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UDawg
06-14-04, 01:47 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/14/opinion/14SAFI.html

OP-ED COLUMNIST
Tear Down This U.N. Stonewall
By WILLIAM SAFIRE

Published: June 14, 2004

E-mail: safire@nytimes.com

he secretary general of the U.N. tapped me on the shoulder at a recent luncheon and said, "May I have a word with you?"

Because several columns of mine zapped the U.N. for its cover-up of the costliest financial rip-off in history — even calling it "Kofigate" — I braced myself for an icy rebuke. But Kofi Annan assured me, in his courteous way, that the committee he had appointed to look into the oil-for-food scandal, headed by former Fed chairman Paul Volcker, would do a thorough job.

I respectfully asked if this included an inquiry into his own potential conflict of interest: when Annan's son was a consultant to Cotecna Inspections, that Swiss company won the lucrative U.N. contract to monitor the shipments of food and medicine to Saddam's sanctioned regime. Annan revealed that a competitor had protested undue influence in that contract award, and that an internal U.N. report would be delivered to the Volcker committee.

But that was further evidence of corruption containment. When the International Relations Committee of the U.S. House of Representatives on May 20 requested 55 internal U.N. audit reports on oil-for-food, Annan wrote Chairman Henry Hyde on June 2 that Volcker "believes the policy of the Organization not to release non-public documents is entirely appropriate."

I suggested that the U.N. was using Volcker, a man of spotless reputation, to control all information about the scandal. The secretary general said "I will look into this further and ask Mr. Volcker to call you."

Annan was true to his word. In came a call two days later from a very tall former central banker who prefers that his name not be used. "I thought I had a large staff together weeks ago, but they backed out on me. Now we have some top-flight investigators coming on and we'll announce them soon. The budget crunch hasn't come yet, but the U.N. will have to come though with the amounts we need."

A U.N. official tells me the Volcker committee's first choices were turned off not just by lack of subpoena or oath-requiring powers — which Volcker considers "not fatal" — but by an inadequate budget to dig into the largest financial rip-off in history. As a result, after nearly three months, a foot-dragging bureaucracy has successfully frustrated the independent committee dependent on it. "Some people have indicated eagerness to show us what they have, but we haven't had the staff, the office space, the administrative structure. I haven't even had a press person."

My Nixon-era colleague was a tad testy about any imputation to the secretary general that his retention was being used to block outside inquiries backed by the force of law. "I don't think it's a great idea to have parallel investigations of U.N. contracts." Not even by the House of Representatives? "Henry Hyde wants to be supportive; whether his staff agrees with him is another matter."

This well-meaning financial wizard is determined to resist all investigative competition. "Take BNP Paribas," he says of the French-owned bank central to the financing of the U.N.'s oil-for-food debacle. "Government authorities can get their stuff, but to the extent that they're contractors of the U.N., no bank can give that up without due judicial procedure. That would violate banking law."

Let's advance this story. Two BNP Paribas sources tell me this: in a storage facility in Lower Manhattan, the bank had a large room containing some 5,000 oil-for-food file folders.

Each folder contained a copy of the bank's letter of credit authorized by a U.N. official to pay a contractor for its shipment; a Notice of Arrival monitored by Cotecna at the Iraqi port of Umm Qasr if by ship, or the Jordanian border crossing of Trebil if by truck; and a description of the contract. The original paperwork went to the Rafidain bank in Amman, Jordan; copies of the damning documents are stored by BNP Paribas in New Jersey.

Though the U.N. purchases were supposedly to supply desperate Iraqis with food or medicine, most of this evidence deals with items like construction equipment from Russia, hundreds of Mercedes-Benz limousines from Germany and thousands of bottles of perfume from France.

The money trail grows cold; won't some lawful authority (Hyde? Snow? Spitzer?) issue a subpoena that would start "due judicial procedure"?

Well it looks as if the UN will get away with their corruption. This is also the reason why we who supported the war did not care if the UN, France, Germany and Russia were involved. They were the source of the corruption with Iraq.

Before the war started I and others here talked about this food-for-oil scandel and the reasons why the fore mentioned parties were not backing this war. The truth here is that it was those parties that wer in Iraq for oil yet Bush get this accusation thrown on him. Mean while the UN skates free from any queer pondering by the anti-Bush crowd.

This whole convoluted argument that Bush was in this for oil, the WMDs were never there and the UN in spectors where doing ther job is partialy true. I will shock you by admitting that the UN inspectors WERE doing their job and doing it well. They were not supposed to find WMDs. They were there to cover the biggest scandel in the history of the UN.

If WMDs were found by the inspectors then the whole deal was off, the US would have a justified reason to invade and the UN and its kabal would lose their contracts under the oil-for-food program. The mere fact that the UN is stonewalling with out any legal reasoning is just more damning evidence that this internatinal body needs a over haul. The level of corruption with third world dicators and the complicant eye turning of the US has got to stop. Either we pull out of the UN or we RE-SHAPE it into a true world community body.

As it stands right now the UN boils down to common thievery and bribes. The only difference between the UN and the Gambino crime family is the Gambinos wear nice suits and the UN wears blue helmets.

:lame:

retsam
06-14-04, 02:11 AM
Tear Down This U.N. Stonewall how about lets just tear down that building and let donald trump put up some nice condos

UDawg
06-15-04, 12:33 AM
another BUMP

This is a big story here. This completely sheds light as to why the UN had problems with us going into Iraq but ulitmately keep quiet. It also tells us where Russia, German and France were coming from. I still can't get over the fact that many people in this very forum and of course all across the left keep saying this whole war is about oil. Yes it is about oil OIL FOR FOOD CONTRACTS FOR RUSSIA GERMANY FRANCE AND THE UN.

I got in to a civil discussion with one of the many Democrats at my work today. We were talking about the war (I did not start this topic BTW he started it) and he was throwing it in my face about how it was all for war. I pulled out this article and the other articles on WMD revelations as of late and he was suddenly quiet.

I asked him if he wanted to change the subject now would be a good time because I got more to put in her but I really am not interested in discussing this. He smiled and we had chocolate cake the corporate president's assistant made for us. MMMMM chocolate cake with chocolate frosting and raspberry filling. I said to him "isn't this better than arguing about the president?" He just laughed. I then told him I don't accept checks, only cash. We have a $20 bet on the election. He took kerry and gave me 8 points. What a goofball.

EDWARD TIVRUSKY
06-15-04, 12:54 PM
Looks like PsychoSy won't touch this one. :tongue2: :angel2:

PsychoSy
06-15-04, 04:43 PM
Of course not -- it's SAFIRE!

Couldn't trust him to sit the right way on a camode!

UDawg
06-15-04, 05:27 PM
Then back it up you punk! I want a full detailed report on how Bill sits on the camode. :D

Seriously, you can't touch it. This is know by many many people in the media of the scandel with the UN. There is nothing that can be said or spun away from this. It just sheads too much light on why certain parties did not back the war in Iraq.

DiscipleDOC
06-16-04, 02:22 PM
Why is there no debate on this? Many liberals say the reason why we should not go to war, is because there is no UN backing--and now that we see why there's no backing...that excuse goes up in smoke.

Sazar
06-16-04, 02:55 PM
probably coz it, like many other op-ed's, is just that?

the UN is the sum of its parts... keep in mind halliburton negotiated and executed multi-million dollar contracts with iraq as well post gulf-war 1 too...

the question I would ask is was there a reason to go to war that the other members of the UN pointed to and said "yes... we should not stand back... we should attack iraq"

the majority of the worlds nations and the majority of the members of the permanent and the voted members of the security council would not have authorised the use of force since it was deemed un-necessary... thats what they claimed and as far as we have seen it would appear to hold true...

the iraq oil-for-food corruption deals are another matter which need to be thoroughly investigated... undoubtedly but again a lot of the information that was put forth was channelled through ahmed chalabi... motives may well be clear here wrt relevance of WHY he was releasing the information he did and when he did it...

UDawg
06-16-04, 03:02 PM
Halliburton has nothing to do with this. ;)

the UN is the sum of its parts

Yes and the biggest part was involved.

You cannot just dismiss this as a op-ed. This information goes far beyond someone's opinion.

a lot of the information that was put forth was channelled through ahmed chalabi

Hmm nice way to brush this away, unfortunately that isn't true. There are documents that the UN has that detail the contracts. This has nothing to do with you favorite scapegoat.

Sazar
06-16-04, 03:23 PM
Halliburton has nothing to do with this. ;)



its a little example... they had dealings in iraq and it didn't stop us going INTO iraq.. unless it was to give them a bigger slice of the pie <insert random conspiracy theory here> :D

Yes and the biggest part was involved.

WE are the biggest part...

You cannot just dismiss this as a op-ed. This information goes far beyond someone's opinion.

undoubtedly it does and I have acknowledged the oil-for-food inconsistencies and they do need to be investigated undoubtedly..

Hmm nice way to brush this away, unfortunately that isn't true. There are documents that the UN has that detail the contracts. This has nothing to do with you favorite scapegoat.

chalabi apparently was holding onto information and manipulating it to black-mail some people within iraq to back him or help him to his ends... this is from newsweek and time and other publications and not something I am making up :)

the UN needs to investigate this material as I said and they do need to make the findings public and clear up any inappropriate activities...

UDawg
06-16-04, 04:01 PM
WE are the biggest part...

No you are saying we were a part of the scandel. That is not what has been even talked about. It is Germany, Russia, France and high ranking official at the UN including the Secratary General him self. So nice try in trying to link us in on this. :D

undoubtedly it does and I have acknowledged the oil-for-food inconsistencies and they do need to be investigated undoubtedly..

Good. Here is my only point in this subject. It is that the parties that did not want to go to war with Iraq did so because of the contracts they had. It had nothing to do with morality and it never did. We know France doesn't have any morals any way. :D Seriously, they know when the contracts where brougt to light it would show how complisant they were with Saddam all the while pointing the finger at us. I am not using this as a justification to go to war but as a reason they did not go to war.

I will bet good money on the ending of this goes as followed. The commission does not get funed properly and cannot give a full detailed investigation. The lead investigator will resign out of fristration. They will appoint a new one who is weaker and then we will hear nothing of this ever again.

UDawg
06-16-04, 04:03 PM
chalabi apparently was holding onto information and manipulating it to black-mail some people within iraq to back him or help him to his ends... this is from newsweek and time and other publications and not something I am making up

You know my opinion of Chalibi, you can feed him to the dung beetles for all I care. He is a flesh spot on this earth.

Sazar
06-16-04, 05:20 PM
bush said you are either with us or against us...

why is it so hard to imagine that some countries may not have wanted to invest soldiers/resources and money into a war they did not feel was needed? heck there are many in america and britain who feel the war was not needed... it is not beyond reason and it does not need massive conspiracy theories wrt what happened...

I am sure it doesn't help and lends credence to the suggestions but it may not perhaps have been all about the oil-for-food affair... (lets call it oil-gate?)

the UN has been rather good with internal investigations... again probably because it is a sum of its parts and therefore is likely to be able to investigate itself and change... much like in the 90's when the UN stream-lined itself when many people thought it was not possible...

vampireuk
06-16-04, 05:23 PM
heck there are many in america and britain who feel the war was not needed...

Yeah, but they all smoke pot and smell bad!

UDawg
06-16-04, 05:39 PM
bush said you are either with us or against us...

He said "you are either with us or with the terrorists" There is a difference.

the UN has been rather good with internal investigations... again probably because it is a sum of its parts and therefore is likely to be able to investigate itself and change... much like in the 90's when the UN stream-lined itself when many people thought it was not possible...

First off that is debateable. Secondly this "sum of its parts" is a phrase you just made up to water down the issue. It is particularly dishonest saz. Your phrase is trying to associate the US into this. Nobody brought up any accusations against the US or the other countries in the UN. They only talked about the 3 countries named and the high ranking officials in the UN.

You are bringing up things you like about the UN to evade from the facts on the table. You are smarter than this.

why is it so hard to imagine that some countries may not have wanted to invest soldiers/resources and money into a war they did not feel was needed? heck there are many in america and britain who feel the war was not needed... it is not beyond reason and it does not need massive conspiracy theories wrt what happened...

Why is it so hard to believe the truth rather than create fiction. Most likely the fictional scenareo you created is much more appealing. ;) The many people in britan and America are not the governing body of the UN nore are they the goverments of Russia, France and Germany who are implicated.

(lets call it oil-gate?)

No because that associates all scandels with a Republican president. It is and shall remain the UN oil-for-food scandel.

Sazar
06-16-04, 06:00 PM
He said "you are either with us or with the terrorists" There is a difference.


really? coz I fail to see the difference... either people support his plan or they are terrorist supporters... ergo they are against bush's plans...

First off that is debateable. Secondly this "sum of its parts" is a phrase you just made up to water down the issue. It is particularly dishonest saz. Your phrase is trying to associate the US into this. Nobody brought up any accusations against the US or the other countries in the UN. They only talked about the 3 countries named and the high ranking officials in the UN.

we have a chain of theaters here called the alamo draft-house... before the movie they play lots of clips from back in the day (to 1940's thru the 70's) as pre-movie filler... you will be surprised @ the number of US adds post-1945/46 thru the 60's which state very clearly that the UN is a body that is a sum of its parts and that we as americans need to be a part of this institution...

the oil-for-food scandal involves afaik 270 odd companies from various countries... not just the 3 veto-wielding nations and there is an investigation taking place...

I am not trying to assosciate the us with the oil-for-food scandal.. I brought up halliburton to make a point which I spose has not made itself clear...

You are bringing up things you like about the UN to evade from the facts on the table. You are smarter than this.

I happen to think we NEED the united nations to be a part of this world.. it is the only body of its kind and it does (imo) more good than harm..

Why is it so hard to believe the truth rather than create fiction. Most likely the fictional scenareo you created is much more appealing. ;) The many people in britan and America are not the governing body of the UN nore are they the goverments of Russia, France and Germany who are implicated.

I spose I'll leave you with your superior logic then... I thought we were having a discussion...

UDawg
06-16-04, 06:17 PM
we have a chain of theaters here called the alamo draft-house... before the movie they play lots of clips from back in the day (to 1940's thru the 70's) as pre-movie filler... you will be surprised @ the number of US adds post-1945/46 thru the 60's which state very clearly that the UN is a body that is a sum of its parts and that we as americans need to be a part of this institution...

You are clearly trying to water down the issue by associating others into the scandel. Yes there are a number of companies invloved and some might be American but the principles are the fore mentioned.

I spose I'll leave you with your superior logic then... I thought we were having a discussion...

I wasn't being a jerk to you. We were having a discussion but every time we do and I disagree with you, you get mad. I am tired of trying to dance around your feelings. Can't we just have a discussion that and you not get mad at me? Honestly and I'm not angry but very frustrated. I am just besides my self that if I take any liberties AT ALL with my posts then some how I am the bad guy.

I give up saz. You win. I don't know how to discuss things rationaly with you so that you wont get mad or hurt. Good luck. :)

Sazar
06-16-04, 08:09 PM
You are clearly trying to water down the issue by associating others into the scandel. Yes there are a number of companies invloved and some might be American but the principles are the fore mentioned.


I am not trying to water down anything and I am not suggesting halliburton or any american companies was involved in some shady dealings with iraq pre-gulf war 2... my point was of a different/less controversial nature...


I wasn't being a jerk to you. We were having a discussion but every time we do and I disagree with you, you get mad. I am tired of trying to dance around your feelings. Can't we just have a discussion that and you not get mad at me? Honestly and I'm not angry but very frustrated. I am just besides my self that if I take any liberties AT ALL with my posts then some how I am the bad guy.


I don't have problems per se with your posts... but the liberties you take with calling some things facts and presenting them as such while in the same breath not even bothering to acknowledge ACTUAL facts is tiresome and frustrating for me as well :)

take into account your assertions of a saddam/osama link...

I disagree as I have since this was first proposed by the white house in the early days post 9/11 because of the fundamental flaws in the idealogy... it is easier to believe things because both parties are bad and therefore any links that involve bad things must automatically be true... I dont go along with that line of thinking..

the documents you have claimed have been un-earthed in iraq may well backup your POV and statements but I have not seen/nor heard of any such documents... the last I heard was your comment about something involving the CIA finding the documents...

OTOH we have statements from various officials linked to both saddam and osama... higher ups in the ranks of both sides who have continuously categorically denied any form of collaboration between the 2 parties and we have substantial information to show that osama in-fact was seeking to cause dissension v/s saddam and/or have him overthrown while al-qaeda worked in the north... this is KNOWN and has been proven by various bits of information released recently...

unfortunately regardless of how much information is released concerning dick cheney and george bush continue to allude to a vague link between the two even though both of them had stepped away from doing so till recently... even in light of more evidence and interrogation reports surfacing lending credence to that which we have known all along..

if there are links than I think it might well be in the interests of all parties concerned if they are un-earthed... naturally it would make it far easier for me to have a discussion about the same w/o being told that I am dodging the issue or some other such complaint... I am sorry if it seems that way for what its worth...