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dave_
05-04-04, 12:32 PM
Tom
http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040504/index.html

Anand
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=2044


lots of graphs and stuff all over the place as usual... but here's something I found interesting - nvidia's "hardware decoding" is just PR:

from Tom's: Although NVIDIA has sent us a new beta driver since the launch of its GeForce 6800 Ultra, this new version did nothing to remedy this card's bad performance when playing back the HDTV and DIVX clips.


http://www.de.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040504/images/video-hdtv.gif
While the FX5950, 9800XT and the new X800 boards are once again neck and neck, the GeForce 6800 is clearly the "laziest" by far, letting the CPU do the work.

Casper
05-04-04, 12:38 PM
Makes you wonder what all that extra transistors was used for doesn´t it??

Jarred
05-04-04, 12:40 PM
Tom
http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040504/index.html

Anand
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=2044


lots of graphs and stuff all over the place as usual... but here's something I found interesting - nvidia's "hardware decoding" is just PR:

from Tom's: "Although NVIDIA has sent us a new beta driver since the launch of its GeForce 6800 Ultra, this new version did nothing to remedy this card's bad performance when playing back the HDTV and DIVX clips."


http://www.de.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040504/images/video-hdtv.gif
While the FX5950, 9800XT and the new X800 boards are once again neck and neck, the GeForce 6800 is clearly the "laziest" by far, letting the CPU do the work.

wait a minute here, go and look at all the new reveiws of the Ultra Extreme, and let me know if you think it's the "laziest" :)

dave_
05-04-04, 12:41 PM
wait a minute here, go and look at all the new reveiws of the Ultra Extreme, and let me know if you think it's the "laziest" :)

you talk the talk, but can you link the link? ;)

edit: Tom's - Eventhough we haven't yet seen the performance numbers from NVIDIA's 6850 Ultra part, it is likely that there will be a price premium that goes along with that performance. On top of that, the 6850 is really just an overclocked 6800 Ultra part. We will take a look at the issue further when we are finally able to run some numbers.

coldpower27
05-04-04, 12:42 PM
Nvidia's concentrating on getting performance out of NV40 architecture for now, they will make use of the Hardware Decode chip later... It doens't work yet, but they still have time before retail boards actually ship:)

Jarred
05-04-04, 12:44 PM
you talk the talk, but can you link the link? ;)

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1583557,00.asp


seems as if the "Extreme" will make up the difference that we saw last night...?

OWA
05-04-04, 12:45 PM
I'd probably wait until an official driver and product are out before deciding its fate. If it isn't working once the product is out, then we can complain about it.

dave_
05-04-04, 12:50 PM
Nvidia's concentrating on getting performance out of NV40 architecture for now, they will make use of the Hardware Decode chip later... It doens't work yet, but they still have time before retail boards actually ship:)

I have no sympathy for a tech company that paper launches a product weeks before availability with the features they advertise not even working.

IF nvidia does get it working (Tom said the new drivers didn't help) then ATI's peformance in this area is already so good that it will probably just make nvidia on par anyway - not some amazing new feature to focus on.

having said that, I'm interested in what the ENcoding is like - that could be useful if it works properly.

Jarred
05-04-04, 12:50 PM
Heres some more results, but these are a bit different,

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/geforce_6800_ultra_extreme/page21.asp

Jarred
05-04-04, 12:52 PM
Still, the Extreme has given Nvidia an 10% increase, it's even ahead now in some titles it was behind in, like Aquamark,

This card is by no means "lazy"

dave_
05-04-04, 12:53 PM
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1583557,00.asp


seems as if the "Extreme" will make up the difference that we saw last night...?

doesn't say anything about video codec acceleration

dave_
05-04-04, 12:54 PM
Still, the Extreme has given Nvidia an 10% increase, it's even ahead now in some titles it was behind in, like Aquamark,

This card is by no means "lazy"

you are failing to understand. Tom called it "lazy" because it lets the CPU do a lot of the decoding of video files, this has nothing to do with Far Cry or UT2004 or anything like that :rolleyes:

Jarred
05-04-04, 12:57 PM
you are failing to understand. Tom called it "lazy" because it lets the CPU do a lot of the decoding of video files, this has nothing to do with Far Cry or UT2004 or anything like that :rolleyes:

ah ok.

Casper
05-04-04, 12:59 PM
Exactly and noone stops you from overclocking your ULTRA to Extreme speeds. Just watercool the GPU and you can´t fail... I don´t think nVidia should get into this Mhz race. They are doomed to fail thanks to their transistor count.

Nephilim
05-04-04, 01:01 PM
I have no sympathy for a tech company that paper launches a product weeks before availability with the features they advertise not even working.



So you don't care that the card isn't retail yet and won't be for a while still. It doesn't matter that you can't get your hot little hands on it yet. As long as the feature works by the time you can actually purchase the card, why do you care?

I don't. If the cards starts shipping and the feature still doesn't work properly, then we'll talk.

Razor04
05-04-04, 01:11 PM
I agree that they better fix this by the time the cards ship because as of right now they aren't impressing me at all...especially considering the fact that my 9700 Pro can do 85% of the features NV was touting with regards to video acceleration. My big beef with NV is that they hyped up the video processor as the greatest thing since sliced bread and didn't even bother to get it working...instead they just said that it will be fixed in a future driver. That sounds a little too familiar to me. I honestly don't think they thought that hardware sites would benchmark this feature and they could get away with it. It just irks me to see them push something that isn't even working right now.

OWA
05-04-04, 01:24 PM
I have no sympathy for a tech company that paper launches a product weeks before availability with the features they advertise not even working.
ATI is on version 9.0 of the MMC and it still doesn't work right but you're upset that nvidia's beta drivers and a card you can't even buy yet isn't working in early reviews?

Socos
05-04-04, 02:20 PM
Nvidia's concentrating on getting performance out of NV40 architecture for now, they will make use of the Hardware Decode chip later... It doens't work yet, but they still have time before retail boards actually ship:)

If they actually ship... A believe ATI is supposed to have cards in stores tomorrow. When will NV???

This is starting to Stink of the NV30 all over again.. But hey maybe I am jumping the gun a bit, but after the NV30, I think they deserve my skepticism. (mag)

OWA
05-04-04, 02:50 PM
Yeah, I wish they'd release right after launch or just delay the launch until the cards are ready. It seems more upfront that way and less open to criticism.

vitocorleone
05-04-04, 03:39 PM
"I have no sympathy for a tech company that paper launches a product weeks before availability with the features they advertise not even working."

Nvidi fans gave no mercy (rightfully so) when ATI did this with the 8500. No one should be whining (not saying you were - just speaking in general) about how it isn't fair that nvidia is taken to task for doing the same with paper launch and features not working with the 6800.

Lfctony
05-04-04, 04:21 PM
I have no sympathy for a tech company that paper launches a product weeks before availability with the features they advertise not even working.

IF nvidia does get it working (Tom said the new drivers didn't help) then ATI's peformance in this area is already so good that it will probably just make nvidia on par anyway - not some amazing new feature to focus on.

having said that, I'm interested in what the ENcoding is like - that could be useful if it works properly.

So then you should have no "sympathy" for ATI either. Or you tend to forget when ATI was doing things like this? As I said before, you are kind of one sided.

Hard OCP Quote

"While having potential in a card is good, when you or I, or anyone, buy these cards off the retail shelf, we expect a certain level of performance that has been hyped to us from the beginning. Features advertised on the box itself were not working at the debut of the card. All of these things combined to give the Radeon 8500 a very bad first impression. You know what they say about first impressions, right?"

Here's your link. (http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MjU1)

Razor04
05-04-04, 04:32 PM
A lot of you have pointed out that ATI is guilty of some of the same things. This is true and it was just as unacceptable back when they were doing it. To give them credit though things have changed drastically since the acquisition of ArtX. Since then ATI has been stellar in a lot of areas and improving greatly in others.

Two examples of improvement are OpenGL support and the Catalyst Control Center. Both have already made huge improvements compared to what they previously were but both also have some radical changes coming up. According to Dave over at B3D a total re-write of the OpenGL code is currently underway and the new Control Center that was shown in the X800 review today is a HUGE step in the right direction.

Both companies have had good times and bad times. It is however unacceptable to do some of the things listed in this thread...and that applies to EITHER company.

Lfctony
05-04-04, 04:41 PM
Will this code re-write help current cards, or just the new ones? I'm really having a hard time about which direction I should take, it all will come down to price I guess as both companies have good products.

dave_
05-04-04, 04:58 PM
So then you should have no "sympathy" for ATI either. Or you tend to forget when ATI was doing things like this? As I said before, you are kind of one sided.

that's nonsense, I "have sympathy" for ATI since they ARE NOT paper launching weeks before release. if they did I would criticise them too.

do you really think I should treat them the same because ATI did it years ago whereas nvidia is doing it right now? :rolleyes:

that would be silly. here are some hints for people unable to differentiate between past and present and future:
1. just because the 8500 had crappy drivers on release does not mean all ATI drivers suck and will continue to do so for all eternity.
2. just because nvidia cheated with the NV3x does not mean all nvidia benchmarks are cheats and will continue to be so for all eternity.

jimmyjames123
05-04-04, 04:59 PM
Those OpenGL rewrites may take a few months to complete. DaveB estimated 6-24 months, I believe. Obviously they are trying to change for the better, it just takes time is all.