Help me decide between 9700Pro and Ti4600

[Corona999]

Hey all. I really need help weighing my options here. I'm looking to purchase a system within the next 2 weeks and I'm deciding between the ATI 9700 Pro and the Nvidia GF4 Ti4600. Here are some of the advantages and disadvantages I've come up with so far. Feel free to add or comment on them.

ATI 9700 Pro:
Advantages:
- Awesome performance (Outperforms Geforce 4 Ti4600 in almost everything)
- DirectX 9 Support
- Max settings for games are playable (FSAA...etc)
- Industry-leading graphics quality
- Next Gen DX9 games will be supported on this card

Disadvantages:
- High Cost ($50 to $100 more CDN)
- Functionality dependant on BIOS revision (1.01 vs 1.03)
- ATI Catalyst drivers still perceived to be unstable
- May require purchase of another power supply
- May need to make several BIOS and software tweaks & updates to play games/increase stability
- R300 chip is still very new and bugs are still being worked out

Nvidia Geforce Ti4600
Advantages:
- Detonator drivers are usually very good and stable
- Much faster than my current card (AIW Radeon 32mb)
- Reputation and quality of Nvidia's products
- Able to run all of today's games with little chance of instability
- No need for extra power
- Slightly cheaper than 9700Pro
- Has been out longer than 9700Pro and so most bugs have been worked out

Disadvantages:
- Doesn't perform as well as 9700Pro
- Image quality is believed to be not as good as ATI's products
- No DirectX 9 support (May have to purchase a new card within a year to play DX9 games)

The system I'm looking to purchase is the following:
Intel P4 2.53Ghz
Asus P4PE i845PE
Kingston 512Mb PC2700 DDR Ram
Enermax 450 Watt Power Supply
(With little to no overclocking being done)

I've been surfing forums and I've been seeing a lot of issues with 9700Pro's stability. With the GF4 I haven't seen quite as much though. Most issues with GF4 that I've seen only deal with decreased performance between driver updates. Right now I think I'm leaning more towards the GF4 because at the moment, I'm more concerned with stability than performance. What good is a powerful video card if it crashes lots or needs to have its BIOS tweaked somehow? But I'm really considering the 9700Pro... I guess that's why I'm posting here, I really just need some convincing from you guys. Any thoughts???? Maybe you can share some of your experiences with either card??

[Bigus Dickus]

A comment or two on the 9700:

You're building a completely new system? In that case, making sure you have a PSU up to the task of running a 9700 would be fairly straightforward. Also, if building a new system, you can ensure that the particular mobo you choose has been reported to be stable and work well with the 9700.

Those two together should remove practically all stability concerns. There may be a few graphical glitches in games that will have to be addressed by new driver releases, but stability shouldn't be an issue.

Also, the 9700 non-pro should be announced tomorrow, and will likely be here in just a couple of weeks. MSRP is reported to be $100 USD less than the 9700 pro, and is functionally identical to the pro version but with slightly lower clock speeds (think GF4 Ti4400 relative to the Ti4600).

So, no matter which you decide to go with, prices are likely to be significantly cheaper in two or three weeks (on ATi's front because of the 9700 with 75% of the price for 95% of the performance, and on NV's front as a reactionary measure to the release of the 9500 and 9700 non-pro cards).

[ragejg]

DX9 games will likely require a FAST dx9 card, affixed to a non-agp-high-bandwidth slot (PCI-Express or the like), at least DDR II memory, and a 2.6-3.0 ghz CPU. I believe that all gamer systems built properly NOW are and should be optimized for DX8.

So...

Yes, the 9700 delivers better scores in DX8 w/AA & AF, but you pay the premium not for that, but for the DX9 support.

When DX9 games come out, the 9700 card will be like the Xabre is right now with DX8.

ti4600 really seems like a better deal to me, but if you wanna pay a little extra, I suppose a 9700 would be nice.

@4600 speeds, I don't mind Quinxunx AA and 2xAF @ 1280x1024...

[StealthHawk]

if you want to leave on 16x AF and 4/6x FSAA all the time and never have to worry about the settings, then get the R9700/P. if you don't really care about AF/FSAA then get the GF4.

either way i would probably wait until after the R9700 is launched

[saturnotaku]

Originally posted by StealthHawk
either way i would probably wait until after the R9700 is launched

NV30 you mean? The 9700's been out a while now. :p

[Bigus Dickus]

I think he specifically meant 9700 (non-pro), as opposed to the 9700 Pro that has been out for a while.

As for why to wait for this product, read my post above. ;)

[ATI LoVeR 9700]

Go for the Radeon 9700 Pro. The stabilty issues are worth it if your building such a fast PC, you don't want a second rate video card in there.

I heard that it works fine with the Asus P4PE. Once you get it working, games aren't crashing, and the stability is fine. It's the getting to go part that's a little tough, but I haven't heard any problems about the Radeon 9700 Pro and The Asus P4PE.

The 9700 is worth it, it's super fast and makes the Geforce4 look like a TNT2. It is REALLY future proof too.

Most issues with Intel 845 chipsets are resolved. And I haven't heard about ANYTHING with an 845PE issue.

Your powe supply is fine for the Radeon 9700 Pro too.

Go for the 9700.

Note: This is a nVidia biased board, ask the same question at Rage3d.com (http://www.Rage3D.com).

[Chalnoth]

What, and rage3d.com isn't an ATI-biased board?

[ATI LoVeR 9700]

Originally posted by Chalnoth
What, and rage3d.com isn't an ATI-biased board?

Yes it is, that's why he needs to ask at both boards, to compare and contrast.

[Bigus Dickus]

Shouldn't that have been fairly obvious Chalnoth?

[Corona999]

Yup, I've posted in the Rage3d boards too, as well as Tomshardware and Anandtech. Many are suggesting the 9700 Pro. I'm more worried about having to tweak and RMA to get stability with my system. To me, having to do that just isn't worth the money. But I like the idea of having superior image quality. It seems that almost everyone who's had the 9700 Pro has had an issue with it.

[pelly]

If you can wait...do yourself a favor and see what NV30 has to offer...

In the end, you might still prefer the 9700...though you'll know for certain that you ended up with the best card for you if you wait and see everything...

:D

[Megatron]

If youre definitely building something in the next couple weeks, then unfortunately the Nv30 wont be ready to check out.

If the extra money is a concern, then definitely go with a Ti4600. Its still a hell of a good fast card.
If the extra 75-100 bucks doesnt matter to you then go for the Radeon9700 and get the fastest card available.

I also feel compelled to say that alot of the issues with 9700 are overstated. Many many reviews have been done on the card, and they love it.
Heres a good snip from the beyond 3d Review of Hercules`9700 board:

"So would I recommend this card? Well, yes. If you can afford the price, I can't see why you should not buy the product. I have not only done benchmarks but I also played games and demos with the card. Where I have seen people listing all kinds of problems with this card in various forums. I think most of these problems are related to cleaning your system. I have played NOLF2 (demo) and 1 (full version), Medal of Honor, Unreal Tournament (retail version), battlefield 1942 demo and some others. I did not find a single issue.


Dont stay away from something because someone else may have reported a problem with their system, its always best to try it in your system. if you have issues, send it back to the store and get something else.

Good luck on whatever card you get.
:)

[Nv40]

i noticed your post at rage3d forums ,so its wise to first ask
before upgrading ..

theres is some questions you need to ask first
before upgrading ..

1)What games are you going to play ?
2)did u upgrade frequently your video card every 6 months ?
or every 12-18 months ?
3)are you going to use your new video card just for gaming


unless you get a Radeon9700pro from an earlier beta version
than v1.3 ,then you should not have any stability issues in your machine .my friend got a Radeon9700pro made by ATi ,a couple
of weeks ago ,and he returned it the same day ,he tested
3dmark2001 and saw graphics errors with ATI 7.77 drivers ,
and noticed it was an earlier beta board v1.1 (i think).
the next card he got the next week ,worked flawlessly
in 3dmark and all games he tested ... its very interesting
to know that he NEver Formated his PC or reinstalled windows,or tweaked the Bios or anything ! he just unistalled his latest nvidia drivers at tested the radeon9700pro in his machine..
the only one that worked without stabilty or graphical glitches
was the the revision v1.3 ,and he has a cheap 300watts powersupply .

however it is good to know the drivers still have some issues ,with games ..........
MAFIA,DUngeonsiege,Warcraft3,GTA3,Morrowind,MEdiev al TOtal war ,and some users in rage3d have reported radeon9700pro random Locks in UnrealT2003 ..

So i think if you cant wait a little more ,then the RAdeon9700pro
should be fine and fast for all your gaming needs .
if you can wait a litle more by the end of next month
(thanksgiving) you will be able to see benchamrks
of the Nv30 and choose a card that will last you a little more
for $400 . :)

For 3daplications ,i really believe Nvidia is the way to go .
i have some experience with Nvidia cards since Tnt2
in profesional 3d aplications and have been never dissapointed . :)

you can do anything of this..
1)Buy the radeon9700pro now ,it should work fine
if you have the latest version ,and drivers will be better in the future.
2)the smart choice ->Wait 1-2 months for Nv30/R9700pro benchmarks ,and buy the best one.
3) and finally ,if you have the enough money an need a fast video card now! ,but still you will like to have the best card for Doom3 ,buy a Geforce4 ti200 now! for $160 and wait later for the best Nv30 or Nv35 card . usually the company GAINWARD build the best quality and overclockeables Nvidia cards .
THe Nv35 should be available by summer 2003 ,and probably the time of release of Doom3 .
you still have the option to sell the Geforce4 to a friend or better
build a cheap second machine with this card .

[Chalnoth]

Originally posted by Bigus Dickus
Shouldn't that have been fairly obvious Chalnoth?

That was the point.

[Corona999]

Nv40, I'd love to wait for the NV30 but I kinda need the computer now because I need it for my studies at university. I suppose I should settle for the cheaper solution (Geforce4) since I'm a student, but I figure if I'm spending the money, I might as well get the top of the line model (Radeon9700Pro). From reading the forums I just think there are still too many problems with the ATI solution. It doesn't help that my current system is using an ATI card and is unstable in games.

[Chalnoth]

Personally, I wouldn't even go for a Ti 4600. Just get a Ti 4200 so you don't feel guilty about upgrading sooner...it will offer most of the performance of the Ti 4600 anyway.

[LORD-eX-Bu]

If the Ti 4600 costs more than $160-$170 then it is not worth it, get the damn 9700 Pro now!:D I know I will.;)

[StealthHawk]

Originally posted by Bigus Dickus
I think he specifically meant 9700 (non-pro), as opposed to the 9700 Pro that has been out for a while.

As for why to wait for this product, read my post above. ;)

yes, i was talking about the 9700 vanilla and NOT the 9700Pro. probably around 90% of the performance at 75% of the price, can't go wrong with that ;)

[Bigus Dickus]

Originally posted by Chalnoth
That was the point.

No, I meant: shouldn't it have been obvious why he should ask the question at different biased forum?

Whether nvnews and rage3d are biased wasn't in question, but your first question seemed more like a way of saying "I don't know why you would want to ask the question there..."

And the answer is what was obvious.

[Chalnoth]

My original response was in reference to what I perceived as a tone that was along the lines that Rage3D wasn't a biased board.

[SurfMonkey]

How about getting a cheap gfx card for now, save some more money and wait for the NV30. I had four machines running R9700s at work. Three cards were busted and had to go back. Not what I'd call confidence inspiring. Next monday all four cards are going back and we are switching back to Ti4600s, this time we'll wait for the NV30 before we upgrade. And prod ATi materials with a long stick prior to use.

[Fotis]

Get a gf2 mx for almost 0$ and wait for nv30!!!!:D :D

[Nv40]

Originally posted by Corona999
Nv40, I'd love to wait for the NV30 but I kinda need the computer now because I need it for my studies at university. I suppose I should settle for the cheaper solution (Geforce4) since I'm a student, but I figure if I'm spending the money, I might as well get the top of the line model (Radeon9700Pro). From reading the forums I just think there are still too many problems with the ATI solution. It doesn't help that my current system is using an ATI card and is unstable in games.

the Geforce4ti200 is a fast card ,as fast as the Geforce4ti 4600
when you overclock the video card .. and they are are cheapier than i thought ,as saw in www.pricewatch.com a Geforce4ti 4200 for just $135 . :)

the Nv30 probably will be the fastest card in 2003 .
so another thing you can do is buy a very cheap card now ,
for gaming something like a radeon9000 or Geforce4 mx440-8x
both cards cost are near $80 !!!! and will play most today games
at decent details in medium resolutions.
or get the Geforce2mx for the ridiculous price of $40.
for you college cheap card will be fine .

and later in the year buy the cheapiest version of the Nv30 something like a Nv30 ti200 $300-$350 .. hehe

but be aware that the top of the line Nv30 should cost something up to $500!!!! :( , so at the end the answer to your question
is about .. how much money did you have ?

[Bigus Dickus]

Originally posted by Chalnoth
My original response was in reference to what I perceived as a tone that was along the lines that Rage3D wasn't a biased board.

Hmm... oh well. I didn't perceive that tone at all, but different people see the same thing different ways I guess. Wouldn't be the first time. ;)