What makes a song "good"?

[ExitWound]

I'm gonna ask a simple, yet serious, question.

What makes a song good?

Why is one song considered "better" than another? I have tried answering this for years and I've come to absolutely no conclusions. I have a few questions inside this conundrum that I'd like to pose that might just push us deeper into the Void of Unknowing (tm).
Consider the following song: Angel of Death - Slayer. It's renowned as one of the "top 100 metal songs of all time". It's topic: anti-Hitler/Nazism. We all have our opinions regarding what happened during that point in history. Is that why the song is "good" - because most of us share a common opinion on the subject? Are we all predictable to the point that the subject matter could justify a song to be 'good'?
Master of Puppets/One - Metallica. We've all heard them and probably agree that these are some of the most famous metal songs of all time. What determines their infamy? Do we consider them 'good' because of popularity? Does the shoving of them down our throats by our good friend the RIAA play a role in a value of a song? Surely there are songs which are 'good' and are not even on the radio. These are played on nearly every Metallica Hour on the airwaves. To air a Metallica show without Master of Pupper is blasphemy.
What makes them 'good' in our eyes..uh ears? Are they arranged in such a fashion that the brain responds in a different manner? Do they incorporate some predefined godlike chord progression that we unconsciously react to in a positive light? Is there some magical harmony that we instinctively enjoy more than others? or is it just popularity and hype which we, as humans, find irresistable?

I am on a quest to find out why some songs are good, and others bad and why even though a song is deemed annoying, will stick in your head for weeks on end until you can hear it in your sleep and you wake up night after night in sweat having nightmares that it forces you to become dependant on relaxants to the point where your muscles atrophy and the guinness book of world records shows up at your door calling you "stick boy" and you become world famous, being shoved into people's lives via tv, radio, the internet, and even the newspaper, sold out to the masses for billions of dollars. Oh i will find an answer.

[Mod]

Well, the best song, if you can call it a song, for me is Shohmyoh from 6:08 to the end. It's an Akira music. Pretty weird, but I really love it. If anyone here knows any other music of this kind, could you post it here ?

[The Baron]

It's all about the hooks.

Look at Shania Twain. She's not that great, but her husband/producer, Mutt Lange, is the same guy who did Def Leppard. The guy is a genius when it comes to producing--he throws in key changes everywhere and all these little subtle things to make things interesting.

As for what makes a song good... layering. I can listen to the NIN song We're In This Together and hear something in the background that I never heard before or didn't remember, and it makes me say, "DUDE! That guy knew what he was doing!"

[thcdru2k]

it really depends on the genre of music and people's personal taste. when comparing songs in general, there isn't really one thing you can pinpoint as the reason for a good song because different type of music will have different reasons on why its a good song. however if you comparing songs of the same genre..they'res definately a common characteristic between good songs.

for instance i listen to underground rap, major difference to what you hear on radio, and what is considered mainstream. it has nothing to do with the money, cash, cars crap that is rapped about. it has more of a hiphop flavor, and its all about the usage of words and floetry. tight rhymes and free flows with a addictive beat that usually make no sense, but sick rhymes will make a song and an artist good.

[sytaylor]

Originally posted by =SSC=The Baron
As for what makes a song good... layering. I can listen to the NIN song We're In This Together and hear something in the background that I never heard before or didn't remember, and it makes me say, "DUDE! That guy knew what he was doing!"

i'll agree with that to an extent... just like harmonizing with your own voice sounds good too.. but for a good song, it has to be not too catchy at first, and have the kind of sounds that just grips you, but in a form not yet done by any other song :)

[marqmajere]

A song is good when the first time you hear it, it puts chills down your spine. Then after the second time (and third and fourth....) you listen to it, you HAVE to make every single person you know listen to it. That's how you TELL if a song is good or not.
Now about your question : What MAKES a song good? pfft. Beats the crapola outta me. If I knew, I wouldn't be sitting here responding to your post. I'd be putting chills down other peoples spines. ;)

Marqus

By the way, Exitwound. I like the avatar you picked out. Looks good. :)

[vampireuk]

Its all down to personal taste, for me its simple kickass tune and lyrics:)

Which is why I listen to all the music that I do, because personally I think they are extremely talented and produce really good music. Also Blind Guardian rule:D

[ExitWound]

Ok, but take Blind Guardian then. A Night at the Opera, to me, was the WORST album I've ever listened to. There were no catchy tunes. There were no great riffs and hooks. It was all clouded behind Hansi's overdubbed choral voicing. I found none of the songs with decent arrangements at all. Choruses and verses were hidden as their form morphed throughout the songs. Though, ask any FAN, and you'll hear that An Then There Was Silence (the 16min fall of Troy) and you'll hear over and over again, "It's amazing! The best song they've ever done".

Catchy eh? I would have to argue that these songs are "catchy": Don't Worry Be Happy (Bobby McFerrin), Hanky Panky (Madonna), Mr Roboto (STYX), yet few people deem them "Good songs". They're popular and popular only. They all follow a certain pattern though (verse-chorus-verse-chorus), which most rock n roll does. I don't believe, then, it has to do with arrangements or length of the songs.

Going back to Metallica's Master of Puppets. Why does this put chills down your spine? Certainly, the speed and talent of the musicians in the band create a flurry of sounds, harmonics, and energy within the song. We all know that fast songs don't necessarily make a good song. Harmonics in A Night at the Opera (Blind Guardian) ruined it. If he hadn't done the harmonic vocals, I would have loved the album. Too much can obviously kill the song. Harmonizing in ways that other bands have not yet done it. Interesting. Originality is not necessarily integral, though, for a good song. Any of the powermetal bands are said to be "clones" of the original PowerMetal bands (Judas Priest, Gamma Ray, Helloween), and all have their fans' favorite songs. All the 'pop stars' certainly are clones of each other, formed to make money. Are their songs all BAD, or are they bad only because we are tired of them? They're catchy as well, and put on a good show. Energy. I will say that if a song has a lackluster singer, it goes nowhere. So what indeed does it possess that puts chills down your spine?

[vampireuk]

I'm not really a metallica fan so it doesnt put chills down my spine:D

I like heavy bass in a song too, always feels and sounds good.....as long as it is done right:)

[Spectral]

For me, what makes a good song is good percussion.

I am a percussion freak, and when I hear very complicated drum patterns I tend to really like the tune....

Which is why I listen to Jungle and Drum and bass primarily. Dont ask me why I like percussion so much, I just do.

[sytaylor]

i think its almost impossible to nail just what it is, simply because its so down to the individual... what do you as a person want from the music, what sounds good yo YOU

These questions have 6 billion answers, however the stuff that makes bands money, i suppose a music producer can answer that better than i.

Take for example my own tastes, depending on my mood i might like our lady peace/rhcp/nirvana style songs rarley harsh, or sometimes i like the heavier stuff... and if im really energetic and bouncy, i might go for dance music... or if laid back R n B

its like asking someone why they like an art picture... it takes years of studying it to realise why you like it.

[Head_slinger]

I REALLY REALLY like Fear Factory, they are my all time best band. The only explanation i feel for liking them is the style of the music. I really like heavy music, industrial, and people like Sting and Seal (dont nkow what category they are :D.

Fear Factory manages to have all these genre's in there songs Heavy, melodic, good tune's. Even though there main roots are death metal i have there first album. It still sounds good. My friends say it desnt sound like Fear Factory but i think seeing ive listened to all the more newer songs i can i dentify there style in ever form of song they do. :D

[vampireuk]

Depending on my mood I either like my music heavy or heavy:D

btw Exit check your pm's:)

[ExitWound]

So what we've come up with is that there are just as many people who say Ice Ice Baby is a good song as people who would say Inna Gotta Divita is a good song. So it's personal taste. Originality, creativity, lyrical content, which defines a 'good song'.

Why does the crap sell, then?
No offense to any of the people in the bands I list but, why does StainD and Limp Bizkit sell bigtime when in fact, everything which defines a 'good song' is thrown together in 5 minutes, distributed on major airwaves. The originality and creativity isn't there. They all pretty much have the same lyrical content and meanings, the same bang-on-the-guitar-as-loud-as-you-can sound. Few actually sound different than the others that are popular alongside themselves. The artists don't care about the music. they aren't artists in any way. they're CON artists, out to make money off the people who buy whatever's popular at that moment. I would go so far as to say that 95% of the music on these albums are NOT GOOD SONGS at all in terms of the topics mentioned above.

I take it, then, that what determines a 'good song' to the music industry is WHAT SELLS, and when this takes over, what we end up with are the bands that actually put time and effort into their art get ripped off. There are popular bands, sold by the RIAA, that actually have a talented musicians among them.

Fear Factory is actually a good example. Burton Bell actually put together an amazing set of harmonic vocals in deathmetal growl fashion while maintaining that cybernetic sound. Raymond Hererra can play mean skins. He actually is the reason why I found myself learning the double bass kick. Demanufacture is one of my most loved albums, and Obsolete not far behind. As they were pressed, however, by the RIAA and sold out on the air, Digimortal was a HUGE letdown, as it broke new ground into the nu-metal genre much more than they ever had been before. With the breakup of the band, citing "Professional business differences" as the reason, the taint of the industry was obviously the poison. Burton had more than just moneymaking in his blood. You'll see him for years to come doing other projects. Take a listen to Zero Hour and you'll see that there CAN be individuality and creativity within a genre.

I am a musician.
Starting with keyboards when I was in elementary school, I had always had a craving for it. Picked up the drums when I was in 11th grade after analyzing a Green Day album and being able to just know "I can do what Tre is doing". it was an odde feeling, but I knew from that day I was going to be a drummer. Teaching myself the guitar also at this point, but my love will always be the skins, preferably behind a powermetal band. It's my dream to play if only ONE show live on a stage somewhere, saying to myself "They're singing MY song". To me, that'll be my ultimate achievement, not making a bazillion dollars on the radio. If I never make it to the radio, so be it. But in order to do that, I need to figure out why some songs are liked and others hated. I've never analyzed it before and you guys have helped out a great deal. I can't put it all into words, though, as my writing skills aren't a priority. Hopefully the words will come out in the music, even if they're instrumentals.

[thcdru2k]

it sells because a buncha little kids try to act cool and listen to limp bizkit and think they are hardcore. they run to their parents and ask for money and buy a buncha crap.

[vampireuk]

Be warned, anyone that mocks Korn will get a big belt round the head;) :D

The majority of metal bands out there do sound the same. I don't listen to those bands at all, I listen to the ones with a different sound and whos sound has not changed at all to go with what the masses like. For example Korn, some people may not like them but they are talented and have stuck with the same sound. Disturbed, another talented group with a sound that doesnt seem the same as everyone else.

It is down to personal taste but some people need a smack round the head at times;) :D

[Nephilim]

Well, I won't knock Korn because I know there are people that like them. I'll just say I don't (and I've even seen them live....MANY years ago). :D

If you look hard enough, I think you'll find that a LOT of the more popular, well, "good" songs come from musicians that are classically trained.

It's not about genre, or if they write a song du jour. Its all about knowing your stuff. Any old schmuck can't sit down and write a good song. You have to know about chord progressions, note arrangements, rhythm, lyrical rhythm, harmonies, etc.

Beethoven wasn't a good musician because he was talented. He was good because he was trained.

[intercede007]

OMG...has anyone heard the new Mudvayne song "Not Falling" off of the Ghost Ship soundtrack? It's not just good, it's darn good!!!

[ExitWound]

Please explain WHY it is a good song. Honestly. Curious :)

[intercede007]

LOL! This is gonna sound really wierd, so try and follow along. I love math but I have absolutely no clue about music. I've never had the patience to learn. But Mudvayne...these crazy guys actually sit down with a calculator and write their music!!! They come up with some of the most abstract time signatures and put it all together. So this one day, my best friend trey and I are cruising around listening to L.D. 50, and he starts talking about time signatures, and asks me some questions about math and some differant number sequences, and he starts to understand. So then I turn around and ask about time signatures, and it all made sense to both of us!!!

Seriously though, for as heavy as these guys are, there is something incredibly melodic and soothing to their sound. I'm not big into metal, I'm a 311 and Jimmy's Chicken Shack kind of guy, but something about bands like Mudvayne and for the last 4 years, Sevendust really appeal to me.

[thcdru2k]

mudvayne rocks! working out or getting hyped for football thats all i listen too.