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View Full Version : Long-Standing Q3 Engine Problem. . .


Hurin
07-19-04, 05:05 PM
Howdy All,

I used to have this problem with Jedi Outcast, and Jedi Academy. Then I switched to an ATI 9800XT and the problem went away. Now I'm back with an NVIDIA 6800GT (@ 400/1GHz), and I'm noticing the problem again, though this time in Call of Duty.

In all three games (all Quake3 Engine-based), in the single-player game, often, after I die, when I return to the game, performance is severely decreased. With show_fps running, I'll get like 25fps where I would normally be at the max of 85fps.

Doing a vid_restart or restarting the game altogether, of course, fixes the problem. But it's pretty annoying and takes me out of the game.

I always assumed this was a driver problem with NVIDIA. Nearly all factors of my computer have changed since I had the problem prior. I'm just finding it hard to believe that this Q3-engine-wide problem is still around and that so few people seem to notice it.

Has anyone else noticed this problem? Any solutions? Could it possibly be something I've done wrong each and ever time I've built three seperate computer with all different hardware?!? :P

Thanks!

H

OWA
07-19-04, 05:13 PM
I don't have Jedi Academy loaded currently but COD works fine for me. I noticed that the profile nvidia supplies for COD has the texture conformant clamp set to off and it is the same for JA, Quake 3, etc. Maybe you should double-check to make sure that hasn't been changed. Although, from the description of what that option does, I doubt that is the problem. Anyway, I've never had a problem with JA, Q3, MOHAA, and COD. I don't have JO so I'm not sure about that one.

Hurin
07-19-04, 05:46 PM
Hi,

Thanks for the reply. Would you mind trying to replicate the issue? I've found a spot where I can make it happen 95% of the time.

Go to your first auto-save within Burnville (burnville-1.svg). You should be just above the first two machine gun nests that attacked you while you crossed the cow-laden field. Your Captain is telling you "good job. . ."

Come down the stairs and join your buddies at the wall. A few seconds later, you should have some nazis approach you from the vicinity of the fire burning to the right of your position (while looking at your buds). Once they are dead and things are peaceful. Look at the fire like so:

http://www.dor-lomin.com/forum-images/cod/cod-85.jpg

Things should be fine.

Now. . . GO DIE! I usually accomplish this by charging the MG on the half-track. :)

Once you're dead, just click "continue game" and it should put you back at the burnville-1 autosave. Now. . . just repeat the steps above. Kill those nazis to make it peaceful. But check out your framerates now. . . which becomes especially noticeable when looking at the fire (and killing those nazis while looking at the fire!)

http://www.dor-lomin.com/forum-images/cod/cod-20.jpg

My FPS are down around my knees at this point unless I do a vid_restart. 20fps!!! It's not that bad while not looking at the fire. But it's noticably degraded until I restart.

Please note: This only seems to be a problem when AA and AF are enabled. I have only seen this when I have 4AA/8AF enabled. I tried to replicate it with these turned off and I could not get the bug to appear.

It's my theory that it has something to do with the "slow-mo" death sequence. I think that it is somehow sticking and screwing something up. Just a theory though.

Here's my specs, in case anyone cares. OWA, I see you have an AMD. I'm Intel, so it would be doubly interesting to see if you can replicate the problem.

Abit IC7-MAX3
P4 3.0c @ 3.45
1GB Corsair 3200XL
NVIDIA 6800GT (PNY) @ 400/1.0GHz
Audigy 2 Zs

Thanks!

H

P.S. Here's (www.dor-lomin.com/forum-images/cod/burnville-1.svg) a link to the saved game file if you don't the save any longer.

noko
07-19-04, 06:23 PM
I've seen this on my GF3 come to think about it in CoD, its like your video card is running textures from your system ram vice video card ram. Try lowering your AGP aperture and increasing it to see if this makes a difference. Currently I don't have any QuakeIII game engine games loaded on my gaming machine. Will shortly after I install CoD on my somewhat new system.

Hurin
07-19-04, 06:33 PM
Thanks for the reply!

Some new notes:

1. It only seems to happen at 1600x1200 (or higher?).
2. It only seems to happen if AA is at 4x or higher.
3. AF setting level has no effect (not a cause).

I've made a new saved game that more easily demonstrates the problem if all the above is true (also, turn off "synch every frame" in the game options so you can see your actual fps and note them).

1. Load this (http://www.dor-lomin.com/forum-images/cod/testsave.svg) saved game. You will already be looking at the fire.
2. After a few seconds, note your FPS.
3. Now turn around and charge that half track waiting for you at the end of the railroad track! This should get you nice and dead.
4. Now click "continue game" from the "death quote" screen.
5. Note the new FPS while looking at the fire. It should be much, much lower.

I notice that only at 1600x1200 with 4X AA enabled, while I'm dying (things go grey and slo-mo), the FPS drops to nearly 1/3 normal. And it just never recovers even when you come "back to life" and continue the game.

If others could confirm this behavior (again,with the settings above), I'd appreciate it. In the meantime, I guess, it's easy enough to avoid the behavior by choosing different settings. Though, honestly, nothing looks quite like 1600x1200 with 4xAA. :)

Oh, I suppose refresh rate could conceivably have an affect. I'm always running at 85Hz.

Thanks!

H

Hurin
07-19-04, 07:31 PM
Here's my final update. May send this to NVIDIA. Please note that you can avoid this behavior by changing either character or general textures one notch down.

-----------------------------------
Symptom:
In certain areas of certain single-player maps of Q3-engine games (Call of Duty, Jedi Academy, Jedi Outcast), FPS performance is drastically reduced after dying and then continuing to play from last saved game. Performance is optimal until death and starting from last saved game.

BEFORE DEATH
http://www.dor-lomin.com/forum-images/cod/cod-85.jpg

AFTER DEATH
http://www.dor-lomin.com/forum-images/cod/cod-20.jpg


Factors (in Call of Duty):
1. NVIDIA Video Card
2. Screen Resolution of 1600x1200 (85Hz)
3. Anti-Aliasing set to 4X or higher.
4. Game Graphics Options: Character Textures=Extra | General Textures=Extra | Texture Quality=32 Bit.


Replicating the Bug:
1. Make sure all the Factors listed above are true.
2. Run "Call of Duty." Latest Patch updates to v1.4. Though Single-player will still report v1.3.
3. Make sure that "vsynch" ("Synch all frames") is turned off. (can be turned off under Game Options-->Performance)
4. Turn on draw_fps so that you can note the performance change. ( at console: /cg_drawfps 1 )
5. Load this saved game (http://www.dor-lomin.com/forum-images/cod/testsave.svg).
6. After a few seconds, note your FPS while staring at the fire.
7. Turn around, and charge to your right down the railroad track and directly towards the half-track. This should get you good and dead.
8. From the "death quote" screen, click "continue."
9. Note that FPS performance has now decreased by over 50%. This bug will persist until the game is restarted or a "/vid_restart" is initiated at the game console.

Note that the decrease in FPS actually takes place during the slow-motion, fading-out "death sequence" and that the FPS rate never recovers, even after the saved game is loaded.

Here are my system specs:
Fresh Install of Windows XP SP1 w/ all updates.
Abit IC7-MAX3 (BIOS 16, newest)
P4 3.0c
NVIDIA 6800GT (PNY) (Forceware v61.72)
1GB Corsair RAM 3200XL
SoundBlaster Audigy 2 ZS

Thanks,

Hurin

OWA
07-20-04, 12:47 AM
Okay, I'll try to see if I can replicate it. If it only happens at 1600x1200 I've probably never run across the issue yet b/c I just started using that resolution for games recently. With my 5900U, I usually used 1280x1024 or 1024x768.

OWA
07-20-04, 01:12 AM
Yeah, I get that too and I also confirmed that I don't have that issue with the X800 Pro. It's really weird that it only happens while looking at the fire.

Hurin
07-20-04, 02:39 AM
Well, actually, your performance is decreased across the board until you vid_restart. But looking at the fire makes it the most evident. Since, in most other places, your video card has the horsepower to just power through and still give you decent frame rates in less busy/intense environments.

Thanks for confirming that it's not just me! :)

Best Regards,

H

frozenpenguin
07-22-04, 10:39 AM
Hurin - Just out of curiosity are you running dual monitors?

OWA
07-22-04, 10:56 AM
I'm not and I have it.

JimBobb
01-01-07, 07:23 PM
I have the same Problem with Jedi Academy its unplayable slow with 2x8800GTX!

CaptNKILL
01-01-07, 07:28 PM
Wow this is an incredibly old thread.

Are you sure its the same problem 2 years later on totally new hardware?

Have you tried running in single card mode?

JimBobb
01-01-07, 07:34 PM
With 1 Card is the same Jedi Academy running really slow 10-20 fps with 1x8800GTX lol is this a Driver Error?
Here a Screenshot 1600x1200 4xAA/16xAF with 1x8800GTX Card and Forceware 97.44:

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/329/jedien0.jpg

6 FPS *LOL*

CaptNKILL
01-01-07, 07:40 PM
Quake 3 runs fine for me. It stutters a bit in the menus for some reason but I can play the game fine at any resolution with any AA with no problems at all.

I don't think I have any other Q3 engine games though.

JimBobb
01-01-07, 07:44 PM
Quake3 runs fine here no Problems. Jedi Academy runs horrible slow unplayable here. I have found this here a other User with same Problem:
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=21343 :(