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Riptide
07-01-04, 02:42 PM
Is *ugly* right now. :)

Abit will not fix the multiplier lock issue with revision 1.0 boards. A new revision is coming out in a couple weeks (1.1) that will supposedly allow for this. And it has temp. monitoring problems.

The Asus has problems to. Working pci/agp locks depend on which serial # your board has and it requires a hacked BIOS to enable. Plus, it looks like Asus is officially disabling the function entirely from henceforth if what I read today is to be believed.

The gigabyte Nforce3 is expensive as hell, in stock @ one single place, and also has from what I hear some rather limited voltage adjustments. Plus, if you have a zalman like me it seems the NB fan would be in the way of it.

Goodness knows, those of you with skt940 and skt754 should wait a few months before even thinking of taking the dive into this if you want a nice bug-free mobo. My abit is a POS IMO but at this point the alternatives are not very attractive. Ouch...

Arioch
07-01-04, 03:08 PM
Gah that sucks dude - at this point I will probably be waiting for a second generation PCI Express system this time next year.

saturnotaku
07-01-04, 03:10 PM
Yeesh. This kind of makes me glad I went Intel this round since S940 is expensive and S754 will be on its last legs (plus I couldn't find a mobo that I really liked).

I feel for 'ya man. That's totally not cool.

|JuiceZ|
07-01-04, 03:11 PM
I know you're having some probs but all is not bad on the s754 front. I'm still pleased w/ my MSI K8N Platinum and once they release the bios update to correct the temp readings for newcastle a64's we'll be good as gold.

Sure, theres a lot of probs out there but com'on, the chipsets haven't even been in the retail market for a month yet. Patience is a virtue, one that many of us don't possess a lot of when it comes to new hw :angel2:

netviper13
07-01-04, 03:20 PM
That's the downside to early adoption. On the one hand you get bleeding-edge hardware with bleeding-edge performance, on the other hand you get all the bugs that come along with it.

Riptide
07-01-04, 03:25 PM
Wait a sec here JuiceZ, what temperature reading issue are you talking about with the newcastles? My FX53 is a newcastle core.

Arioch
07-01-04, 03:25 PM
I still like what AMD is offering with their A64 processors.

|JuiceZ|
07-01-04, 03:34 PM
Wait a sec here JuiceZ, what temperature reading issue are you talking about with the newcastles? My FX53 is a newcastle core.

AMD made changes to the cpu diode in newcastle a64's that allows the bios to gather temp readings. Most MB mfg's haven't updated their bioses to reflect this change and thus the sensors report approx 20c higher temp readings than they truly are.

Riptide
07-01-04, 05:28 PM
Wow JuiceZ, I wonder if that has anything to do with my problem then? It doesn't explain why it flip flops around in my BIOS w/each reboot (hot to cold and vice versa) but there does seem to be just about 20c difference between the two values.

Intriguing...

Viral
07-02-04, 12:06 AM
Wait a sec here JuiceZ, what temperature reading issue are you talking about with the newcastles? My FX53 is a newcastle core.

Not sure if CPU-Z or something reads it as a newcastle, but if it doesn't have 512KB L2 cache, it's not a newcastle.. I'm not sure of the exactl name for the S939 FX-53 core.

The K8T800pro boards are still having PCI/AGP lock problems and whatnot.. the support for the NF3 250 Ultra is fairly poor.. but by the looks of it the upcoming MSI board looks to be the best bet.. it should be available in a few days.

Son Goku
07-02-04, 02:33 AM
AMD made changes to the cpu diode in newcastle a64's that allows the bios to gather temp readings. Most MB mfg's haven't updated their bioses to reflect this change and thus the sensors report approx 20c higher temp readings than they truly are.

This explains a hell of a lot, the results you're getting are fubber Rip... And given your board doesn't have any BIOS updates yet... As of now, you can't trust your readings. If you have a thermo-couple, you could measure the CPU independently... For a good measure, the wire (if that's what the device is using) would need to be as close to the heatsink as possible, ake you would want it under the cooler, though I haven't seen it, so without looking I won't say anymore...

I know you're having some probs but all is not bad on the s754 front. I'm still pleased w/ my MSI K8N Platinum and once they release the bios update to correct the temp readings for newcastle a64's we'll be good as gold.

His CPU is an Athlon FX though, and he needs a socket 939 board, though looking at some reviews on MSI's 939 board might also be worthwhile for him, if he can work something out.

Sorry to hear your having all these upgrade woes though, and no doubt this has dug into your wallet a bit... Nothing like buying a new system and having everything mess up. Perhaps saz will be around to help you some more tomarrow (I haven't actually built one of these things, so am still finding out about them myself). Perhaps someone else has some ideas what you might do. In the meantime, you might want to look at some of the other boards and see what your options are.

Good luck man. From the sound of it all, it has rather sucked for ya.

Riptide
07-02-04, 09:46 AM
Judging from what I've been hearing the MSI seems like a good bet. Since everything else out there is the sux0r right now, I think I'll wait for it and just stick with this Abit POS for the moment. My machine is stable and it isn't frying, so for now I'm good to go. Just frustrated with some of the issues it has. But I can live with it for a while until something better comes along.

Even after the MSI comes out I'm going to wait a month or two before getting it. I want to make sure I understand what I'm getting into there before I bite. :)

Actually, it hasn't been complete suckage. For the most part I've actually been pretty pleased with the stability and I can now run my memory at tighter timings than I could with my canterwood board (D875PBZ). I was really afraid the VIA 4in1 drivers would be unstable vs. the Intel INF package but it hasn't been that way at all so far. So no complaints there... Just a little peaved at Abit. ;)

Son Goku
07-02-04, 04:53 PM
Funny thing is I have used Asus boards since the K7M? was it that they first released for the Athlon slot As, in the vanilla box...not wanting Intel or whatever to know they had them? :lol: But from all these accounts, yeah peeps seem to be having more success with the MSI boards (which them years ago I wasn't certain about). Ah well, it comes down to the product anyhow... :D

Sounds like a plan... Good luck, and hopefully it will all work out.

Yeah, the Via 4-in-1 drivers seemed fine with me back on the K7V133a I used to have (for my 1 GHz Tbird). There might have been a slight thing when one loaded them wrt other updates (don't remember exactly, anymore). But all in all, I didn't really have problems...

DiscipleDOC
07-02-04, 05:43 PM
I know you're having some probs but all is not bad on the s754 front. I'm still pleased w/ my MSI K8N Platinum and once they release the bios update to correct the temp readings for newcastle a64's we'll be good as gold.

Sure, theres a lot of probs out there but com'on, the chipsets haven't even been in the retail market for a month yet. Patience is a virtue, one that many of us don't possess a lot of when it comes to new hw :angel2:

Same here. I'm very pleased with my setup.

fleshonbone
07-04-04, 07:49 PM
Judging from what I've been hearing the MSI seems like a good bet. Since everything else out there is the sux0r right now, I think I'll wait for it and just stick with this Abit POS for the moment. My machine is stable and it isn't frying, so for now I'm good to go. Just frustrated with some of the issues it has. But I can live with it for a while until something better comes along.

Even after the MSI comes out I'm going to wait a month or two before getting it. I want to make sure I understand what I'm getting into there before I bite. :)

Actually, it hasn't been complete suckage. For the most part I've actually been pretty pleased with the stability and I can now run my memory at tighter timings than I could with my canterwood board (D875PBZ). I was really afraid the VIA 4in1 drivers would be unstable vs. the Intel INF package but it hasn't been that way at all so far. So no complaints there... Just a little peaved at Abit. ;)

I have posted this a number of times here as I've had quite a bit of experience with the s754 boards:

All the 754 based boards have had silent recalls mostly due to DIMM socket and memory based problems, except for the SiS 755/760 based Foxconn.

AMD also had initial problems with the 2800+ (512kb L2 cache) and 3000+ (512kb L2 cache) on-baord memory controllers.

If you are going the 754 route, stick with the 3200+ (1MB L2) and above.

I have built about 25 754 based AMD64 systems, and IMO, I would stick with the Foxconn, which is what we are now using for our engineer's at work.

Granted they don't offer all the o/c features as the other boards, but they are considerably cheaper pricewise (about $90), come with all the same features (1600 hypertransport, gigabit Ethernet, SATA RAID, USB 2.0, 8x AGP etc etc), and I have not had a single problem with the 8 we are now using at work, nor the one I bought for myself a couple months ago.

Since the AMD64 platform does not have a northbridge (ie mem. controller is on the chip), the performance of all the boards are virtually identical, therefore stability should be your primary concern. Foxconn has been around for a long time, and although you may have never heard of them, chances are every single computer you've owned probably had/has some kind of Foxconn mfg'd part in them as they've been mfg'ing computer and motherboard components for a long time.

Put it this way, I think Intel is generally recognized as being more stable, chipset wise than AMD - and guess who is (and has been) the exclusive manufacturer of Intel chipset components - you guessed it - Foxconn. That means when you look at your Asus mobo with that Intel chipset on it, the actual "Intel" stamped components are 90% mfg'd by Foxconn.

Although I've been a huge fan of Asus for nearly 10 years now, and almost use their products exclusively for home and the mfg firm I admin, IMO, you stand a much greater chance of running into problems with a 754 socket based system and anything but the Foxconn - I'm pretty sure this is why AMD phased out the 754's so quickly in favor of the 939's in the first place.

I am quite pleased with my 3200+ coupled with the 755/760 SiS chipset. I have never been a fan of VIA or SiS, but I must say it is very stable and the performance is awesome.

For about $500 you could have the mobo, a 3200+ and a GB of good RAM. For that kind of 32bit performance you are going to spend that much or more for the chip alone with an Intel.

EDIT: Gigabyte makes a SiS based 755/760 board as well, but we have been so pleased with the Foxconn, we never bothered trying it.

PaiN
07-08-04, 08:52 AM
I still like what AMD is offering with their A64 processors.

I have too agree....I'd really love an A64-FX (939), but I can't find the right mobo, the selection is limited as hell, none that are out fit what I want. I see re\pre-views of other boards but not much(and who cares if you can't buy it).
Now, the, nf4 is looming??? I likely end up running this platform until PCI-Ex mobo are strong later this year and skip the whole 939 thing all together....damn boards :screwy:

Riptide
07-08-04, 09:22 AM
It does seem to be taking them *forever* to get more s939 boards out on the market. I wonder WTH the holdup is.

Gator
07-08-04, 10:48 AM
It does seem to be taking them *forever* to get more s939 boards out on the market. I wonder WTH the holdup is.

Ya I don't understand why S939 mobos are being released so slowly. And to date I know of only one NF3 S939 available. And while I usually really like Gigabyte products (hence my video card and motherboard are Gigabyte), the layout of this new board looks horrible.


Very noisy chipset and DPS fans, Uses a Marvell PCI gigabit chip instead of the integrated Nvidia Gigabit, primary sata connectors are in a horrible position right above the AGP slot, memory slots are right next to each other rather than alternated per channel, so dimms tend to get very hot in dual-channel mode. Not a very good design.
http://images10.newegg.com/productimage/13-128-254-02.JPG

Riptide
07-08-04, 11:37 AM
The Abit also doesn't stagger the DIMM slots either. Both my pieces of memory are right next to each other and I wasn't crazy about that either.

Plus, that fan right behind the CPU socket seems like it would be tall enough to interfere with mounting my zalman 7000cu.

tieros
07-11-04, 02:47 AM
[QUOTE=Gator]Ya I don't understand why S939 mobos are being released so slowly. And to date I know of only one NF3 S939 available. And while I usually really like Gigabyte products (hence my video card and motherboard are Gigabyte), the layout of this new board looks horrible.

It's a LOT better layout than it appears :)

A Zalman cooler fits easily. The HSF retention bracket makes it look like a tighter squeeze than it really is. I started off with the stock HSF, then tried an extra Zalman I have here, but ended up going with a Thermaltake "Silent" Tower heatpipe cooler. Now THAT'S a fan you can hear :) It's the biggest thing I've ever seen strapped to a CPU. Imagine a cube of 40 or so kraft cheese slices. Now replace the cheese with aluminum sheets, and the cellophane wrapper with blue aluminum. Then glue a 120mm fan on one side, and place the whole thing on a 3 inch tall copper pedestal. Voila :)
But man does that puppy do a good job cooling. My 3500+ is running 20-21c idle (ambient is 15c), and 25c under load, exactly half of the Athlon 1900+ it's replacing.


I'm not sure what that newegg reviewer was listening to, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't the DPS or northbridge cooling fans. Mine are totally silent.

Dual channel mode does require adjacent sticks of RAM, but they are oriented vertically, so you really don't get any hotspots on them. I've got a case with a top mounted fan, which really seems to help suck the heat off of them.

Two of the SATA connectors (the nForce ones) are between the AGP slot and CPU, but they aren't on the fan side of the GPU, and the SATA cables don't get in the way of any air paths by being located there. The only thing I would change is to rotate the connectors 90 degrees so I could stack the two cables together and tie them so they would lay cleanly across the visible part of the mobo.

It's an nForce 3 Ultra chipset, not a 250Gb, so I'm not sure why he's expecting an integrated gigabit port :)

The one big gotcha with this mobo (and probably all of the other 939s) is RAM timing. The SPD settings on today's RAM (even stuff designated as dual channel) are too low for the 939s on-board controller in dual channel mode. The default on this mobo is to run the RAM at SPD, and to see the advanced bios options, you have to know the secret handshake (Ctrl-F1 for anyone looking).

I bought a matched pair of Mushkin 3200 2-3-2 sticks, and they run fine in single channel mode at 2-3-2, but in dual channel mode they can't keep up. I have the RAM at 2.5-4-2 now, and it's rock solid. The Mushkin web site has some good info about this for folks that are interested.

The only downside I've seen with the K8NSNXP-939 is the pricetag. I really wasn't looking to pay a premium for a 939 socket AND a 939 CPU, but so far they both seem to be worth it. When you consider how many of the features on the mobo are "dual" (dual failover 3-phase power, dual bios, dual sata raid, dual lan controllers), and the shear number of ports and extension brackets, the price does seem to be justified.

I may take some pictures of the new computer when I'm finished. This is the first one I am trying to make look pretty AND run well :)

Riptide
07-14-04, 02:15 PM
*bumping* this because I have some new information.

I got off the phone w/Abit this morning and they told me that revision 1.1 should now be in distribution. This is no guarantee that if you order one you'll get it, but they are out there now. Or at least that is what I was told.

Now, I called up gameve this morning and asked them if they have any of these newer revision boards. They said that they do indeed have them. I have arranged for an RMA w/advanced replacement and requested specifically that they ship me a revision 1.1 due to the fact it addresses the multiplier issue with 1.0.

Regarding the temperature reporting problems. The Abit tech said they were aware of this and had submitted a request to the engineers that they have a look and see if they can replicate it. With this in mind, I will resubmit another bug report just to make sure they get the message. It looks like they may be working on this, however, which is good news.

Now, after saying all of this, I have learned that you can't always trust what the person on the other end of the line tells you. So in other words, I may have been fed full of it by Abit and Gameve. Take this all with a grain of salt.

Gator
07-14-04, 09:54 PM
Good luck Riptide, I sure hope Gameve makes good on this. Keep us posted!

If this doesn't resolve your problems, check out that Nforce3 Ultra board I mentioned, hopefully it'll provide less headache.

Savage101
07-14-04, 10:11 PM
The gigabyte is top notch. I got one running at 275x10, stable as a rock

Gator
07-14-04, 10:46 PM
The gigabyte is top notch. I got one running at 275x10, stable as a rock

Wait a second, you have a 2ghz S939 A64 at 2.75ghz?! Are you serious?! Are you sure?! OMFG!!!

Riptide, sell the Abit board when the new one arrive and get the Gigabyte NF3 Ultra!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :drooling:

Savage101
07-14-04, 10:53 PM
nah, i'm running an FX53 which comes stock at 2.4;) I was pointing out that the board itself is amazing as its running at 275htt.

Whats up btw? Didn't know you also posted here..