpoint I think they're still best left in place to keep the FX line up to scratch in Doom3 / HL2 etc.

muzz
05-02-04, 10:01 PM
I'd like to see what the Farcry numbers are without these optimisations myself.
I do NOT see the numbers getting better, as right now it is running the partial precision NV30 path, and the numbers are nothing to be proud of with crappy IQ.
Whats it gonna be like when the take it to FP32?

I hope for NV fans it'll be fixed, and will work well, but I have a hard time imagining it'll get better ( numbers wise).

We'll see, but I really wish they would fix it soon, cuz IMO the numbers are inflated, they KNOW they are inflated, and MOST folks DON'T know about the PP........ they only know numbers.

The NV40 SEEMS like it can stand on it's own, I wish they would let it without the PP/false numbers...

Thats all.

bkswaney
05-02-04, 10:10 PM
The NV3x will just not run without the optimizations.
They opt's will be there for years to come.

I'm just glad to see the NV4x can run with or without them. :D