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Pandora's Box
05-22-04, 06:15 PM
well i just finished watching the nv40 launch demo and WOW! that things amazing!

i currently have an ati 9800 pro but i will be upgrading to geforce 6800ultra this summer! amazing simply amazing!


hats off to nvidia. :thumbsup:

PeterJensen
05-22-04, 06:22 PM
:rolleyes:

CaiNaM
05-22-04, 06:28 PM
me too.. i always make my decisions based on the unbiased manufactures hype. :rolleyes: the video set to "bring me to life" closed the deal for me! :D

NightFire
05-22-04, 06:45 PM
Hey guys! Lay off! He has his opinion, and, even if it is a bit silly to base your buying decision on videos *snicker*, I'm SURE he has a heck of a lot more reasons. I'm willing to bet that he had already read some reviews, and taken in as much info as possible.
If he did not, however:

You, sir, need to gather more information on what you want to buy. I got landed with a POS GeForce4 MX because I didn't know that they had no pixel shaders. Talk about lack of research. Ouch. Well anyway, you really need to check out more sources, and try to avoid all hype and make fair unbiased decisions. Bring peace to all mankind, show love and equality to all. Wage not war against anyone, for thine message is one of peace, not of violence.

Anyway...
Cheers.

Pandora's Box
05-22-04, 07:10 PM
read SOME reviews? LOL ive read almost every single one lol.

even though ati comes on top most of the time in framerates i believe it to be because nv40 is new architecture and drivers are not mature yet. plus ps 3.0 is irresistable.

RobHague
05-22-04, 07:31 PM
"i believe it to be because nv40 is new architecture and drivers are not mature yet"

*Cough* Dont hold you breath *Cough*, drivers can enhance performance but NVIDIA's past in that respect has been far from rosey.

"plus ps 3.0 is irresistable."

Irresistable? Don't you mean superfluous? ;)

PS 3.0 add's one new feature - Displacement Mapping. But a simular effect can be done with PS 2.0 - and other than that its marketing. Hold back that excitement and see what ATI have to offer before you make a choice, both brands are coming out with some amazing products, and just remember any card can run fancy demo's ;) i was like you at first and was impressed by the feature set, but i fell for that once before with a certain NVIDIA product boasting extensive 'programability' and features beyond the competition.

Pandora's Box
05-22-04, 07:37 PM
grrr. im about 10 seconds from pulling out a quarter and saying heads ati tails nvidia and flip it. knowing my luck it would land on the side lol.

SH64
05-22-04, 07:43 PM
Both NV & ATi are doing good this round (if we leave ATi's AF optimisations topic away) , and of course the NV40 rocks IMO!

RobHague
05-22-04, 07:46 PM
Well either isnt a BAD choice so a coin might be easyer. But id still wait and take a look at the ATI offerings again before making a final choice :)

*Edit*

ATi's AF optimisations are over-rated ;) the bottem line on that is that no matter if ATI lied, fibbed or called NVIDIA names the AF looks fine and there is no IQ difference. On the other hand NVIDIA are doing something funny with FarCry which has yet to come totally to light :kill:

Ruined
05-22-04, 08:03 PM
ATi's AF optimisations are over-rated ;) the bottem line on that is that no matter if ATI lied, fibbed or called NVIDIA names the AF looks fine and there is no IQ difference.

There is an IQ difference, but it is subtle and you probably wouldn't notice it in game.

PoorGuy
05-22-04, 08:08 PM
The NV40 is one of the greatest inventions of all time. Undoubtably surpassing all expectations and inspired awe in both performance and features. Hundreds and thousands of gamers will forever be changed by the way the NV40 optimizes their games. The NV40 firmly entrenches nVidia as the number one video card company in the world and truely marks nVidia as the worldwide leader in all video solutions.







Psst. Look at the title of the thread!

Clay
05-22-04, 08:22 PM
PS 3.0 add's one new feature - Displacement Mapping. But a simular effect can be done with PS 2.0 - and other than that its marketing.What about PS3.0 giving developers the ability for branching and looping? If you've ever programmed you'd know that those are enormous features for developers that PS2.0 does not have. Sure, you can get the same result with PS2.0 but it can take many more lines of code (i.e. more chance for errors/bugs) and it takes more time and resources.

wures7
05-22-04, 08:33 PM
When I had a Geforce 4 ti4600, my 3dmark01 score increased nearly 2,000 points going into the Detonator 40.xx drivers.

Rob_0126
05-22-04, 09:06 PM
blah blah, red apples and green apples. (mag)

Robert

WarheadMM
05-22-04, 09:13 PM
*Cough* Dont hold you breath *Cough*, drivers can enhance performance but NVIDIA's past in that respect has been far from rosey.



Irresistable? Don't you mean superfluous? ;)

PS 3.0 add's one new feature - Displacement Mapping. But a simular effect can be done with PS 2.0 - and other than that its marketing. Hold back that excitement and see what ATI have to offer before you make a choice, both brands are coming out with some amazing products, and just remember any card can run fancy demo's ;) i was like you at first and was impressed by the feature set, but i fell for that once before with a certain NVIDIA product boasting extensive 'programability' and features beyond the competition.
actually not true....there are some things in PS 3.0 that PS 2.0 cannot do....they cannot emulate nor do something similar...

pat777
05-22-04, 09:16 PM
Well either isnt a BAD choice so a coin might be easyer. But id still wait and take a look at the ATI offerings again before making a final choice :)

*Edit*

ATi's AF optimisations are over-rated ;) the bottem line on that is that no matter if ATI lied, fibbed or called NVIDIA names the AF looks fine and there is no IQ difference. On the other hand NVIDIA are doing something funny with FarCry which has yet to come totally to light :kill:
ATI is marketing too by downplaying SM 3.0. Indeed ATI AF optimizations are overrated. It's not hated enough. :)

EMunEeE
05-22-04, 09:24 PM
actually not true....there are some things in PS 3.0 that PS 2.0 cannot do....they cannot emulate nor do something similar...

Well not really. Last I heard, PS 3.0 effects are reproducible in PS 2.0, albeit in multiple passes. If I am not mistaken, it was said in an interview with an NVIDIA employee...if I find the link I will post it. I am not trying to down PS 3.0, however it is not as big as NVIDIA is making it out to be, also it is not as small as ATI is making it out to be.

EDIT: From NVNews frontpage

Neoseeker: In this next generation that NVIDIA will be the only company supporting PS3. One of the goals for common APIs like DX and OpenGL are to abstract hardware details from developers. Obviously there is a bit of a divergence in terms of hardware capability. With pressure to finish games relatively on time especially for smaller development houses, what is your view on support for architecture unique features like PS3 instead of just PS2 support? Are developers going to make the effort to support PS3 over PS2 as it will arguably limit their market.

David Kirk: Anything that can be programmed in PS 2.0 just runs in PS 3.0 with no changes. It just runs faster, and looks better. Anything that can be programmed in PS 3.0 can be converted into multipass versions for PS 2.0. It just runs more slowly and looks less good. Developers always support the high end and most advanced API and effects, because it's their marquee demo. They want their game to look as cool as possible. Dumbing down the shaders to run on PS 2.0 can be accomplished in the same way as lower end, older generation hardware has always been supported. The developers creates a simplified path for older hardware. Developers do that now, to support DX8 hardware, and this is even easier. The best analogy is back to when multitexture was introduced. You could make the same effects with more passes - it was just slower. It was also easy for developers to create both paths.

Neoseeker: How difficult is it to port PS2 shaders to PS3?

Dead easy. They just run, without modification :)


It'll look less good, but its not anything PS 2.0 cannot do.

OWA
05-22-04, 09:26 PM
Try here for a quick-look chart on SM 2.0 vs SM 3.0. Plus a summary on what it all means, etc.

http://www.penstarsys.com/previews/graphics/nvidia/gf6800/gf6800_5.htm

EMunEeE
05-22-04, 09:28 PM
Try here for a quick-look chart on SM 2.0 vs SM 3.0.

http://www.penstarsys.com/previews/graphics/nvidia/gf6800/gf6800_5.htm

Of course there are differences between SM 3.0 and SM 2.0, however I am just talking part of the SM aka PS 2.0 vs PS 3.0. :)

pat777
05-22-04, 09:31 PM
Well not really. Last I heard, PS 3.0 effects are reproducible in PS 2.0, albeit in multiple passes. If I am not mistaken, it was said in an interview with an NVIDIA employee...if I find the link I will post it. I am not trying to down PS 3.0, however it is not as big as NVIDIA is making it out to be, also it is not as small as ATI is making it out to be.

EDIT: From NVNews frontpage



It'll look less good, but its not anything PS 2.0 cannot do.
I think immensive branching and geometry instancing can save a lot of performance.

OWA
05-22-04, 09:33 PM
Of course there are differences between SM 3.0 and SM 2.0, however I am just talking part of the SM aka PS 2.0 vs PS 3.0. :)
Oh, sorry 'bout that.

EMunEeE
05-22-04, 09:34 PM
I think immensive branching and geometry instancing can save a lot of performance.

Yes, I read all about it and have seen many demos, which is a feature of VS 3.0 (not PS 3.0). I am especially interested in geometry instancing though.

5150 Joker
05-22-04, 09:38 PM
well i just finished watching the nv40 launch demo and WOW! that things amazing!

i currently have an ati 9800 pro but i will be upgrading to geforce 6800ultra this summer! amazing simply amazing!


hats off to nvidia. :thumbsup:


You might want to consider the 6800 GT. I think it's going to be the Ti4200 of this generation.

Jarred
05-22-04, 09:41 PM
What about PS3.0 giving developers the ability for branching and looping? If you've ever programmed you'd know that those are enormous features for developers that PS2.0 does not have. Sure, you can get the same result with PS2.0 but it can take many more lines of code (i.e. more chance for errors/bugs) and it takes more time and resources.

Indeed, there are some programmers at my work that are Die hard Ati fans, although they can't wait to work with ps3.0 because it's such a huge benifit to them.

Skynet
05-22-04, 09:59 PM
Indeed, there are some programmers at my work that are Die hard Ati fans, although they can't wait to work with ps3.0 because it's such a huge benifit to them.Not sure what you are saying. Is that like being a die hard Mercedes gear head but you can't wait to drive a Lexus SC?