When will NV30 arrive?

[Uttar]

Originally posted by |TX|-LORD-EX-BU
I'm looking forward to the next thing ATI puts out now. I've had it with nVIDIA. Ever since I saw that 9700 running with DDRII on TechTV ATI won me over and proved to me that they are the leader and are on the ball. I mean, nVIDIA doesn't even have a DDRII part running right now, while ATI can go on TV and give demostration of the hardware. And they had multiple DDR II boards running in that room, so that means that they not only have the drivers for it, but that they feel confident enough in the hardware to make a few of them and show them off. Great job ATI!

Err, because you think nVidia would show their products like that? They never did so. Their company policy is simple: NO information about unannounced products. None. They don't want that to get out.

Did they show the GeForce3 at TechTV several months before it's out? No. And they wouldn't do it, while ATI would do it. And why is that? Because right now, ATI still isn't as big as nVidia and they want to make people think nVidia is losing and the NV30 is going to to be slower than the R300 so everybody buys the R300 before the NV30 is launched.


Uttar

[StealthHawk]

Originally posted by |TX|-LORD-EX-BU
I'm looking forward to the next thing ATI puts out now. I've had it with nVIDIA. Ever since I saw that 9700 running with DDRII on TechTV ATI won me over and proved to me that they are the leader and are on the ball. I mean, nVIDIA doesn't even have a DDRII part running right now, while ATI can go on TV and give demostration of the hardware. And they had multiple DDR II boards running in that room, so that means that they not only have the drivers for it, but that they feel confident enough in the hardware to make a few of them and show them off. Great job ATI!

and you somehow magically know that NV30 won't use ddrII?

the only reason any speculation was made as to NV30 not using it was because JEDEC didn't announce official specs yet. but low and behold, that hasn't stopped ATI, why should it affect nvidia either then?

[jbirney]

They never did so. Their company policy is simple: NO information about unannounced products. None. They don't want that to get out.

Not to nitpick but there CEO does not seem to be following all of that in sprit. Back in May he stated some info on the card. (transistor size and ship date)

[Joe DeFuria]

Yes, and let's not just conveniently forget the "Cg" launch which had slides that talked about "NV30" architecture.

This time around, nVidia certainly is "talking" about NV30 before it's launched.

It's ATI who is now keeping their mouths shut until they actually have products to at least demonstrate.

[LORD-eX-Bu]

Originally posted by Joe DeFuria
Yes, and let's not just conveniently forget the "Cg" launch which had slides that talked about "NV30" architecture.

This time around, nVidia certainly is "talking" about NV30 before it's launched.

It's ATI who is now keeping their mouths shut until they actually have products to at least demonstrate.

Did you miss this thing of TechTV a few days ago? They demonstrated one of their cards running DDR-II with a better memory architecture. They have been talking about it and are demonstrating it to the public, instead of waiting who knows how long for this conferrence to paper launch a card nobody really knows nothing about and expect everyone to get up and buy one.

[Bigus Dickus]

I don't understand. The card on TSS just had different memory. Probably not even running any faster than the current R300's DDR memory. If it had any core changes, they didn't mention it.

That particular configuration might not even be slated for consumers, but simply an engineering sample to validate the operation of DDR-II memory with the R300's memory controller.

So, how again were they tipping their hand by simply showing that they had strapped some DDR-II onto an R300 board which they have claimed was capable of using DDR-II since the tech previews in August?

[LORD-eX-Bu]

It is not slated for consumers, just to show everyone that if ATI wanted to put out a DDR-II card they could do it very soon. The card did have DDR-2 Memory and also an improved memory architecture. They also had examples of the origional 9700 Pro Vs. 9700 Pro with DDR-2. It was very impressive.

[Bigus Dickus]

Originally posted by |TX|-LORD-EX-BU
They also had examples of the origional 9700 Pro Vs. 9700 Pro with DDR-2. It was very impressive.

No, they didn't. I watched the show. I don't understand where people keep getting this from???

[LORD-eX-Bu]

Did you not see the split screen display? Or am I wrong?:confused:

[Uttar]

Originally posted by jbirney
Not to nitpick but there CEO does not seem to be following all of that in sprit. Back in May he stated some info on the card. (transistor size and ship date)

And that's for-investor useless info. Most investors got NO idea what DDRII is, how programmable shaders are different from TnL, ...

So really, he's just saying things nobody wants to know so that investors are a little less unhappy.

And no, no nVidia slides ever had any direct information about NV30. That's the CineFX architecture, which is part of the NV30. So basically, they announced CineFX, but not NV30. Yeah, it's strange, but what do you want? :)


Uttar

[StealthHawk]

Originally posted by |TX|-LORD-EX-BU
It is not slated for consumers, just to show everyone that if ATI wanted to put out a DDR-II card they could do it very soon. The card did have DDR-2 Memory and also an improved memory architecture. They also had examples of the origional 9700 Pro Vs. 9700 Pro with DDR-2. It was very impressive.

sounds more like sleight of hand to divert attention away from nvidia, much like nvidia did with CineFX to draw away attention from the R9700.

showing off one card or what not with no specs given doesn't "show" anyone anything.

[legion88]

Originally posted by Joe DeFuria
Lol...Simplest riddle I ever came across.

Do you actually read those quotes you post?

Let me repeat the important part, and I'll add some emphasis for you.



Let me spell it out for you:

The chip can "arrive" in August (whater arrive means), and as long as we can buy the product between August and the end of the year, everything is Kosher with what the analyst claims.

You know, for example, if the product was "announced" in August, and didn't actually start shipping until October. Some riddle...

Next...:rolleyes:

Oh yes, the good 'ol dishonest selective quoter is at it again.

For those of you who didn't read the news.com article, the comment from Huang was printed on May 1, 2002 (Wednesday), refering to the speculative statement made by Huang two days earlier (Monday).

Thus, continued growth "this year" covers any point in time after April 29 (the day Huang made that statement), not after August.

Huang speculative statement, made in April, is a no-brainer. The GF4 series of cards was announced in late February but was not available to be purchased until April. In other words, the bulk of the sales of new NV products has just started in the second quarter. (NVIDIA didn't have any new products to sell in the first quarter, that I can remember.)

NVIDIA anticipated growth from second quarter, going forward. NVIDIA was simply stating the obvious to investors and potential investors, especially since there were no competition to the GF4s at the time.

But all that is beside the point. Defuria wants you to focus on the words "this year" and not on the words "market share" like you should.

A company can not reasonably expect to increase market share if the consumer can not buy their product. The author of the article, Ian Fried, speculated that some of that growth in market share would come from the NV30, which he claims would "arrive" in August.

Here's the definition of "market share" (emphasis added):
The proportion of industry sales of a good or service that is controlled by a company.http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=market%20share

Do I have to define what "sales" mean too?

Defuria, in his infinite non-wisdom, claims that "arrive" does not necessarily mean you can buy the NV30 from stores. Thus, Defuria wants us to believe that a company can increase market share without selling anything. (We should call this the 3dfx theory of market share gains--sitting on your rears while pushing out paper press releases on how good you are and doing interviews result in market share gains.)

Here's the quote again from Fried:
Some of that will come from a new graphics chip slated to arrive in August.

Notice the word "that"? What is this "that"? The "that" refers to gains in market share. Fill in the blanks:

Some of the market share gains will come from a new graphics chip slated to arrive in August.

By definition, "market share gains" means that the company is selling more. Thus, arrive refers to buying from stores in August (an August date that contradicts the date from ReactorCritical, which they claimed October.)

You would not be able to figure all this out if you didn't read the full quote. You will need the other sentence in the paragraph to be able to determine from context what Fried meant. Defuria was unable to muster enough energy to quote the other sentence in this two-sentence paragraph.

Defuria is a dishonest individual who tries to trick people with his selective quoting. This is not an opinion. This is fact and I just gave you an example.

Keep in mind that Defuria started this thread for a "purpose". Defuria is simply a 3dfx fan who can't let go. I used to argue against this particular breed of 3dfx fans more than a year or two ago.

Look at what "tricky" Joe Defuria did recently. He started a new thread for the purpose of arguing over what was meant by "arrive". 3dfx is dead. Time to move on.

[Uttar]

I'm sorry, but i agree with DeFuria on that riddle.

Let me quote you, legion88:
[quote]
Some of that will come from a new graphics chip slated to arrive in August.


Notice the word "that"? What is this "that"? The "that" refers to gains in market share. Fill in the blanks:


Some of the market share gains will come from a new graphics chip slated to arrive in August.
[quote]

Hmm, no. It doesn't refer to that. It refers to "market share gains this year".

That means that some of the market share gain for the year will come from the new graphics chip slated to arrive in August.

That doesn't mean the graphics chip impact on sales will be made during August. It means the impact will happen on the yearly result.

While i think the meaning of "arrive" is very hard to agree on, i really can't find any other way to understand what this reporter meant.


Uttar

[ReDeeMeR]

Digit-Life sends word that Leadtek has announced their latest graphics card roadmap. All provided details are listed below.
WinFast A180 DDR TDH - GeForce4 MX440 AGP 8X (NV18), 64MB DDR, large cooler, Hardware Monitor, AGP 8X, DVI-I, 9 games, WinFast utilities, DVD player - November 2002

WinFast A180 DDR TDH, MyVIVO - the same plus video in/out, Ulead VideoStudio 6 SE DVD, WinFast Cinema support (onboard socket for upgrade to WinFast Cinema) - November 2002

WinFast A280 LE TDH - GeForce4 Ti4200 AGP 8X (NV28), 64/128MB DDR, double-sided cooler, Hardware Monitor, AGP 8X, DVI-I, 9 games, WinFast utilities, DVD player - November 2002

WinFast A280 LE TDH, MyVIVO - the same plus video in/out, Ulead VideoStudio 6 SE DVD, WinFast Cinema support (onboard socket for upgrade to WinFast Cinema) - November 2002

WinFast A330 (provisional plans) - NVIDIA 5G chip (NV30?), 128MB DDR , AGP 8X, DirectX 9 support. The release is TBA

[StealthHawk]

hmm....so it has 128MB of RAM. that's what the R9700Pro launched with, isn't it? it would be silly to ship with 64 anymore, and 256 is probably too much for an intial product launch.

[SavagePaladin]

Originally posted by |TX|-LORD-EX-BU
I'm looking forward to the next thing ATI puts out now. I've had it with nVIDIA. Ever since I saw that 9700 running with DDRII on TechTV ATI won me over and proved to me that they are the leader and are on the ball. I mean, nVIDIA doesn't even have a DDRII part running right now, while ATI can go on TV and give demostration of the hardware. And they had multiple DDR II boards running in that room, so that means that they not only have the drivers for it, but that they feel confident enough in the hardware to make a few of them and show them off. Great job ATI!

This is bloody SILLY
A demonstration of an engineering sample? Who CARES? It shows nothing of how the quality would be if they released it right now, unless the rest of the card wasn't changed at all, and it means absolutely NOTHING with regards to NVidias product.

Good lord. My brain is going to explode because of this lack of sense.

Maybe once I can compare the boards, I'll still think back on this post and laugh my ass off.

[borntosoul]

hehe we can all come back and look at how ridiculous most of these posts have been ! thats the fun part :)

[SavagePaladin]

Maybe, but if my brain explodes, that won't be fun <g>

[ReDeeMeR]

I see you dont understand

WinFast A330 (provisional plans) - NVIDIA 5G chip (NV30?), 128MB DDR , AGP 8X, DirectX 9 support. The release is TBA

It's either no better then r300 or we're indeed are gettin more then one version of nv30 and Leadtek lets us clearly see that the ddrII one isnt going to be on their product list, probably cause of insane price...

[Mod]

Maybe Joe meant that "arrive" can be aplied to the NV30 right after the chip recording stage and when the board features are still being adjusted,or something similar. Like the R300 they used to run Doom 3 beta ... It's just a guess... Don't bash me please :) .

[StealthHawk]

Originally posted by ReDeeMeR
I see you dont understand

WinFast A330 (provisional plans) - NVIDIA 5G chip (NV30?), 128MB DDR , AGP 8X, DirectX 9 support. The release is TBA

It's either no better then r300 or we're indeed are gettin more then one version of nv30 and Leadtek lets us clearly see that the ddrII one isnt going to be on their product list, probably cause of insane price...

either that or they just omitted the II. it's not like a lot of these companies are flawless. they make a lot of mistakes. besides the whole thing being "provisional plans" doesn't cast anything in stone.

[LORD-eX-Bu]

I'll have to see how much better the NV30 is over the R300, if it is just marginal or not a whole lot, then its R300. Oh yeah, and if the price kills too, like, I ain't gonna pay $400 for any video card.

[INNOVISION]

OMG, I head hurts reading all the post in this thread. But anyway, I know that Iam getting a NV30 instead of R300 or R350. How about you ?

[ReDeeMeR]

I dont know yet, if Ati isnt going to do some even more stable drivers(NFS:Hot Pursuit 2 AGP8x problem etc) and some speed optimizations then r300 just isnt worth cause my Ti4600 still cuts the mustard quite good and I'm a student so money aint growing on ma ass

[jbirney]

Defuria is simply a 3dfx fan who can't let go.

Pot, Kettle, Black.