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Drew Carey
05-13-04, 01:54 AM
I've been waiting to upgrade my Geforce 3 for a while now. So...The 6800 Ultra and X800XT seem WAY overpriced and way over my budget. So it seems I'll be going with one of the second bests. So which would you guys recommend? Looking at the benches the X800XT seems really wicked but the PRO lies quite a bit behind, while I couldn't find many reviews to include the 6800 non-ultra and the 6800 Ultra together. Anyone got any?

Malichite
05-13-04, 02:00 AM
As always it seems to comes down to preference for either nVidia or ATI. I am very interested to see how the 6800nu OCs, but it really depends on what you want to play. The X800Pro is just another extension of the 9x00 line, so if you want to play games that have trouble with those (i.e. Morrowind, NWN, some with KOTOR), go nVidia. If instead you feel that ATI's drivers are finally maturing or surpassing nVidia then I would suggest them. Seems like it always falls down to the great :fanboy: battles. LOL.

-Mali

Jarred
05-13-04, 02:05 AM
I'd suggest the 6800GT

Drew Carey
05-13-04, 02:10 AM
Does anyone have any benches of the 6800nu? I can't seem to find mANY but from what I've seen it looks better. The X800PRO looks pretty dissapointing on certain occasions. Tell me Is the 6800GT the same as the 6800 nu? Is it a full 16 pipe counterpart? I'm really getting lost with all the variations.

Sazar
05-13-04, 02:19 AM
I can't wait for the ati x800 DBZ edition :D

that v/s the 6800 GT will be quite a battle...

smeagol
05-13-04, 02:21 AM
I can't wait for the ati x800 DBZ edition :D

that v/s the 6800 GT will be quite a battle...

Ati X800 DBZ edition? Never heard of that one? Special edition made by an Ati partner?

Sazar
05-13-04, 02:25 AM
probably Toonami...

Evildeus
05-13-04, 02:43 AM
lol :D

Ady
05-13-04, 03:28 AM
Does anyone have any benches of the 6800nu? I can't seem to find mANY but from what I've seen it looks better. The X800PRO looks pretty dissapointing on certain occasions. Tell me Is the 6800GT the same as the 6800 nu? Is it a full 16 pipe counterpart? I'm really getting lost with all the variations.


Forget about the 6800NU unless you're on a real budget. It won't come close to the X800PRO, the 6800GT should be more like but hey, the X800PRO Give the 6800U a hell of a run for it's money.

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjEx

Casper
05-13-04, 05:48 AM
The X800 PRO competes more with the 6800 GT and 6800 ULTRA than the 6800 NON ULTRA and X800SE...

the X800 PRO or 6800 GT would be my choice...

Drew Carey
05-13-04, 06:04 AM
Ady, There are no 6800nu benches in there...?
Anyways, I still don't have a good impression of the 6800nu performance as I can't find any benches. How much should the 6800GT retail for? And do you guys think the X800PRO is a better choice even though it lacks PS3.0 support, rendering it less useful for the future?

Casper
05-13-04, 06:18 AM
It´s yet to see how useful shader model 3 support is ;) As sad 99 % of the stuff can be done in PS 2.0 shaders the question is just if games in the future will run faster on a video card with PS 3.0 support but that I would guess we will have to wait for games like Unreal 3 for...

Nobody knows though... And a 6800 ULTRA is below the recommended specs for the Unreal 3 anyway...

If you are not going to overclock I would get a X800 PRO otherwise as it looks now you can really go either way and be perfectly fine...

D.K.Tronics
05-13-04, 06:54 AM
But why get a 12 pipeline X800 Pro, when you can get a full 16 pipline, PS3 equipped, 6800 GT, for less money ?
AND, overclock the hell out of that.

I know I'm selling this 9700 Pro, and going back to NVidia with the 6800 GT. I've been waiting to do this for a while, as the latest Cats aren't upto scratch, IMO.

Casper
05-13-04, 07:08 AM
Why because a 12 pipeline PS 2.x X800 PRO is in most cases still faster than a 6800 GT.

It will of course depend on how well these will overclock relatively to eachother. The X800PRO runs cooler and you may think that will mean it will overclock relatively higher too. Will be interesting to see. The 6800GT and x800 PRO seem to be quite similarly priced though.

For me with the little info we got it sure looks very much like a tie with the X800 PRO and the 6800 GT. The X800 PRO being a bit faster at stock speeds but both these should be some decent overclockers.

It can´t totally compete with the 6800 ULTRA which it was aimed at though and the prices will sure reflect that. As you may have seen both the x800XT and 6800 ULTRA sells for 500$...

Lfctony
05-13-04, 08:08 AM
Why because a 12 pipeline PS 2.x X800 PRO is in most cases still faster than a 6800 GT.



Allow me to disagree, as many others will do here. I believe the 6800GT is faster in most games over an X800 Pro, but the X800 Pro does shift that by doing exceptionally well in some games, like Farcry and AOD. But this is far from what you state, that the X800P is generally faster than a 6800GT. Also, an overclocked X800P will never reach performance of an X800XT, while a 6800GT being a fully featured chip will catch up to the high end models much easier.

Anyway, thats what I felt from reading the reviews.

Ady
05-13-04, 08:42 AM
Ady, There are no 6800nu benches in there...?



There is no 6800NU benches anywhere yet, because it doesn't exist yet. From memory the rumor on it was 325Mhz core and 350Mhz memory clocks for $299. (my memory might be a little off on that one though.) I woudn't expect to see it anytime soon either.

I showed you that link because it shows the X800PRO at least on par with the 6800U. Most previews showed it a little behind or a little ahead, pretty close for the most part. For at least $100 less and availability now, I think it wins IMO.


But why get a 12 pipeline X800 Pro, when you can get a full 16 pipline, PS3 equipped, 6800 GT, for less money ?
AND, overclock the hell out of that.

I hear a lot of people talking about the 12pipes vs 16pipes thing, but personally I don't care if it has one pipe or a million pipes, i want the card that performs better. I think it's a little early to tell that one.

For less money you say? How do you figure that one? btw, the X800PRO is one hell of an overclocker it seems. The GT might be too, it will be interesting to see how it turns out on the retail model. Does anyone know when they are expected in stores?

jbirney
05-13-04, 08:50 AM
I would personally wait till reviews come out on both products after they have launched. So far we dont really know much about etheir, nor do we know how they will OC, other limitations they may have, ect...

Celeborn
05-13-04, 09:02 AM
seeing as most intelligent reviewers, including myself, would pick the X800 pro over the 6800 ultra.. i would go ATI over NVIDIA.

look around..check out reviews man...when you turn on the eye candy the ATI cards wins just about every time. good hunting.

D.K.Tronics
05-13-04, 09:18 AM
For less money you say? How do you figure that one?

I'm a reseller in the UK. I build and sell PC systems and hardware, at home, with my own company.
I've seen the first prices to hit the UK, and the midrange Radeons are more expensive, albeit slightly.
The high-end X800XT, and the 6800U, are both neck and neck. Coming out at around £370-£399 inc VAT.

the X800PRO is one hell of an overclocker it seems. The GT might be too, it will be interesting to see how it turns out on the retail model

Unless the Pro can have it's 4 pipes unlocked, I don't see it myself, then the Pro will NEVER be an XT.
But the GT, by all accounts, is merely a lower clocked Ultra. Now if you can get these GT cards to near Ultra speeds, then by all accounts this is the best bang for buck card.

And just to edit, I want a change, so I'm going back to Nvidia. Been with ATI for over a year now, so it's time for a change.

Casper
05-13-04, 09:48 AM
I agree it sucks ATI decided to laser cut the X800 PRO but they still perform really well.

It´s funny since from what I heard ATI first thought a 8 pipeline x800 would be able to outperform the nVidia offerings then 12 pipeline and then they went for the 16 pipeline x800XT to be sure it sounds like.

True you can´t get x800XT performance with a X800 PRO but then you can´t with a 6800 GT either. If pipelines is your deal get the 6800 GT though ;)

If performance is the issue at hand it´s a really tough choice though...

Malichite
05-13-04, 10:47 AM
Apparently I had the names wrong in my earlier post, since I suggested waiting on the 6800 nu that should have been the 6800 GT. Either way I still have my hopes on the 6800 with full 16 pipeline at -50 Core and - 100 Mem from the specs I saw. With my 5900nu I was easily able to OC to 5900 ultra and even to 5950 levels, except only 128M ram. If that is possible the MSRP $399 card may become more attractive as price competition drives it to the $250-275 range in actual sales. The verdict is still out, but since the X800 Pro is just an faster extension of the 9x00 series all of my previous concerns with ATI remain firm. Of course now maybe they have the raw power to brute force through the Morrowind, NWN w/shadows, KOTOR w/shadows, etc issues. Hard to tell just yet.

-Mali

Spiritwalker
05-13-04, 12:07 PM
One point to mention seeing as many are suggesting overclocking the GT. As it appears there will be no UE edition officially from nV it may be safe to assume that hitting these higher clock speeds is a lot harder than first thought on the nV40 architecture. It is possible that nV is already binning the 6800U chips and for the time being the GT cards may be close to being maxed out unless you have a watercooling system. Whereas most all of the tested x800Pro cards seem to overclock by up to 20% so far. While not in the x800XT area they in a cpu limited system are pretty damn close all the way up to 16x12 in a heavy AA and AF environment.

D.K.Tronics
05-13-04, 12:18 PM
But all we are talking about is a GT card hitting ULTRA speeds (or close to), Nothing to do with UE speeds.
If a GT can hit ultra speeds, then it's going to be THE best card for your money, as the Pro will never hit the XT speeds.
And as CPU's get faster, so does the GT. So it becomes less of an upgrade issue, 6 months down the line. Yet the Pro will get left behind, as it's still stuck on 12 pipelines, while the XT, GT, and Ultra, will just get faster.

Until people actually have these cards in their own machines, with decent drivers, then we can only speculate.
I'm only going with the GT, as I believe it to be more future proof. Especially when I upgrade my whole machine, and go Athlon 64, later in the year. And I believe the Pro will hit more limits than the GT.
And just to edit, I believe, because of the above, that the least future proof of them all, is going to be the 6800 non ultra. But thats more aimed at current spec PC's.

Spiritwalker
05-13-04, 12:21 PM
NO what I am saying is that the GT may not even hit Ultra speeds. Not UE speeds.

D.K.Tronics
05-13-04, 12:23 PM
NO what I am saying is that the GT may not even hit Ultra speeds. Not UE speeds

Ahh right, you could be right then.
But we'll all know soon. And the sooner the better. ;)

In the end, the real winners of all this ain't ATI or NVidia.
It's you and me :)