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digitalwanderer
05-07-04, 10:47 AM
Yup, that's what Jen-Hsun Huang stated at least three times in the corporate earnings report. Some people got to talking about it at Beyond3D and after a few e-mails Kyle Bennet was kind enough to show up and confirm it with some info from BFGTech:
FrgMstr (alias 'Kyle Bennet' of HardOCP) wrote:
BFGTech just tested a 6800U quickly for you guys. Here is what they said.

"We just ran 3DMark03 with one power connector with no problem. We are
letting it run for a few hours to see if anything happens.

The warning said the clock freqs would drop with only one power cable
hooked up, but checking CoolBits, they were the same.

Fascinating."

The teaser above is free, for links and such I'll make you read me post about it at Elite Bastards (http://www.elitebastards.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4685). (Hey, it's a pretty fair trade! ;) )

vampireuk
05-07-04, 11:17 AM
Yesterday at nVidia's corporate earnings report (http://www.corporate-ir.net/ireye/ir_site.zhtml?ticker=NVDA&script=2100) Jen-Hsun Huang stated at least three times that the second molex connetor on the 6800 was optional and only there for overclocking enthusiasts.

This was in direct contrast to what they'd told reviewers earlier, so naturally some people started talking about it. Somewhere aroundpage 4 of this thread over at Beyond3D about the earnings report (http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12207&start=76) Kyle Bennet of HardOCP (http://www.hardocp.com/) contributed some new info:


Interesting feedback from BFGTech. It would seem that both plugs are very much needed for proper sustained operation of the 6800U.

"With one connector, we are getting some artifacting in 3DMark03 during
Battle of Proxycon and Trolls, but not much, some shimmering and black
lines. Played UT2004 no problem with one connector. "

Save them some hassle :thumbsup:

schuey74
05-07-04, 11:34 AM
Exactly what I've been saying the past few days to all the people who thought they'd pick up a 6800 GT and overclock it past Ultra levels - power will be a problem w/ only one connector.

Dazz
05-07-04, 01:43 PM
Yeah the 2nd connector is really for overclocks which was what nVIDIA says.

Socos
05-07-04, 02:11 PM
Yeah the 2nd connector is really for overclocks which was what nVIDIA says.

Bahhh that may be true, but that just tells me they are selling it overclocked out of the box.
I work in the manufacturing world and you don't add cost to a product just to make it cute or give it crap if it is not needed.
That second molex cost money to add, and last time I checked Nivida was in business to make money. Its there for a reason and just so we can overclock our cards and void the warranty does not seem a valid reason from the company that makes them.

This is damage control plain and simple. People are crying about the power requirements and Nivida is like :retard: What???? We didn't really say you had to have a 480w power supply, it was just a nice suggestion. :screwy:

Let the back tracking begin!!! :spank:

Dazz
05-07-04, 02:13 PM
Yeah but alot of people overclock as it's simple. and also high end video cards are for high end people then tend to overclock, not joe buy which will pick up a GF FX5200 :D

schuey74
05-07-04, 02:46 PM
Obviously the 6800 can function with only one connection as Firing Squad overclocked the 6800 GT to over Ultra levels and they claimed stability. But different apps put different loads on the graphics cards. Just look at the numbers ATI put up for their new cards. It takes about 15% more power to run 3Dmark01 than '03. Like Sotos said, Nvida would not have put the second connector if it wasn't necessary. Some games or apps out there need the extra power, that's 4 sure.

Dazz
05-07-04, 02:53 PM
There is also memory voltage to include also.

Skynet
05-07-04, 03:07 PM
Whether it has 1 or 2 molex connectors does not change the power consumption of the card. Honestly having 2 connectors is NOT the issue, a molex is not THAT expensive it probably costs the manufactures only a few cents to put it there. (I know I know every penny counts)

I don't understand why it is so important to have only one molex. Do some of you feel THAT insecure that you will feel better about nVidia if it only has one connector? Or does 1 molex prove to you somehow that the card is not a failure? WHO CARES if it has 1 or 2 connectors, the power draw is what you need to worry about.

schuey74
05-07-04, 03:36 PM
Whether it has 1 or 2 molex connectors does not change the power consumption of the card. Honestly having 2 connectors is NOT the issue, a molex is not THAT expensive it probably costs the manufactures only a few cents to put it there. (I know I know every penny counts)

I don't understand why it is so important to have only one molex. Do some of you feel THAT insecure that you will feel better about nVidia if it only has one connector? Or does 1 molex prove to you somehow that the card is not a failure? WHO CARES if it has 1 or 2 connectors, the power draw is what you need to worry about.
Uhhhh, one or two connectors does not change the power consumption of the card, but it does change how much power can be delivered to it. If it has it, it's because it needs it. Perhaps in 99% of the scenarios it's not necessary, but why would Nvidia put it there if it was not used?

I definetely don't care how many connectors the card has. I don't have any power issues with my PCs and they'll run any of the upcoming cards with no problem. Without it even being on the market yet, I can tell you for 100% sure that the 6800U will not be a failure. Only a blind fanboy or a full flown moron would make that statement. The top two cards from both ATI and Nvidia are absolutely spectacular, yet they are very different. If you are in the market for a $400 - $500 video card then you can be sure that there has never in the history of graphics cards been so many great options.

The only reason I ever brought up the second connector was because in another thread, people were talking a lot about buying GTs and overclocking the hell out of it. I simply pointed out that the GT only had one connector, yet the card is identical to the Ultra with two connectors. The extra connector is there to provide additional power, when necessary. It's not me, it's physics. To run 100% stable at Ultra clocks for 100% of the applications out there requires a second connector to deliver the required power.

Dazz
05-07-04, 04:40 PM
I heard in some cases you will see snow in very demanding pixle shaders with only 1 molex in use and some time shimmering gfx. This happens to a card thats has been overclocked to much and is running out of juice so 2 molex connectors would be best for optimal peformance.

Cota
05-07-04, 04:48 PM
why not put 4 molex so it can have its own ATX PS?

:screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy:

schuey74
05-07-04, 04:54 PM
why not put 4 molex so it can have its own ATX PS?

:screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy:
Dude, that's flaming! :ORDER:
Seriously speaking, anymore than two would truly be impractical. The amount of molex connectors on a high-end card should not be a big deal as it can realistically only be one or two anyways and the people buying these cards know exactly what they are getting themselves into. What gets me is the people who will argue to no end that Nvidia put on the second connector as a decoration because it really wasn't necessary. :screwy:

jimmyjames123
05-07-04, 05:19 PM
The only reason I ever brought up the second connector was because in another thread, people were talking a lot about buying GTs and overclocking the hell out of it. I simply pointed out that the GT only had one connector, yet the card is identical to the Ultra with two connectors. The extra connector is there to provide additional power, when necessary. It's not me, it's physics. To run 100% stable at Ultra clocks for 100% of the applications out there requires a second connector to deliver the required power.

You still don't exactly get it. The 6800 GT can be clocked at or above 6800 Ultra levels, even when using just it's single molex connector. The 6800 Ultra and Ultra variants need the second molex connector to account for clock frequencies when overclocked well above the 400Mhz stock core clock. Power requirements increase much more on the 6800 cards when moving from 400Mhz core to 450Mhz core, vs moving from 350Mhz core to 400Mhz core. That's why you see two molex connectors on the Ultra variants, and that's why you see a 6800 GT being overclocked to Ultra stock levels with little fanfare.

Dazz
05-07-04, 05:29 PM
Also their memory runs higher and needs more voltage too.

gordon151
05-07-04, 05:32 PM
You still don't exactly get it. The 6800 GT can be clocked at or above 6800 Ultra levels, even when using just it's single molex connector. The 6800 Ultra and Ultra variants need the second molex connector to account for clock frequencies when overclocked well above the 400Mhz stock core clock. Power requirements increase much more on the 6800 cards when moving from 400Mhz core to 450Mhz core, vs moving from 350Mhz core to 400Mhz core. That's why you see two molex connectors on the Ultra variants, and that's why you see a 6800 GT being overclocked to Ultra stock levels with little fanfare.

That doesn't correlate with the follow-up response HardOCP received from BFG when they tested the card (6800 Ultra) with one connector. They never indicated they overclocked the system so I'll assume its stock speeds, but they saw slight artifacting in certain tests.

ClosetFanBoy
05-07-04, 05:36 PM
i read on another forum and checked it out myself. firingsquad clocked a gt from 350-500 to 425-600 on a 350w psu without problems being mentioned.

Dazz
05-07-04, 06:05 PM
You seemed to of got mixed up, they an't no about the PSU specs but the need to use dual molex connectors to power the cards.

Anyway like what gordon151 said as i seem to be invisable in all.

CaiNaM
05-07-04, 06:24 PM
well, we'll know soon enough.. those cards should hit retail in a few weeks and i'm sure we'll have all kinds of reports - good and bad :)

jimmyjames123
05-07-04, 06:31 PM
That doesn't correlate with the follow-up response HardOCP received from BFG when they tested the card (6800 Ultra) with one connector.

The 6800 GT is not exactly the same card as the 6800 Ultra, and it is designed to have a single molex connector. I think what Jen Hsun was trying to say is that a 6800 series card can reach 400Mhz core clock without really needing that second molex connector. It is only when clocked well above 400Mhz does it really need the extra juice. Obviously there must be some truth in his statements, because an A2 version 6800 GT card that Firingsquad used was able to overclock fine to above Ultra levels, using only a single molex connector.

View this graph on power consumption here:

http://techreport.com/reviews/2004q2/radeon-x800/index.x?pg=27

Note that power consumption changes relatively little when moving from 350Mhz core/1.0Ghz mem (6800 GT) to 400Mhz core/1.1Ghz mem (6800 Ultra). However, when moving from 400Mhz core/1.1Ghz mem (6800 Ultra) to 450Mhz core/1.1Ghz mem (6800 Ultra Extreme), power demands go up rapidly. Presumably, NV feels that the 6800 Ultra needs to have enough headroom to overclock to near Ultra Extreme level, hence the need for two molex connectors.

As CainaM said, time will tell.

schuey74
05-07-04, 08:44 PM
You still don't exactly get it. The 6800 GT can be clocked at or above 6800 Ultra levels, even when using just it's single molex connector. The 6800 Ultra and Ultra variants need the second molex connector to account for clock frequencies when overclocked well above the 400Mhz stock core clock. Power requirements increase much more on the 6800 cards when moving from 400Mhz core to 450Mhz core, vs moving from 350Mhz core to 400Mhz core. That's why you see two molex connectors on the Ultra variants, and that's why you see a 6800 GT being overclocked to Ultra stock levels with little fanfare.
Get what? What Vamp's post clearly states and what Nvidia said when tehy launched the card?

Interesting feedback from BFGTech. It would seem that both plugs are very much needed for proper sustained operation of the 6800U.

"With one connector, we are getting some artifacting in 3DMark03 during
Battle of Proxycon and Trolls, but not much, some shimmering and black
lines. Played UT2004 no problem with one connector. "


Yes, continue to argue with facts. You may be able to run most apps, but problems will crop up and the more you go above Ultra clocks the more juice the card will be starving for.

CaiNaM
05-07-04, 09:14 PM
geez.. you guys with your speculation... is it really that important to dis on a product? is there any evidence that the 6800gt will not run at 400Mhz w/ 1 molex? no.

i have however seen at least 1 review that had the gt clocked at 425/1.2Ghz and did not mention any issues whatsoever.

if there are problems, we'll know soon enough. 'nuff said.

Clay
05-07-04, 10:24 PM
Bahhh that may be true, but that just tells me they are selling it overclocked out of the box.:confused:

I work in the manufacturing world and you don't add cost to a product just to make it cute or give it crap if it is not needed.Riight...such as:

RAM sinks
game bundles
VIVO chips
better than average quality capacitors
additional PCB layers
video cables
printed manuals
dome stickers
box art
tchotchkes
etc, etc

:p

That second molex cost money to add, and last time I checked Nivida was in business to make money. Its there for a reason and just so we can overclock our cards and void the warranty does not seem a valid reason from the company that makes them.

This is damage control plain and simple. People are crying about the power requirements and Nivida is like :retard: What???? We didn't really say you had to have a 480w power supply, it was just a nice suggestion. :screwy:

Let the back tracking begin!!! :spank:
:bs:

*sigh* The 480W was never a "requirement" it was a "recommendation"...two totally different words. It's already been proven time and again that 6800Ultras run just fine for stressed hours on end with a quality 300W PSU.

damita
05-07-04, 10:46 PM
*sigh* The 480W was never a "requirement" it was a "recommendation"...two totally different words. It's already been proven time and again that 6800Ultras run just fine for stressed hours on end with a quality 300W PSU.

the number of W on a PSU is often completely irrelevant. quality and how the power is split between the rails etc. are very important.

Clay
05-07-04, 10:49 PM
the number of W on a PSU is often completely irrelevant. quality and how the power is split between the rails etc. are very important.
Absolutely, I've said as much a number of times in the past regarding quality and rail usage. I'm not sure that I understand your point. Re-read my post, maybe I should have bolded quality 300W PSU in my post.