DNC to market Fahrenheit 9/11

[UDawg]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A37869-2004May18.html

Hey wait a minute. I thought it was bad to use 9/11 for politics? What is Moore doing here?

[vampireuk]

He also wants it released on the 4th of July, wheres my cartman picture gone...

http://www.vampireuk.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/mooreman.jpg

[PsychoSy]

While my new film Fahrenheit 9/11 has not been seen yet, it seems to have already generated a wee bit of interest.

Here's the latest. This morning, a columnist for the Wall Street Journal - who has not seen the film - has decided, instead, to review a "synopsis" of the film. That's right, a "synopsis" from a fax of an early version of a press release someone gave him from the studio. Based on this, he accuses the film of being inaccurate. But guess what? Everything he says about the film in his column is completely false. I mean, seriously, NOTHING of what he describes is in the film!

Most real journalists would be embarrassed to do such a thing. What's next - "I can't see the film, I can't see the synopsis - so I'm reviewing the poster!" I worry that Fahrenheit 9/11 is already driving otherwise sane people to lunacy.

What would you expect from the WSJ, the biggest pro-business, pro-war paper in the country. As they so aptly put in their paper today: "The bad news is that in today's freewheeling media environment, consumers seem increasingly unable to distinguish truth from fiction, news from polemic, reality from fantasy." This morning, they proved their own adage to be correct. They gave us fiction, not the truth.

Here's a radical idea: Why don't we wait for the film to come out before attacking it? I promise you the film is much better than the "synopsis."

- Michael Moore

Oh, how the truth doth sting ... :D

Another interesting backstory about F-9/11 ....

In April of 2003, I signed a deal with Miramax, a division of the Walt Disney Co., to finance and distribute my next movie, Fahrenheit 9/11. (The original financier had backed out; I will tell that story at a later date.) In my contract it is stated that Miramax will distribute my film in the U.S. through Disney's distribution arm, Buena Vista Distribution. It also gives Miramax the rights to distribute and sell the movie around the world.

A month later, after shooting started, Michael Eisner insisted on meeting with my agent, Ari Emanuel. Eisner was furious that Miramax signed this deal with me. According to Mr. Emanuel, Eisner said he would never let my film be distributed through Disney even though Mr. Eisner had not seen any footage or even read the outline of the film. Eisner told my agent that he did not want to anger Jeb Bush, the governor of Florida. The movie, he believed, would complicate an already complicated situation with current and future Disney projects in Florida, and that many millions of dollars of tax breaks and incentives were at stake.

But Michael Eisner did not call Miramax and tell them to stop my film. Not only that, for the next year, SIX MILLION dollars of DISNEY money continued to flow into the production of making my movie. Miramax assured me that there were no distribution problems with my film.

But then, a few weeks ago when Fahrenheit 9/11 was selected to be in the Cannes Film Festival, Disney sent a low-level production executive to New York to watch the film (to this day, Michael Eisner has not seen the film). This exec was enthusiastic throughout the viewing. He laughed, he cried and at the end he thanked us. "This film is explosive," he exclaimed, and we took that as a positive sign. But “explosive” for these guys is only a good word when it comes to blowing up things in movies. OUR kind of “explosive” is what they want to run from as fast as they can.

Miramax did their best to convince Disney to go ahead as planned with our film. Disney contractually can only stop Miramax from releasing a film if it has received an NC-17 rating (ours will be rated PG-13 or R).

According to yesterday's New York Times, the issue of whether to release Fahrenheit 9/11 was discussed at Disney's board meeting last week. It was decided that Disney should not distribute our movie.

Man ... first the NRA, and now Mickey Mouse!! :p

Again, I gotta ask -- how threatening can this ugly ol' fatass be?!? :D

[vampireuk]

He is about as threatening as a wet sponge, all he does is lie.

[DiscipleDOC]

He is about as threatening as a wet sponge, all he does is lie.

I think he'll do more damage to them than good.

[PsychoSy]

I think he'll do more damage to them than good.

About 13 years ago, I said the same thing about Newt Gringrich!

Then, out of nowhere, came The Contract With America ...

He shoulda stopped while he was ahead but he just haaaad to go after Clinton ... :D :p

all he does is lie.

Like I said before, if he's lying about all this stuff in Bowling For Columbine, where's the lawsuits? Where's the settlements for damages? Where's the demands that the movie be yanked off the shelves until Moore and the movie studio agrees to add disclaimers?

Isn't it ironic --

Everyone in Congress is scared to death of the NRA.
But the NRA is scared to death of Micheal Moore!

:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

[vampireuk]

Try reading the website bowling for the truth instead of simply asking where the law suits are, he blatantly lies all the way through that movie and edits conversations and speeches to suit his own fat ass agenda.

b....bbb....bbbb....buuu...but where are the lawsuits :lol2: :angel:

[UDawg]

About 13 years ago, I said the same thing about Newt Gringrich!

Then, out of nowhere, came The Contract With America ...

He shoulda stopped while he was ahead but he just haaaad to go after Clinton ...

Newt Never whent after Clinton. You can go back and look at the record. Newt had his own peronal problems and he knew to shut up.

Now wrt The Contract with America, it was a brilliant move by Newt and that is why you guys hate it so much. It helped to get conservatives elected and balanced the budget and gave us the "projected" surplus. All of that good that came out of the 90s happened right after conservatives were elected, before that the dems were doing nothing.

[UDawg]

Like I said before, if he's lying about all this stuff in Bowling For Columbine, where's the lawsuits? Where's the settlements for damages? Where's the demands that the movie be yanked off the shelves until Moore and the movie studio agrees to add disclaimers?

Isn't it ironic --

Everyone in Congress is scared to death of the NRA.
But the NRA is scared to death of Micheal Moore!

:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

What are you talking about "lawsuits"? Ther is nothing to sew. It is a opinion piece. You can't sew Moore because he staged a gun buy scene that did not happen the way he said it did. You can't sew because he linked Heston's speech right before the shootings. This is a dumb argument Psy. It makes no sense.

I saw most of the movie for the first time last Saturday evening. It was cleaver and well done and entertaining and for the most part on his take on American society Moor is correct. The parts I disagree with is his lies and silly conclusions, for example: He keeps comparing America to Canada and making the point that they have just as many guns per person as the US but yet the US has a problem with guns and Canada doesn't. His solution is gun control. He was doing good until the end. The problem is that we have a culture of violence but that is a culture problem not a gun problem as his comparisons showed.

[PsychoSy]

What are you talking about "lawsuits"? Ther is nothing to sew. It is a opinion piece.

An opinion peice -- according to Republicans, Conservatives, and Gun-Right's activitists -- grossly distorts the facts and, with deceptive editing, slanders and vilifies Charlton Heston, etc. etc. Last time I checked, if someone purposefully makes a bold, public claim about a person or group, they can be held liable for damages including slander, libel, defamation of character, and the list goes on and on.

You can't sew Moore because he staged a gun buy scene that did not happen the way he said it did.

Yeah, and he showed up at a random Michigan newspaper had conspired this add to be Photoshopped ...

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/wackoattacko/images/ad_bankgun.jpg

And then had this made up, too!!

http://ggnra.org/newsletters/2001/feb/page4.shtml

C'mon!! The NRA is a hardline organization with lots of money and support. Don't you think that their lawyers would comb over that film looking for any kind of technicality to call it on the legal carpet with? You bet your ass they would. And they've probably did ... and came up with nothing, hence no lawsuits.

Then again, with this serving as Defense Exhibit A (http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/wackoattacko/movie.php?mov=bank-full) (requires Quicktime and an open mind)

You can't sew because he linked Heston's speech right before the shootings.

Defense Exhibit B (http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/wackoattacko/movie.php?mov=heston) (Again, requires Quicktime and an open mind)

This footage centers on the Heston speech in Denver where Moore claims, "From the end of my narration setting up Heston's speech in Denver, with my words, 'a big pro-gun rally,' every word out of Charlton Heston's mouth was uttered right there in Denver, just 10 days after the Columbine tragedy."

I gotta run -- severe storm in the area with 70MPH winds and golfball sized hail!! :(

[UDawg]

An opinion peice -- according to Republicans, Conservatives, and Gun-Right's activitists -- grossly distorts the facts and, with deceptive editing, slanders and vilifies Charlton Heston, etc. etc. Last time I checked, if someone purposefully makes a bold, public claim about a person or group, they can be held liable for damages including slander, libel, defamation of character, and the list goes on and on.

So you are saying if there isn't a lawsuit then they are not lies? That is messed up logic.

The lady at the bank that took his applacation said it was staged. No one ever said they were not giving gun out as an incentive.


2. NRA and the Reaction To Tragedy. A major theme in Bowling is that NRA is callous toward slayings. In order to make this theme fit the facts, however, Bowling repeatedly distorts the evidence.

A. Columbine Shooting/Denver NRA Meeting. Bowling portrays this with the following sequence:

Weeping children outside Columbine;

Cut to Charlton Heston holding a musket and proclaiming "I have only five words for you: 'from my cold, dead, hands'";

Cut to billboard advertising the meeting, while Moore intones "Just ten days after the Columbine killings, despite the pleas of a community in mourning, Charlton Heston came to Denver and held a large pro-gun rally for the National Rifle Association;"

Cut to Heston (supposedly) continuing speech... "I have a message from the Mayor, Mr. Wellington Webb, the Mayor of Denver. He sent me this; it says 'don't come here. We don't want you here.' I say to the Mayor this is our country, as Americans we're free to travel wherever we want in our broad land. Don't come here? We're already here!"

The portrayal is one of an arrogant protest in response to the deaths -- or, as one reviewer put it, "it seemed that Charlton Heston and others rushed to Littleton to hold rallies and demonstrations directly after the tragedy." The portrayal is in fact false.


Fact: The Denver event was not a demonstration relating to Columbine, but an annual meeting (see links below), whose place and date had been fixed years in advance.


Fact: At Denver, the NRA cancelled all events (normally several days of committee meetings, sporting events, dinners, and rallies) save the annual members' voting meeting -- that could not be cancelled because the state law governing nonprofits required that it be held. [No way to change location, since under NY law you have to give 10 days' advance notice of that to the members, there were upwards of 4,000,000 members -- and Columbine happened 11 days before the scheduled meeting.] As a newspaper reported:

In a letter to NRA members Wednesday, President Charlton Heston and the group's executive vice president, Wayne LaPierre, said all seminars, workshops, luncheons, exhibits by gun makers and other vendors, and festivities are canceled.

All that's left is a members' reception with Rep. J.C. Watts, R-Okla., and the annual meeting, set for 10 a.m. May 1 in the Colorado Convention Center.

Under its bylaws and New York state law, the NRA must hold an annual meeting.

The NRA convention April 30-May 2 was expected to draw 22,000 members and give the city a $17.9 million economic boost.

"But the tragedy in Littleton last Tuesday calls upon us to take steps, along with dozens of other planned public events, to modify our schedule to show our profound sympathy and respect for the families and communities in the Denver area in their time of great loss," Heston and LaPierre wrote.


Fact: Heston's "cold dead hands" speech, which leads off Moore's depiction of the Denver meeting, was not given at Denver after Columbine. It was given a year later in Charlotte, North Carolina, and was his gesture of gratitude upon his being given a handmade musket, at that annual meeting.

Fact: When Bowling continues on to the speech which Heston did give in Denver, it carefully edits it to change its theme.

Moore's fabrication here cannot be described by any polite term. It is a lie, a fraud, and a few other things. Carrying it out required a LOT of editing to mislead the viewer, as I will show below. I transcribed Heston's speech as Moore has it, and compared it to a news agency's transcript, color coding the passages. CLICK HERE for the comparison, with links to the original transcript.

Moore has actually taken audio of seven sentences, from five different parts of the speech, and a section given in a different speech entirely, and spliced them together. Each edit is cleverly covered by inserting a still or video footage for a few seconds.

First, right after the weeping victims, Moore puts on Heston's "I have only five words for you . . . cold dead hands" statement, making it seem directed at them. As noted above, it's actually a thank-you speech given a year later in North Carolina.

Moore then has an interlude -- a visual of a billboard and his narration. This is vital. He can't go directly to Heston's real Denver speech. If he did that, you might ask why Heston in mid-speech changed from a purple tie and lavender shirt to a white shirt and red tie, and the background draperies went from maroon to blue. Moore has to separate the two segments.
http://www.hardylaw.net/hestondenver.jpg http://www.hardylaw.net/hestondenver.jpg http://www.hardylaw.net/hestondenver.jpg

Moore's second edit (covered by splicing in a pan shot of the crowd) deletes Heston's announcement that NRA has in fact cancelled most of its meeting:

"As you know, we've cancelled the festivities, the fellowship we normally enjoy at our annual gatherings. This decision has perplexed a few and inconvenienced thousands. As your president, I apologize for that."

Moore then cuts to Heston noting that Denver's mayor asked NRA not to come, and shows Heston replying "I said to the Mayor: As Americans, we're free to travel wherever we want in our broad land. Don't come here? We're already here!" as if in defiance.

Actually, Moore put an edit right in the middle of the first sentence, and another at its end! Heston really said (with reference his own WWII vet status) "I said to the mayor, well, my reply to the mayor is, I volunteered for the war they wanted me to attend when I was 18 years old. Since then, I've run small errands for my country, from Nigeria to Vietnam. I know many of you here in this room could say the same thing."

Moore cuts it after "I said to the Mayor" and attaches a sentence from the end of the next paragraph: "As Americans, we're free to travel wherever we want in our broad land." He hides the deletion by cutting to footage of protestors and a photo of the Mayor before going back and showing Heston.

Moore has Heston then triumphantly announce "Don't come here? We're already here!" Actually, that sentence is clipped from a segment five paragraphs farther on in the speech. Again, Moore uses an editing trick to cover the doctoring, switching to a pan shot of the audience as Heston's (edited) voice continues.

What Heston said there was:

"NRA members are in city hall, Fort Carson, NORAD, the Air Force Academy and the Olympic Training Center. And yes, NRA members are surely among the police and fire and SWAT team heroes who risked their lives to rescue the students at Columbine.

Don't come here? We're already here. This community is our home. Every community in America is our home. We are a 128-year-old fixture of mainstream America. The Second Amendment ethic of lawful, responsible firearm ownership spans the broadest cross section of American life imaginable.

So, we have the same right as all other citizens to be here. To help shoulder the grief and share our sorrow and to offer our respectful, reassured voice to the national discourse that has erupted around this tragedy."

"NRA members are, above all, Americans. That means that whatever our differences, we are respectful of one another and we stand united, especially in adversity."

I recently discovered that Moore has set up a new webpage to respond to a chosen few points of criticism, one of which is his, er, creative editing of Heston's speech. Click here for a link to his page, and for my response to his attempted defense of what he did. Basically, Moore contends that he didn't mean for the viewer to get the impression that "cold dead hands" was spoken at Denver -- that just "appears as Heston is being introduced in narration." As for the rest, well, "Far from deliberately editing the film to make Heston look worse, I chose to leave most of this out and not make Heston look as evil as he actually was." Sure. That's why he left out: "As you know, we've cancelled the festivities, the fellowship we normally enjoy at our annual gatherings."

Like I said, I just watch it and this recount of what happend with that whole scene is dead on.

This is your brain :) . This is your brain on Michael Moore :retard: . Any questions?

[vampireuk]

I like how you ignore how I told you to read that site and really learn about bowling for columbine...

[PsychoSy]

So you are saying if there isn't a lawsuit then they are not lies? That is messed up logic.

No, you're just doing what you always do, Udawg -- you're reading more into what I'm saying. What I'm saying is if these are indeed lies -- lies of the utmost detail, carefully constructed to mislead people into believing an untruth about someone else -- then my opinion of the matter is the victim being slandered and defamed in such a manner must not give that much of a rat's ass to set the record straight if they don't get off their dead ass and stand up for themselves. In other words, if I were Heston and saw "Bowling's" carefully orchestrated and deceptive editing that falsely painted me as a racist and an emotionless, cold-hearted bastard ... I'd sue Micheal Moore's white ass off!! The last thing I'd do is absolutely nothing, thus letting the SOB get away with it time and time again (which, if Hardylaw.net's expose is indeed true, Moore is doing whenever someone shells out $20 for the "Bowling" DVD).

The lady at the bank that took his application said it was staged.

Link?

I'm sorry, but I gotta have something better than just heresay. And besides, there could be a number of factors that would motivate the bank representive to say it was staged, particularly for publicity. If the bank experianced an increase of business as a result of the movie, they certainly won't say the event was staged because that'd effect PR, and thus effect business. However, if the bank received a substantial decrease in business and/or bad press, that's more incentive for them to say the event was staged -- again -- for PR reasons! It could take the wind out of Moore's sails and the bad PR would slowly turn positive, thus effecting business. You can't forget that this bank is a business -- they want to make money, right? Also, is it safe to assume this lady would like to stay employed?!? If the bank isn't making money, that lady could find her hours slashed or find herself in the unemployment line (which, in Michigan, is akin to standing in line at Disneyland and requires filling out sooooo much paperwork, you'd swear it's April 15th).

Under such circumstances, whether the event is staged or genuine does not matter one way or the other. At the end of the day, you can probably bank on the possibility (no pun intended) that this lady simply weighs matters in relation to their importance ... and her wallet or job security is probably alot more important than some movie made by a fat man.

Who would blame her?

[UDawg]

I didn't read anything more into what you posted. It was quite plain what you were arguing. That is what you said. Don't now dump it off on me.

The lady at the bank said that it was staged in an interview with reporters. Do I have the article, no. That was a while ago.

You didn't even touch my rebuttle to your 10 days after the shootings lie by Moore. Like I said I watched last nite and was giggling at the flaws after reading the dates of the actual speeches and the text of the speeches. This little scene ALONE proves he is in fact a liar and a poor one at that.

Well have fun defending the "portly propagandist". :)

[Ninja Prime]

Yeah, and he showed up at a random Michigan newspaper had conspired this add to be Photoshopped ...

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/wackoattacko/images/ad_bankgun.jpg

What's wrong with that? It appears to me that they're essentially giving you a free gift of one of these fine firearms with a purchase of a peice of their compay stock. It's essentially the same thing as givng shareholders free samples of their product. What, are you saying these buinesses should be limited when others aren't? Read it carefully now, I know you libs like to pretend "OMFG!!!!1111 They're giving away free guns to everyone!" :rolleyes:

Most people know that firearms keep their value better than most other investments.

[UDawg]

What Moore showed was that he signed up for the bank account and got the gun at the same time. In reality what happened was he had to wait for the gun a few days later yet he showed it all on the same day. That was the lie he showed and this is what the lady said.

[Ninja Prime]

What Moore showed was that he signed up for the bank account and got the gun at the same time. In reality what happened was he had to wait for the gun a few days later yet he showed it all on the same day. That was the lie he showed and this is what the lady said.

LOL, I see. What was this trying to prove? You can buy a gun and get it on the same day? Err... that is the way it works everywhere in the US as far as I know, except handguns, and even then many states let you get them the same day. Or maybe he was trying to say you can get a "free" gun the same day, when in actuality he paid several thousand dollars under contract to get it?

Either way, he's lying and a moron. Well, at least he has a few morons that will believe him without checking it out for themselves. :rolleyes:

[PsychoSy]

What Moore showed was that he signed up for the bank account and got the gun at the same time. In reality what happened was he had to wait for the gun a few days later yet he showed it all on the same day. That was the lie he showed and this is what the lady said.

Bzzzzzt!!!

Not according to the out-takes, where the manager is shown explaining the whole promotion ...

TELLER 2: You do a CD and we'll hand you a gun. We have a whole brochure here that you can look at.

MOORE: Mmm-hmm. All right.

TELLER 2: Once we do the background check and everything.

MOORE: Right, right.

TELLER 2: It's yours to go.

MOORE: Ok. Um, all right. Well that, um, that's the account I'd like to open.

TELLER 2: We have a vault which at all times we keep at least five hundred fire arms.

MOORE: Five hundred of these you have in your vault?

TELLER 2: In our vault.

MOORE: Wow.

TELLER 2: We have to do a background check.

MOORE: At the bank here or - ?

TELLER 2: At the bank. Which we are a licensed fire arm dealer.

Also in the out-takes, the same lady is explaining to Moore just before she faxes the information for the background check that in the event that they didn't have the particular gun he wanted in their on-site vault, then he would have to wait because the bank would fax all their information to the gun manufacturer (in this case, Weatherby) and then the gun manufacturer would then ship the gun to a licensed gun dealer for Moore to pick up later as long as he had the proper identification and North County paperwork ...

Moments later, a guy is shown walking up to Moore's right hand side with the Weatherby Mark V rifle in a cardboard box. They pull it out of the container and -- being the complete gun dullard Moore is -- he is shown asking this guy to briefly demonstrate the gun (i.e. where the safety is, etc.). The lady then tells him that everything checks out, thanks Moore for his business, and says, "Enjoy your gun" which Moore is still holding in his right hand.

I scrutinized these out-takes to see if there was evidence to support your claim of a waiting period. The easiest thing to look for is wardrope changes and/or things out of place and I saw none. Both Micheal Moore and the lady are wearing the same clothing throughout all the scenes. Since Micheal Moore hasn't changed his clothes in 20 years ... I admit paying more attention to the lady than him. She just doesn't strike me as the type of lady that would wear the same clothing for 2-3 days for continuity's sake (nor the type of lady that would purposefully remember what she wore in minute detail in order to wear these articles days later for the sake of the fatman's movie) ;)

Therefore, knowing Michigan like I do, I have a damn good gut feeling that North County experianced a blow to business and bad PR after "Bowling" was released and, like any business, will do or say anything to minimalize the damage done to their public image. And such businesses hardly need to show proof of their allegations -- they simply have to say something, knowing full-well that some people will readily believe it, especially those that are apologetic to businesses or those who simply lack the intellectual chops to uncover the truth for themselves.

[vampireuk]

Care to address all his other lies and manipulations? ;)

[PsychoSy]

Dynamite, lay 'em on me! :p :afro:

[vampireuk]

The B-52 which proudly proclaims to kill vietnamese people in the largest bombing campaign in the vietnam war....

[UDawg]

http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/bowlingforcolumbine/scenes/bank.htm

Still waiting for the rebuttle to the Heston speech.

[Ady]

I can't wait to see see Fahrenheit 9/11, it should be a very interesting movie. Who else is going to catch this one?

[PsychoSy]

I will ... if Bush will let us!! :p

*rimshot*

[netviper13]

I can't wait to see see Fahrenheit 9/11, it should be a very interesting movie. Who else is going to catch this one?

I'll definitely be there.

/me waves at the NSA agent watching him type :D