Boo China!

[AshG]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/05/31/china.taiwan/index.html


And Boo Europe too if they drop the Tianamen embargo.

Taiwan wants to be free, let them be free. They're doing pretty darn well for themselves, and rule by a bunch of politburo power-driven crackheads will only drive the island into despair.

China promised Hongkong that they would still be able to practice democracy - look at the broken promises. Hongkongese are already upset that the Red Rule is choosing their leaders for them, having gone back on the promise of free elections.

An armed invasion of Taiwan is going to be an international mess. I think that's what China wants, sharply divided lines. And seeing as how they're one of the largest providers of cheap labor and cheap goods, that might not be good for the global economy if they go tariff and embargo happy. This could have especially large ramifications for the tech community...

Those Red Bastards need to leave Taiwan alone.

[Son Goku]

I can not say I'm too happy with this turn of events, not that China's interest in Tiawan is anything new. The Tiawanese might not receive the same treatment, but certain actions in Tibet also come to mind... If they want to be a seperate nation, I for one am not in support of using force to reintegrate Tiawan back into main land China.

[netviper13]

It'll be interesting to see how the US handles this one. We remained silent about the Chinese invasion and genocide in Tibet to save our trade relations, I hope that won't happen here.

[Darth Rancid]

Scare tactics... the Chineese leaders, although suprisingly immature, are not stupid enough to think they would get away with invading Taiwan, or bombarding it into submission...

They, (the Chineese leaders), do however need to grow up, and stop thinking about Taiwan all the time... and maybe even stop executing their own citizens for petty crimes...

Boo at the Chineese government!

(And we, Sweden, have no plans of selling them any high-tech military stuff)

[Rob_0126]

Nuke Um!!!! :rw:

j/k :lol:

China is a bully, because of their cheap labor; Ironically, this is wrong anyways.

hmph

[Son Goku]

According to the article, they also want to modernize their army. If other countries would be willing to give them what they want...

If they're serious though (and they've been on one of their kicks about Tiawan for a long time); how ready could we be, in that we're already committed in Iraq and elsewhere. If the Chinese were serious, they would probably on the one hand try to build their military, but on the other plan it when the US already has it's hands full elsewhere in the world...

If they have the slightest degree of seriousness, and aren't just calling Tiawan's bluff again to bully them into acceding to Chinese rule; based on the treatment the Tibetans have received, as well as Chinese citizens themselves, I don't give much hope for Tiawan receiving any kind of humane treatment through any of such an invasion. I also wonder about

Chinese leaders have taken note of the U.S. military strategy and performance in recent conflicts including Bosnia, Kosovo and Iraq, and have identified several points they may use to upgrade their own military doctrine.

The Pentagon experts believe China took note of low-tech strategies the enemy used against coalition forces in Kosovo that were able to stymie precision-strike systems, including camouflage, concealment, simple decoys, and frequent movement of forces.

Would China consider pre-emptive warfare, emulating the actions at Abu Graib, and what do they have in mind? I wouldn't put it past them, at least in desire tbh. Over there, government sponsored "disappearances" are no joke...

[ChAsM]

China is very powerful for two main reasons. I'd even venture to say much more powerful than the US.

1) Sheer numbers.
2) Sheer determination and loyalty.

If they want Taiwan, they'll get Taiwan. It's not right, but...

[DiscipleDOC]

China is very powerful for two main reasons. I'd even venture to say much more powerful than the US.

1) Sheer numbers.
2) Sheer determination and loyalty.

If they want Taiwan, they'll get Taiwan. It's not right, but...

I agree to a certain point.
1) China do have sheer numbers, but they are not nearly as advanced as our military is. If they were, they would take Taiwan without a second thought, but because they fear are military, they want to 'study' us before they try something like that.
2) The Germans were loyal. The Japanese military was loyal. The Russian military was determined. All lost one way or another.

[UDawg]

Can someone please answer this question?

Are the Chinese communists?

[ChAsM]

I agree to a certain point.
1) China do have sheer numbers, but they are not nearly as advanced as our military is. If they were, they would take Taiwan without a second thought, but because they fear are military, they want to 'study' us before they try something like that.
2) The Germans were loyal. The Japanese military was loyal. The Russian military was determined. All lost one way or another.

I'm referencing hand-to-hand combat, or even air and artillery capabilites. Nukes or Atom bombs are not an option. We barely beat Germany and Japan. Without the Atom bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, well, I think history might be different. Even if we could handle China, casualties would be TREMENDOUS. Don't get me wrong, we have an incredible military. The problem is diversity. We are of many cultures and races and for some idiotic asses that's a problem.

You see, we are not Americans. We are Spanish-Americans, African-Americans, Japenese-Americans, etc. I hate that!!!!! If you are an American citizen, you are American!!!! We should have one "main", required language - American. It's not truly English, because we have adapted "English". My father was born in Czechoslovakia (at the time it still was) and came to this country several years before WWII. He served in WWII as an AMERICAN. I was born an American, in America. While I might have a Czech heritage, I am American - period.

[EDWARD TIVRUSKY]

Can someone please answer this question?

Are the Chinese communists?
It's government most definitly is. And don't let the budda finger fool you! :)

[DiscipleDOC]

Can someone please answer this question?

Are the Chinese communists?

Yes they are.

ChAsM, Are air superiority is better than the Chinese. Our infantry is better. The only thing that China has over us IS the sheer numbers. Believe me, I studied this stuff when I was in the military.

[UDawg]

Ok so if they are communists then why do we listen to a thing they have to say? The word of a communist is not worth the air that passed over their vocal cords. Why is anyone surprised at this?

We cannot let Taiwan to fall to China at ANY cost.

[EDWARD TIVRUSKY]

Ok so if they are communists then why do we listen to a thing they have to say? The word of a communist is not worth the air that passed over their vocal cords. Why is anyone surprised at this?

We cannot let Taiwan to fall to China at ANY cost.
When money matters, people listen. And you don't blow off a billion people very easily. :angel2:

[UDawg]

When money matters, people listen. And you don't blow off a billion people very easily. :angel2:

I am confused by your post.

[bigC]

China is a growing market for western nations. they have an expanding middle class that is developing a huge appetite for western products. turning our backs on them will hurt the west economically and politically.

a war between China and Taiwan may also spark another Korean conflict, as the north ay grasp at the opportunity of a distracted world to re-unify the koreas.

[Son Goku]

It's government most definitly is. And don't let the budda finger fool you! :)

Actually, as I remember, the government in China had destroyed a number of Buddhist monestaries and artifacts... Again, back to the Tibetans...

Also, yes it's government is, but not every Chinese citizen is enchanted with their system of government there. The Tianamin Square massacre is one example of what happened when some of its citizens tried to rise up in revolt.

Nor would I (at least) recommend going in and bombing China or what not (not that you have suggested this). However, if they initiate action in Tiawan and do certain activity there to forceably subject them to their rule...

Also, I'm not sure, but Tiawan might yet have a role to play in the affairs over there, and I'm not talking militarily here. More a hunch on my part actually, perhaps time will tell...

The effect major coflict and major destruction in Tiawan could have on the global ecconomy is also there... When a major earthquake hit the reagon and caused certain damage at TSMC sometime back...the tech industry felt the effects beyond the local area. This is in addition to the possible loss of life that could result from certain intimidation that China seems to be suggesting they might do, once again.

[saturnotaku]

The effect major coflict and major destruction in Tiawan could have on the global ecconomy is also there... When a major earthquake hit the reagon and caused certain damage at TSMC sometime back...the tech industry felt the effects beyond the local area. This is in addition to the possible loss of life that could result from certain intimidation that China seems to be suggesting they might do, once again.

This is what worries me the most about the whole Taiwan situation. If the tech companies are hurting now, imagine what might happen if things come to blows. Might just have to make this Barton stretch its legs a little longer. :(

[ChAsM]

Yes they are.

ChAsM, Are air superiority is better than the Chinese. Our infantry is better. The only thing that China has over us IS the sheer numbers. Believe me, I studied this stuff when I was in the military.

I was in the military, too. It's not soley about air superiority, which ironically I was in the USAF. As history demonstrates, the Chinese are crafty and determined and just keep coming. Most Asian countries possess this loyalty and determination. In any case, how could we possibly account for all people in a country that is over four times our country's entire population??? I realize the Chinese Military is in technological obsolescence, but that doesn't weaken the threat of tremendous bloodshed if a war were to occur. If China had even a modestly suitable Air Force and Navy they would be nearly unstoppable.

[Sazar]

consider over time florida, texas and california become pre-dominantly hispanic... consider then the mind-set of americans if those states declared independence and thereby removed themselves from the nation as a whole and became a separate entity...

further consider the reaction of people in both entities were this to occur...

historically taiwan is part of china... undoubtedly they have a lot of autonomy and they are consider separately but no one dares say anything about an independent taiwan... one of the US stipulations wrt taiwan is that they do not declare independence...

the current issue arises from certain top officials in taiwan bandying around a lot of separatist talk... this is not popular in china especially when you consider other regions which may then think about breaking away...

think along the line of Macau, Hong Kong and Tibet as well...

when it comes down to it its a nationalistic pride thing... think of the word "patriotism" if you will...

chinese leaders are not all dumb and full of hot air... they actually do have a greivance here... were it not for the US and its support of Taiwan's current autonomous standing we would have a seriously big chunk of charred rock in the pacific...

[Rob_0126]

I was in the military, too. It's not soley about air superiority, which ironically I was in the USAF. As history demonstrates, the Chinese are crafty and determined and just keep coming. Most Asian countries possess this loyalty and determination. In any case, how could we possibly account for all people in a country that is over four times our country's entire population??? I realize the Chinese Military is in technological obsolescence, but that doesn't weaken the threat of tremendous bloodshed if a war were to occur. If China had even a modestly suitable Air Force and Navy they would be nearly unstoppable.

What makes me wonder about China is, why is their economy thriving?

All of the oil they need is the main reason OPEC is having a hard time keeping up.

Didn't they start on a space program?

Could China become a world superpower? Or will their communist rule fold onto itself?

Theirs a lot of what if's, but my concern right now, is that their high energy consumption will cause our oil prices to stay sky high, and criple our economy even more.

[vampireuk]

Didn't they start on a space program?

Could China become a world superpower? Or will their communist rule fold onto itself?



Tune in next week for our exciting conclusion!

[Son Goku]

consider over time florida, texas and california become pre-dominantly hispanic... consider then the mind-set of americans if those states declared independence and thereby removed themselves from the nation as a whole and became a separate entity...

further consider the reaction of people in both entities were this to occur...

historically taiwan is part of china...

Yes, Tiawan was historically a part of China, but think of the history surrounding the current Chinese government and it's installment and rise to power... Consider also that many in China (such as the Tianamin Square demonstrators) are not necessarily happy with their government, nor are they all less desirous for their own freedom.

Another analogy would be if a group of revolutionaries that wanted to install a (be it Communist, Facist, or other such dictatorship) were to topple the US government and install themselves.

Now the people in Hawaii (sp?) didn't want to be under the rule of this regime, and so chose independence... Meanwhile, there would be people in the United States who remember a time before the Communists, Facists (or whoever else) took over. And then certain nationalities in the US received that certain special treatment which the Tibetans did.

I might be mistaken here, but my understanding is that Tiawan's choice to break away, followed the actions of Mao and the revolution in 1954...

the current issue arises from certain top officials in taiwan bandying around a lot of separatist talk... this is not popular in china especially when you consider other regions which may then think about breaking away...

think along the line of Macau, Hong Kong and Tibet as well...

The question can also be how long will a people chose to be controlled through force. Though some dictatorships have remained in power, the Soviet Union is an example, where in the end many of the nations and people's who got absorbed into the Soviet empire, chose independence and to break away. Whether certain actions (mention that the Checkolsovokian revolution might have been in part staged), the ideas of Paristroika and Glasnost did have a certain popularity among the Soviet citizens. I don't think absorbed or conquered would be an unfair description with Tibet.

[Sazar]

What makes me wonder about China is, why is their economy thriving?

All of the oil they need is the main reason OPEC is having a hard time keeping up.

Didn't they start on a space program?

Could China become a world superpower? Or will their communist rule fold onto itself?

Theirs a lot of what if's, but my concern right now, is that their high energy consumption will cause our oil prices to stay sky high, and criple our economy even more.

china's economy is not as dependent on external influences as many western economies... same with india... there will be large fluctuations but you are not going to see a massive economic collapse like russia's or what happens during major western recessions...

china is just one of the reasons for the oil price situation... gouging/profiteering... conflict in the middle east and US consumption are a few others...

china has a fledgling space program on-going... they have a decent satellite system in place and have decent tech in place as well as the man-power to achieve most goals they set for themselves... consider their military tech for example...

china is a de-facto economic super-power in the making virtue of the sheer size of its economy and the booming middle-class... militarily it is powerful enough to cause other countries to think twice before attacking and it does possess those all important nuclear weapons... couple that with a massive ground force and you have a decent power... not quite a full-fledged super-power but in today's day and age they are likely 2nd only to the US armed forces...

the high prices we have are partly our fault... the US has done jack/all to reduce its consumption and invest in alternatives... who needs SUV's? and yet we have dozens @ every street corner... think about the number of chinese civilians who peddle on bicycles to work everyday when saying they are a cause of the high prices in america...

also our prices are due to advantageous trade agreements... compare the prices per liter we pay to that of other nations and you will see how favorable a deal we get... big business in the end wins out and currently it is more profitable for them to push for gas-guzzling vehicles and the like on the market than to invest in products such as the Prius and the Insight...

instead of blaming others america has to take responsibilty and act now (well I rather we had acted @ the time of the last gulf war) to reign in fuel-related cost over-runs..

[2fast4u]

Can someone please answer this question?

Are the Chinese communists?

no.

china de facto operates a capitalistic economy