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evilchris
07-05-04, 02:10 PM
I am seriously amazed that the 3 month mark is nearing and most people still can't walk into a major retailer and buy either ATI nor NVIDIA's new offering. :lame:

This has got to be the worst launch ever. The refresh will be "launched" before most people can get their hands on this launch.

Riptide
07-05-04, 02:11 PM
I sympathize with the frustration. I am lucky that I got my XT when I did even though I allowed myself to be gouged for it.

CaptNKILL
07-05-04, 02:22 PM
Im not going to complain too much, but I agree. Its been 3 months and we still arent seeing the cards reliably available at any dealers, let alone available everywhere.

:bs:

Arioch
07-05-04, 03:24 PM
Well I have actually seen some Visiontek X800 Pro cards at Fry's a few weeks ago and some BFG 6800GT OC cards today. The X800 cards sold out in two days and haven't been back on the shelves since. I expect the 6800GT cards to be gone soon also.

I do agree it is pretty sad.

Jedi Rainman
07-05-04, 03:36 PM
My BFG 6800 U OC will be here tomorrow morning.

sonyman
07-05-04, 03:37 PM
My BFG 6800 U OC will be here tomorrow morning.
Ditto.

Scott

Arioch
07-05-04, 03:37 PM
My BFG 6800 U OC will be here tomorrow morning.

Nice, but I am betting you ordered it online as I haven't heard of any of the high end cards from either company being in an actual brick and mortar retailer yet.

sancheuz
07-05-04, 03:50 PM
I think you are absolutely right. We've know about the 6800 now it seems like forever, and still i've yet to see any cards in any Miami retail store. NOt only that, but i went to compusa the other day, and they said expected date of arrival of the 6800, get this 2 to 3 weeks. By that time it will have nearly been 4 months since 6800 launch.

evilchris
07-05-04, 04:02 PM
My BFG 6800 U OC will be here tomorrow morning.

Nice tunnel vision. I guess worldwide demand has been met now, and the cards are on time and readily available, since yours will be there tomorrow morning.

Riptide
07-05-04, 04:04 PM
Have we heard what the reason for this delay is? Seems like both companies have been pretty tight lipped.

SmuvMoney
07-05-04, 04:04 PM
With the exception of the X800 Pro, this has been a lousy launch for both sides. I can actually go out and find an x800 Pro in some B&M (brick and mortar) stores - saw one yesterday in the local MicroCenter. I didn't buy it because I wanted an XT. In any case, almost everything else has to be purchased online unless you got some inside connections (employee discount, distributor, etc). I hope this changes by mid-July.

Arioch
07-05-04, 04:22 PM
Have we heard what the reason for this delay is? Seems like both companies have been pretty tight lipped.

Well I do not know for sure but I suspect that going into this product cycle both companies felt pretty confident that their cards were going to be faster than the other company's offering and maybe underestimated them a bit. Before the early previews came out for the 6800 Ultra I think ATI was thinking their X800 Pro was going to be fast enough and was going to save the X800XT for their fall refresh. They then not only had to step up their release time for the X800XT, but also had to bump up the speed a bit for the PE version. This may have turned out harder than expected manufacturing wise and they may be having yield issues. I am willing to bet Nvidia is having similar issues for the same reason.

I would like to point out that I work for a custom manufacturing house that does prototype work for companies like Cisco Systems. Some of the problems that are run into include issues like yield problems with microchips, heat-related problems, etc.

That's my take on the slow launch anyway.

euan
07-05-04, 06:40 PM
Reason why they are so few high end cards from either side is probably because they are both super over-clocking their cards as soon as they come off the production line. Both feaverishly trying to find their golden sample super mega XT Ultra XT XT^2 supreme Pro ultra*Infinity batch. No doubt destroying them in the process.

Just my 2 cents. :angel2:

WeReWoLf
07-05-04, 07:40 PM
I suspect that maybe nVidia is holding out the Ultra's at least until DOOM 3 comes out. Then Bundle a high priced game and a high priced VGA Card together and jack the price up higher.

evilchris
07-05-04, 07:42 PM
I suspect that maybe nVidia is holding out the Ultra's at least until DOOM 3 comes out. Then Bundle a high priced game and a high priced VGA Card together and jack the price up higher.

NVIDIA doesn't sell cards to end users so it is inconceivable that they could do this.

WeReWoLf
07-05-04, 07:46 PM
NVIDIA doesn't sell cards to end users so it is inconceivable that they could do this.
I know that, but they are the ones that are dealing with Id Software directly. They are the ones who will set up the interaction between the 6800 and DOOM 3 and any resellers that want in on the deal will sign up on it. I do believe this will be the course of action (if it does happen) because Nvidia has been working with Id Software making DOOM 3 TWIMTBP

TacT
07-05-04, 07:48 PM
The most annoying gfx card launch in history. If the cards still aren't widely available until early August that wouldn't surprise me either :clap:

GlowStick
07-05-04, 07:48 PM
Actually,

I look at the situation this way.

ATi claims to have no yeild problmes on their R420

Nvidia claims to have no yeild problems on their NV40

Why are there no 'top dog' cards eg. XT-PE and Ultra

Well the only common denomiator is GDDR3, it seems the 6800 Non-Ultras (witch use ddr1) can be found at alot of Online retailers.

6800 GT and X800 Pro's (both wittch use GDDR3, however its slower clocked) seem to be avalible in online stores and some retail outlets. However their GDDR3 is lower clocked so we would expect better yeilds on it.

However the good stuff just seems to not be avalible.

Arioch
07-05-04, 07:49 PM
I suspect that maybe nVidia is holding out the Ultra's at least until DOOM 3 comes out. Then Bundle a high priced game and a high priced VGA Card together and jack the price up higher.

I find this unlikely as some people will get tired of waiting for the card and maybe buy one from their competitor ATI.

CainSyris
07-05-04, 11:46 PM
Actually,

I look at the situation this way.

ATi claims to have no yeild problmes on their R420

Nvidia claims to have no yeild problems on their NV40

Why are there no 'top dog' cards eg. XT-PE and Ultra

Well the only common denomiator is GDDR3, it seems the 6800 Non-Ultras (witch use ddr1) can be found at alot of Online retailers.

6800 GT and X800 Pro's (both wittch use GDDR3, however its slower clocked) seem to be avalible in online stores and some retail outlets. However their GDDR3 is lower clocked so we would expect better yeilds on it.

However the good stuff just seems to not be avalible.


All of what you're saying could as easily be used to prove why they don't have sufficient yields on cores. 6800GT and X800 Pro's (both which use the same cores but lower clocked) seem to be available in online stores and some retail outlets (very few). However their cores are lower clocked so we would expect better yields on it.

The truth is that the reason we don't see many GF6800U's or X800XT PE's is because ATI and nVidia competely miscalculated all parts of this so-called "launch" and are now hoping that mainstream cards gouged at highend prices will make up the difference.

The main difference between this launch and other launches is that nVidia and ATI made the mistake of trying to release the "back up" card they always have waiting in the wings just in case the enemy has something ten times better. And neither was ready to do so. They should have just released the GF6800GT as the Ultra and ATI release the X800 Pro as the XT and then do the Ultra and the XT PE (respectively) this coming Fall as the refresh and then they'd have enough stock to fulfill demands for both now and this Fall for each part respectively.

Instead, we were told about the refresh during the Spring launch and now all we're doing is waiting on the refresh rather than the launch. I think ATI and nVidia will not make this mistake again.

Amuro
07-05-04, 11:54 PM
Can anyone tell me the difference between a Radeon X800 XT Non-PE and the XT PE version? I can't find any info on it even on ATi site.

Arioch
07-05-04, 11:57 PM
Can anyone tell me the difference between a Radeon X800 XT Non-PE and the XT PE version? I can't find any info on it even on ATi site.

The X800XT PE is the AGP version clocked at 520/560 while the X800XT is the PCI Express version that is going to be clocked at 500/500. Some of the third part companies do not put the PE suffix on their card but if it's the AGP version it should be clocked at 520/560 still.

Amuro
07-06-04, 12:04 AM
Thanks for the info, Arioch .

It looks like there's also going to be a X800 XT PE for the PCI-e config:
http://www.ati.com/products/radeonx800/radeonx800series/index.html

Not sure if it's going to be clocked same as the AGP version.

coldpower27
07-06-04, 12:05 AM
They still have to release some sort of fall refresh, NV48 and R480 cores have got to be faster in some way in relation to the R420/R423 and NV40/NV45. Or else there wouldn't be any reason to release such things. 1.6ns GDDR3 SDRAM maybe the common denominator as to why the cards are'nt released in high quantity yet. But I do see merit, in the core yield scenario, but we don't have reason to believe that either Nvidia and ATI are lying, and I use innocent till proven guilty so I suppose Geforce 6800 Ultra and Radeon X800 XT PE should have fine yeilds save for the RAM.

Why doens't ATI just release plain jane Radeon X800 XT, the one with 500/1000 clocks with 16x1 architecture, that would be more then enough to compete witg Geforce 6800 GT and wouldn't be affected by the 1.6ns GDDR3 issues.

rohackle
07-06-04, 01:42 AM
I find this unlikely as some people will get tired of waiting for the card and maybe buy one from their competitor ATI.

actually all the crap about the x800xts made me go for a 6800gt. Both companies reek of stinky poo right now.. But at least nvidia has a nice card to actually sell...6800gt