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ATi
06-13-04, 01:28 AM
Should i get a x800xtpe or a bfg 6800 ultra but im going to get a PCI-E MoBo like in 12 weeks.
Can the bfg 6800 ultra be a apgx8 and a pci-e Card but how?and is this the bfg 6800 ultra OC?And Are the extreme EDs coming out?

http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=M&Product_Code=190436&Category_Code=VC-NV
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silversurfer reviews (http://vaporizers.net/silver-surfer-vaporizer)

GlowStick
06-13-04, 01:32 AM
If you are buying a PCI-Express motherboard you should buy neighter.

Wait for PCI-Express cards to hit the market first.

ATi
06-13-04, 01:35 AM
If you are buying a PCI-Express motherboard you should buy neighter.

Wait for PCI-Express cards to hit the market first.

My old graphics card died and i need a new graphics card and it say's it's apg and pci-E
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VTX1300S (http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Honda_VTX1300S)

GlowStick
06-13-04, 01:40 AM
If you commit your self to buying a a AGP card now, id update your plans and buy a new platform that is AGP.

aaahhh52
06-13-04, 01:52 AM
no it can not be agp and pci-E, but what exactly is the difference between a normal pci slot and a pci-e slot?

aaahhh52
06-13-04, 02:42 AM
or i could be wrong, i dunno dont ask me, its like 3 in the morning

GlowStick
06-13-04, 02:51 AM
No your right, you cant have a card that will fit into both slots.

The best way to think about PCI Express it it allows for future expantion, just like PCI did.

So it dose the same job, just better.

MUYA
06-13-04, 02:53 AM
PCI is old tech. and PCI Express (3GIO) is new tech...the PCI Express and old PCI slots aren't the same.

Currently there is no nv4X pci express GPU Card available or introduced.

A Pci express nv4X was shown at Computex, the NV45 and those won't be available in retail for yonks maybe,

MUYA
06-13-04, 02:54 AM
Also u can have pci express 16X slot and an agp slot on the same mobo. IIRC ECS are coming out with one.

GlowStick
06-13-04, 03:00 AM
Also u can have pci express 16X slot and an agp slot on the same mobo. IIRC ECS are coming out with one.
Yeah but the agp port runs off the pci bus. And the 'big' diffrence' agp was it had its own faster bus.

MUYA
06-13-04, 03:11 AM
I haven't said that AGP wasn't a superset of PCI ;) or subset which ever u look at it. Anyways, all i said was ECS are coming out with a mobo that will have AGP and PCI and PCI EXpress 16X slots. ;) Grantsdale chipset I belive...

Sgt_Pitt
06-13-04, 03:28 AM
Well my MSI 6800u agp card's box states and i quote

* Designed for PCi express X 16
* Supports PCI express highspeed interconnect (HSI) technology for bidirectional interconnect protocol conversion


so i guess there will be an adaptor for pci express m/b's

MUYA
06-13-04, 04:01 AM
Thats the marketing speak. When they designed the NV40. It was designed for AGP first.

Of course it's now designed for PCI Express x16 - with the help of a HSI bridge chip ;) That way u can slap a agp part with a HSI bridge chip and have PCI eXpress compatibilty. Which I am hearing performs very well. :angel:

I never said you could not get a part which was intended for agp originally to be tranformed to a PCI Express card. Thats what NV's HSI is for.

Grantsdale supports PCI , PCI Express and AGP, it's just Intel wants to get rid of AGP and PCI. But they can't all at once, so they are trying to get rid of AGP first the graphics slot/ I/O and then PCI.

Ruined
06-13-04, 07:51 AM
Why don't you get the 6800NU, its $299, 12x1, and is in the same range as the X800PRO in 3dmark scores:
http://www.evga.com/products/moreinfo.asp?Part_Number=128-A8-N343-AX

Good holdover card until NV45/pcix.

Lezmaka
06-13-04, 08:27 AM
Yeah but the agp port runs off the pci bus. And the 'big' diffrence' agp was it had its own faster bus.

Via's chipset will have a chipset that allows PCIE and AGP, without having to run the AGP slot over the PCI bus.

Snooka
06-13-04, 08:47 AM
Alright, guys... Sheesh, I notice threads get raped here all the time.

Anyway, I agree with Ruined. :thumbsup:

{Sniping}Waste
06-13-04, 06:58 PM
Why don't you get the 6800NU, its $299, 12x1, and is in the same range as the X800PRO in 3dmark scores:
http://www.evga.com/products/moreinfo.asp?Part_Number=128-A8-N343-AX

Good holdover card until NV45/pcix.
Found some shiping info on the EVGA 6800NU. It wont be shipped til july 1st.
Its realy a preorder.

As for the MOBO, some have agp and PCI-E 16X both.
Both cards, X800 XT PE and the 6800U will do what you want. The X800 will produce less heat and need less power.
The 6800U will be stronger in OpenGL app's.

I need to know what app's you run to give you a good answer and the case size and PSU to give you a answer.

Helanic Frost
06-13-04, 09:37 PM
First off, been a reader of nvnews for a long time and i'm more of a lurker than a forum poster. That said here's my opinion on what card to buy.

First thing you should consider is driver compatibility, company history regarding it, and things like warranty and support from the manufacturer.

BFG has the best warranty and tech support in the business, bar none. They produce NVIDIA powered video cards exclusively. With ATI powered cards you can expect a 1-3 year or limited lifetime warranty( meaning only as long as the card is still being manufactured IE 1-2 years max. Something to seriously consider depending on how long you normally keep a card. I tend to only upgrade every 2 years and pass down my old tech to my kids. That BFG warranty means alot to me.

Support of upcoming technology is another area that means ALOT to me. NVIDIA is doing this with shader 3.0. ATI isn't. When i am done with my card i want my kids to enjoy things like that, something they wouldn't get with ATI.

Being a father i like things to be as hassle free for my kids as possible, nvidia has industry best driver support, i'm sorry here and i know ATI has gotten better but they still don't hold a candle to NVIDIA here.

So with all that said i then consider performance. Nvidia in my opinion is always close to ATI here. Both companies produce great cards with one or the other winning in certain applications, never seen a clear winner as nvidia does better with opengl always and has shown itself competitive in direct x. So with nvidia i may lose in max fps penus measuring contests sometimes but i know any game i buy will work, it's not a roll of the dice for me as it was in the past for me with ATI purchases. So NVIDIA less compatibility issues with it's driver's in new games and has great performance and the best warranty(BFG) in the industry.

I choose NVIDIA for all of these reasons. I always recommend NVIDIA for all of these reasons too.

Let the penus envy guys argue over who got 140 fps vs 138 fps in the benchmarks but buy a card that offers you more overall value and this NVIDIA gives hands down.

Pandora's Box
06-13-04, 10:15 PM
First off, been a reader of nvnews for a long time and i'm more of a lurker than a forum poster. That said here's my opinion on what card to buy.

First thing you should consider is driver compatibility, company history regarding it, and things like warranty and support from the manufacturer.

BFG has the best warranty and tech support in the business, bar none. They produce NVIDIA powered video cards exclusively. With ATI powered cards you can expect a 1-3 year or limited lifetime warranty( meaning only as long as the card is still being manufactured IE 1-2 years max. Something to seriously consider depending on how long you normally keep a card. I tend to only upgrade every 2 years and pass down my old tech to my kids. That BFG warranty means alot to me.

Support of upcoming technology is another area that means ALOT to me. NVIDIA is doing this with shader 3.0. ATI isn't. When i am done with my card i want my kids to enjoy things like that, something they wouldn't get with ATI.

Being a father i like things to be as hassle free for my kids as possible, nvidia has industry best driver support, i'm sorry here and i know ATI has gotten better but they still don't hold a candle to NVIDIA here.

So with all that said i then consider performance. Nvidia in my opinion is always close to ATI here. Both companies produce great cards with one or the other winning in certain applications, never seen a clear winner as nvidia does better with opengl always and has shown itself competitive in direct x. So with nvidia i may lose in max fps penus measuring contests sometimes but i know any game i buy will work, it's not a roll of the dice for me as it was in the past for me with ATI purchases. So NVIDIA less compatibility issues with it's driver's in new games and has great performance and the best warranty(BFG) in the industry.

I choose NVIDIA for all of these reasons. I always recommend NVIDIA for all of these reasons too.

Let the penus envy guys argue over who got 140 fps vs 138 fps in the benchmarks but buy a card that offers you more overall value and this NVIDIA gives hands down.


:super:

*stands up and claps* great reply dude. exactly the same reasons im buying a bfg 6800 ultra.

Helanic Frost
06-13-04, 10:51 PM
I just wish i saw more reviews that compared overall value of the cards like this. Driver compatibility is a very important aspect, ATI has more issues overall than NVIDIA bar none, every video card forum and tech support forum for actual individual games shows this. When SWG launched last year the sheer number of ATI owners who were having problems were at least triple to that of the NVIDIA owners.

Warranty scores major points with me when deciding to purchase a video card. Tech support comes right in there as well especially when it's a brand new architecture. I can't count the number of posts i've seen in game tech support forums that the problem wasn't really in the system they were using but more PEBKAC( problem exists between keyboard and chair). I've been guilty of that myself on occasion so that 24/7 tech support is invaluable to me. I simply cannot find a package like that for an ATI based product, neither ATI nor it's partners offer this. Not to say all NVIDIA partners do but i can get this with BFG and that along with unparralleled driver quality seals the deal for me.

Let ATI have that extra 5-10 fps for that odd game here and there, you'll find as many games where nvidia wins. Sure i might change my mind on that if ATI were truly hammering NVIDIA and showed them to be stale and not moving forward but that simply hasn't been the case. FX cards were competitive and so will the new Geforce 6 series. It's the extras that get my dollar and that is where ATI falls short.

Helanic Frost
06-13-04, 10:56 PM
Oh and btw who gives a flip what the max fps is for a game? I'd rather know the min fps and if i were a reviewer that would be how i evaluated a card, that's where a video card shows it's true strength is the min fps it can crank out and what shows real performance and what is really a playable setting for a game.

DivotMaker
06-13-04, 11:02 PM
Why don't you get the 6800NU, its $299, 12x1, and is in the same range as the X800PRO in 3dmark scores:


Nope, not according to this user...

6800 GT (http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13224)

OWA
06-13-04, 11:06 PM
Oh yeah, the same guy that was bragging in other threads about trashing the 6800GT before he even got it (b/c he got upset at some stuff said about ATI). Seems like a great source of info to me. :rolleyes:

DivotMaker
06-13-04, 11:22 PM
Oh yeah, the same guy that was bragging in other threads about trashing the 6800GT before he even got it (b/c he got upset at some stuff said about ATI). Seems like a great source of info to me. :rolleyes:

Was not aware of that....guess we really need to see some final board REVIEWS to be certain...

Anyone find it odd that users can buy boards that have NOT had actual retail board reviews yet?

OWA
06-13-04, 11:31 PM
Don't worry guys . I ordered a 6800gt . If it ever actually ships i will be throw up videos and pictures showing how horrible the quality actually is. All i need is a few seconds in the registry to tweak things and i can make anything look ugly .

He definitely seems like an HB type from what I've read but his comment above wasn't as bad as what I initially thought. I think he was just being sarcastic b/c he was frustrated with the ATI optimizations (shimmering and filtering) issues being discussed.

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13037&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20&sid=d47a1e4ed8eac10ff67ef65aaf1d6e97