NV30 Final Fantasy in real time

[Nv40]

you are going to see now Doom5 .. :)
some real time shots of the movie FInal Fantasie in real time ... take a look ...............


http://www.pcrave.com/screenshot.htm?/images/reviews/gf3ti500/aki_leaningaa.jpg



the main page with more screenshots here .


http://www.pcrave.com/reviews/245.htm



quote from the site..

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The Final Fantasy Demo
During Siggraph this year, NVIDIA showed off a realtime demo based on the Squaresoft Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within movie that was released this year. While the movie was a commercial failure (doing under 30 million domestically), the visual effects were simply gorgeous. Using farms of thousands of supercomputers, the movie used Computer Generated images to depict a science fiction movie based on the Role-Playing Game of the same name. The hair on the star of the show: Dr Aki Ross, consisted of literally 1.5 million individual hair strands. The movie also uses sophisticated pixel and vertex shaders to deal with skin blemishes and the realistic look of the faces.

The NVIDIA demo shown at Siggraph used the GeForce3's pixel and vertex shaders to give many of the same visual effects as the movie. While the scale of the movie compared to the demo are differrent, 80 foot tall movie theater screens versus 21 inch or so monitors, the look and feel of the movies are there. Clothing is realistically modeled, skin blemishes are modeled, and the hair was realisticly done. Regardless of how close it comes to the actual movie, the demo is a major step forward in what's possible on a $300 videocard. Imagine, for a moment, movie companies doing a scale verson of a CG movie, with most of the effects intact. Instead of years of processing work, it might take hours to do an approximation of the actual product.

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yes ,the demo was on a Geforce3/4 in real time but not
with all the eye candy on of the movie ,but i think the above screenshots demostrated ,as i said ,is not impossible to see
in less than a year the real thing in 10/10 the image quality
of the movie in real time.... in Nvdia NV3x cinefx cards... ;)

[StealthHawk]

this is the same thing that has been discussed previously then?

Doom 5 is about 10 years away, i see no reason to get excited.

[Mono]

... I swear, it'll take devs another 50 years to figure out how to make hair look real.

[Bigus Dickus]

Is that the same Final Fantasy demo that was done with 1/10th the number of polygons and half the lighting effects as the actual movie?

[borntosoul]

does it really MATTER how many polys or wiff waffs or thingamagigs a model has ?big deal if they can run the demo cut down a bit ,in game play i bet most wouldnt notice much of a difference , as long as it looks cool ! dont get chocked up on the technology ,is see musicians doing the same with music ,they get so chocked up on theory thats theres is no music anymore ,

[LORD-eX-Bu]

Originally posted by Mono
... I swear, it'll take devs another 50 years to figure out how to make hair look real.

Probably not the best hair... but I like it.:D
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?s=&postid=31087

[nutball]

Originally posted by borntosoul
does it really MATTER how many polys or wiff waffs or thingamagigs a model has ?

Yes, it matters very much.

It's not all about getting hung up on technology. I've seen this idiotic argument that this is "Final Fantasy in real-time" too many times. It is not Final Fantasy in real-time. Full stop. End of story! Anybody who says it is knows nothing about CGI.

Ask yourself, if those polygons weren't necessary, why would they be there in the original movie?

[borntosoul]

what i was trying to say is not getting caught up on all that garbage ,hehe i know theyre importance :) ive been with computers since the c 64 ,and ive seen all the transitions in between

[borntosoul]

and that why i dont get into all the hype ! we r still in the stone age with computers and we could easily use 10,000,000 times more graphics /computer power than what we got now ,that just puts everything in perspective :)

[nutball]

Originally posted by borntosoul
what i was trying to say is not getting caught up on all that garbage ,hehe i know theyre importance :) ive been with computers since the c 64 ,and ive seen all the transitions in between

You mean we should all chill out? I'd agree with that. :cool: :D

What irritates me about the FF demo in particular is that it's been widely misrepresented by the media, and folks just seem to swallow the hype because they want to believe. NVIDIA haven't really gone out of their way to correct the problem either.

So you're C64 vintage are ya? :cool: I started with the Sinclair ZX81, which must be what 20 years ago? Yikes, showing my age!:eek:

[Nv40]

many people here doesnt read carefully ,before answering .
i have not said we will be playing games like final fantasy
in the the next year ,so my post was for realtimes demos
that everytime gets better and better ,showing the power
of video cards.. as we know , games today are playable in
3 years old video card.

Originally posted by Mono
... I swear, it'll take devs another 50 years to figure out how to make hair look real.

50 years are you kidding ?
that will be probably true if in the third world war an atomic Bomb
explode in Northamerica/and Japan at the same time, but otherwise Dont underestimate the Gaming Industry .. dude.


what i was trying to say is not getting caught up on all that garbage ,hehe i know theyre importance ive been with computers since the c 64 ,and ive seen all the transitions in between

your lack of vision makes me believe ,you dont have a clue in the
Quantum diference between 15years ago in CG graphics vs what we have today at home ..

i owned the commodore 64/ (16 colors? )games too with
a 64k memory machine with 3.23 MHertz processor ... lol!
and while the games were GREAT! by their time
the diference between 15years ago and today is nothing
less than 10times AMAZIng!

Indeed ,the diference in GRAPHICS between next year Doom3 and FInalfantasy the movie is much much much smaller ;
than between Doom3 and and 1986-super mariosbros .. Lol!

what about the ATARi games 20 years ago ?
jeez ..

for today games ,pixel shaders 1.4 already do a decent hair
not "realistic" but something not so incredible Far
from the the Final fantasy hair! .. hehe

even the Final fantasy movie :the spirit within doesnt have the
look of "REAL LIFE " skin or hair if you look
them in the movie in the light .

So i dont think that any game with the 10/10 the quality of final fantasy movie should do the the characters exactly
as they were made on the movie ..

i cant imagine anyone complaning .."hey the girl is this game
doesnt have 1.5 millions polygons" like they do it in the movie..
you can achieve "fake" something similar in a r300/nv30 video card (when available) without all that huge count of polys. :D

DirectX9 specs already have enough presicion to match
the Image quality graphics of any movie CG movie ,what is still needed is the brute force power to move games with a couple of millions of Polygons ,the hair of AKI in FF movie have more polygons than the Body of the character .. :eek:


in less than 15 years ,the Landmark in computer graphics was
the short animation Pixar's LUXOR junior ..

http://www.pixar.com/companyinfo/history/1987.html

it took very expensive Craig Supercomputers and many months
to render all those frames in the short animation .

but Nvidia demostrated a demo of Luxo Junior , at a MACexpo last year in realtime in a geforce3.
in less than 15 years PIXAR's LuxorJr ,Nvidia Geforce3 matched the work done in million of dollars workstation servers .. :eek:


in 1-2 years ;it will not be possible to do big scenes of the movie
in Nvidia/ATi , direcx's 9 / top of the line cards;
but surely we will see some FF short demos in realtime at some special shots of the movie in 10/10 of the image quality .
->DEMOS showing the true Power of the video cards. ;)

a question could be ..
but if we are so far in years to see that quality in games ;
what is the reason to get excited ?

mmm .because games with that kind of quality can take more
than 5years!!! to develop ,so if we see the power today in a video card in -> demos ,we will surely see it in
games in a not so far future . what you see in video cards today in demos , will be a reality in games in 3-5 years ;)


and in just 10 more years ,if things go well ,i believe many games
will be FInal fantasy quality at least ,probably first in available in
Consoles like playstation4 or XBOX4 ... or who knows if ATI and
NVIDIA continues being so aggressive with a little of help of
INTEL and/or AMD, this will probably be much much closer than
that , in the not so far future . .. ;)

[StealthHawk]

i believe the actual point is that computationally, the demo, while looking somewhat close to the movie, is actually quite a far bit off.

will this hypothetical change in 1 year? maybe. but i probably wouldn't count on it.

[Mod]

Originally posted by |TX|-LORD-EX-BU
Probably not the best hair... but I like it.:D


Isn't it a CG contest winner at CG site ?

[nutball]

Originally posted by Nv40
Indeed ,the diference in GRAPHICS between next year Doom3 and FInalfantasy the movie is much much much smaller ;
than between Doom3 and and 1986-super mariosbros .. Lol!


That's an interesting assertion. Can you back that up?


So i dont think that any game with the 10/10 the quality of final fantasy movie should do the the characters exactly
as they were made on the movie ..

i cant imagine anyone complaning .."hey the girl is this game
doesnt have 1.5 millions polygons" like they do it in the movie..
you can achieve "fake" something similar in a r300/nv30 video card (when available) without all that huge count of polys. :D


Point is you can't fake it using low poly-count models. Look at that guys head! Does your forehead slope like that? Mine doesn't!

Hair is another thing altogether. Some things are just plain hard to do in CGI, regardless of how much power you have at your disposal.

What it boils down to is that the assumptions made in CGI about the interaction between light and matter are incorrect. The real world doesn't work like CGI thinks it does.

It'll never look right until it's done properly. Doing it properly is just plain difficult!

[Bigus Dickus]

NV40, you say that DX9 is capable of meeting the quality of current movie-quality off-line CGI rendering.

I wouldn't really agree. Many CGI renders are done using ray-tracing, photon maps, etc. While you might be able to write shader functions that can calculate these types of rendering in multiple passes, I wouldn't really say they're supported in DX9. In fact, they could just as easily be done in OGL as in DX (and likely they would, I would guess).

[SnakeEyes]

Probably more easily in OpenGL than in DX. According to one of today's front-page news item links, OpenGL will have support for all of nV30's capabilities, while DX9 will lack some things.

[LORD-eX-Bu]

Originally posted by Mod
Isn't it a CG contest winner at CG site ?

No, I made it last night.:D

[ben6]

As the author of the review in question, my point was not that the movie and the demo were identical, because of course they're not. However what was accomplished with the demo was amazing. And I imagine with the 9700 Pro/9700/NV30 level of performance being where it is , we could see amazing demos of realtime scenes being rendered.

Note the demo shots were taken on a Quadro DCC (the workstation equivalent of Geforce3)

Ben

[Mono]

Originally posted by borntosoul
does it really MATTER how many polys or wiff waffs or thingamagigs a model has ?big deal if they can run the demo cut down a bit ,in game play i bet most wouldnt notice much of a difference , as long as it looks cool ! dont get chocked up on the technology ,is see musicians doing the same with music ,they get so chocked up on theory thats theres is no music anymore ,

Well i'm sorry, but imo the movie looked leaps and bounds superior to those screencaps.

[Mono]

Originally posted by Nv40
50 years are you kidding ?
that will be probably true if in the third world war an atomic Bomb
explode in Northamerica/and Japan at the same time, but otherwise Dont underestimate the Gaming Industry .. dude.


It was an exaggeration, but I don't think i'm the only one who's getting tired of seeing crappy hair... year after year after year... :\

[StealthHawk]

and i don't think i'm the only one who's getting tired of tech demos, tech demos, tech demos. great, you can have your nice looking tech demo that takes full(?) advantage of your expensive shiny hardware. too bad those are the only applications that do :p

[Mod]

Originally posted by StealthHawk
and i don't think i'm the only one who's getting tired of tech demos, tech demos, tech demos. great, you can have your nice looking tech demo that takes full(?) advantage of your expensive shiny hardware. too bad those are the only applications that do :p


Ask TX-LORD to make a Doom 3 style game, with artificial level generation so eficient as we saw in River Raid, but now for advanced 3D graphics:D.

[Mod]

Originally posted by |TX|-LORD-EX-BU
No, I made it last night.:D

Here ! :D

http://www.cgshaders.org/shaders/show.php?id=13

[Juntari]

And how long until the sheer brilliance of the tech demoes could be applicable in actual gaming, etc. Probably 5 to 10 years would not be a gross overestimate. As everyone knows about PC gaming, part of the graphics are scaled down to meet the defacto standard that the most average consumer would use, and that's the bottom line. If GeForce 4 can render a scene from Final Fantasy that was stripped down yet there is no possibility to incorporate that detail in games, then it would make sense to realize that when average consumer can opt to play the games featuring this amount of detail, it would be at least one year removed from the actual launch of the card that makes it a possibility. That's why I call it 5 to 10 years (or more).

[LORD-eX-Bu]

nVIDIA's CEO, forgot his name, stated that it will take 10 years to acheive photo realistic real time graphics. :D