Do you support embryo stem cell studies ?

[Mod]

Do you support steem cell, from embryos, studies ?

[jnd3]

Hmmm, no posts on this volatile issue. Odd. I'm probably going to be the lone "no" vote on this. So it goes.

Here's why: taking embryonic stem cells from an embryo destroys said embryo. I'm of the mind that life begins at conception (it's about the clearest dividing line that can be found). That is, of course, arguable.

I am also leery of the ends (genetic benefits from research) justifying the means (destroying embryos for their stem cells). How many embryos must be destroyed in order to produce something fruitful? And if embryos are actual human beings, isn't that akin to mass murder?

Remember, adults have stem cells as well. And it's not necessary to destroy the adult to extract and research them. That's the way to go, as far as I'm concerned (and from what I've read it's shown as much promise as, if not more than, embryonic stem cells).

Commence flames. ;)
Cheers,
JND

[intercede007]

The problem with Multipotent Adult Progenitor Cells (MPACs) is that they are very rare and difficult to isolate in human bone marrow, and they don't culture quite as quickly as do Embryonic Stem Cells. In humans age 2 to 55, 1 for every 1 million bone marrow cells is in existance. The marrow has to be almost completely depleted of every other type of cell before we find the MPAC's.

The field is still too new to rule out either cell as potentially helpful or fruitless in helping diseases like Parkinsons. More reasearch needs to be done with both mediums before anyone can definativly say anything.

I do very much understand the moral debate going on (and I will not get into an abortion debate) and sympathize, but I also understand we owe it to those living in pain now to do everything we can to find a cure. It is a tangled web we weave...... :(

[DaveW]

I do support stem cell research from embryos. I don't consider an embryo to be a human life. I do consider a fetus to be a human life. I also suspect that 99% of people don't even know what a stem cell is.

[The Baron]

I support it.

We honestly don't know if it will pan out--it's much better to research it and find that it is almost worthless in most cases than to be left wondering what could have been.

[vampireuk]

Originally posted by DaveW
I do support stem cell research from embryos. I don't consider an embryo to be a human life. I do consider a fetus to be a human life. I also suspect that 99% of people don't even know what a stem cell is.

I know I know!!

But can you really make another shakeys pizza from them?;) :D

[The Baron]

Originally posted by vampireuk
I know I know!!

But can you really make another shakeys pizza from them?;) :D

ROFLMFAO! :D I love the South Park.

"You're busting my balls here"

[Mod]

Hmm, a 2,5 month old embryo ( a fetus is >3 months, I think) has a cognitive process similar to a primitive fish, and no signs of human behaviour, although it already has some human shape, although we can't tell it a part from the other primates.

So, from the cognitive/conscous process point of view, the perception of killing is similar to the killing of a primitive fish noticed by itself, since the neural system works similarly .

Notice that the embryos generally used in the research of stem cells are 10 days old, when they are so developed as jelly fish. There's just the need to collect primitive cells that gives birth to neurons and blood ( that is to help Chirstopher Reeve or Ronald Reagan ) .

To create hearts or kidneys, you would need collect their primitive versions, directly from the embryos and raise them somehow ( we don't know how), so you would need 2,5 month old embryos. But we could create parts of thoser organs using the above cells and save the person anyway.

So is it really good to exchange the research that could save conscious/ active peoples life (and eventualy cure paraplegics and tetraplegics) to the life a being whose perception of the world is so primitive as a primitive fish or a jelly fish ?

[PsychoSy]

I didn't comment at first because I didn't want to start/finish a debate! :p

This topic can be touchy because...well, your Pro-Lifers believe one thing and the Pro-Choicers believe another. Once you get these two groups started, it's only a matter of time before the fists fly, the fight songs blare, and the name of "God" becomes tossed around like a drunken dwarf at a Sturgis biker rally. ;) :p

Me?

I voted yes.

If this research could help folks like Christopher Reeve walk again, fine by me! If God doesn't like that, then perhaps He should personally come back down here and toss His nickle into the wishing well. Vocalize it! And I not talking some "clandestine" message from a Pope or whatever - I'm talking *poof* "HERE I AM, I'M GOD AND I GOT SOMETHING TO SAY ABOUT THIS!!" Like that...or He could just zot people like He did in the old days! Either way, we'd know FOR SURE what His opinion is.

Some people say human life begins at conception. Fine, but I say human life began billions of years ago from carbon atoms and it's a continuous process - just keeps rolling along. :)

Let it roll with the changes!
To hell with taboo, y'know. :p

[LORD-eX-Bu]

I beleive that if it grows it is living. I am pro-life and hey I see people that have had spinal cord injuries and paralysis and stuff like that overcome their "disability". If they have the will, they can overcome anything, and it only becomes a disability when they let someone else label it as such for them. My friend had a snowboarding accident, he lost use of his legs but through intensive rehabilitation he learned to walk again. Now that won't happen in alot of cases, but still, these people can overcome these injuries in one way or another. You just don't have to take the life out of someone in order to improve someone else's, there are other ways, this is not one of them, just wait for them, be patient and they will reveal themselves. :)

[NickSpolec]

So now we should harvest human babies like crops to eat?

I voted no.

[thcdru2k]

it all depends on how people use this stuff. if its for helping life and people have children, than i'm all for it. but if its playing god and just creating people, than no.

[Starscream]

Originally posted by |TX|-LORD-EX-BU
I beleive that if it grows it is living.

Crystals grow, fire grows. Are either of those alive?

[LORD-eX-Bu]

Originally posted by Starscream
Crystals grow, fire grows. Are either of those alive?

You know what I mean, and I expected this type of response. Maybe I should have said that if it has the capability of life, i.e human life for those that I guess are too ignorant to figure it out on their own, and it grows, it is living.:o

[PsychoSy]

Originally posted by NickSpolec
So now we should harvest human babies like crops to eat?

I voted no.

We tried that allready back in the 60s-70s.
It was called "The Vietnam War Draft". :p

[Smokey]

I didnt vote, basiclly the as reasons for both yes and no.

No because we shouldnt be playing God as such, and growing cells, modifying or any kind of manipulating of any human cells in a science lab! For what purpose as since the dawn of time, we are born, we live then we die, its the way life is.

On the other hand, this type of research can be used to find cures to illnesses, to prolong life, in alot of peoples minds this can be a very good thing.


I cant see what the future holds, if we look to the past, certain discoveries in science, one example. The splitting of the atom, this was seen as a great benifet as it could be used as a great energy source. It was also used to create the biggest weapon of distruction known to mankind.

I think with any new advances in science, no matter how good the benifets, there will always be a very big danger for disater.

[[Corporal Dan]]

The medical benefits of stem-cell research far outweigh the potential moral failings.

YES.

[netviper13]

I wonder how many pro-lifers eat eggs? Same damn thing as eating a human embryo, just a chicken one instead.

I personally am pro-choice as far as the law goes (IE: I support Roe v. Wade) but am against abortion/killing of fetuses in some instances. I think it's not right that people should be able to 'screw like rabbits' and then not be willing to deal with the consequences. But enough about abortion, as that's not really the topic here.

I'm for stem-cell research, as its possible benefits are huge. Yeah yeah, all this 'playing God' crap flies around, but quite frankly I don't buy it. We've been defying God's orders now ever since vaccines and medicines came about. God chose to give you a headache, therefore you're defying God's will by taking asprin to relieve it. See the point I'm getting at here?

And whatever anyone says, it sucks and is not fair that some people can walk and others can't. I realize life isn't fair, but man if we have the chance to make it fair (more fair at least) for those who can't walk, or those with other disabilities, damnit it's our responsibility to find those solutions. Quality of life is just as important as quantity.

[LORD-eX-Bu]

Originally posted by netviper13
I wonder how many pro-lifers eat eggs? Same damn thing as eating a human embryo, just a chicken one instead.

I personally am pro-choice as far as the law goes (IE: I support Roe v. Wade) but am against abortion/killing of fetuses in some instances. I think it's not right that people should be able to 'screw like rabbits' and then not be willing to deal with the consequences. But enough about abortion, as that's not really the topic here.

I'm for stem-cell research, as its possible benefits are huge. Yeah yeah, all this 'playing God' crap flies around, but quite frankly I don't buy it. We've been defying God's orders now ever since vaccines and medicines came about. God chose to give you a headache, therefore you're defying God's will by taking asprin to relieve it. See the point I'm getting at here?

And whatever anyone says, it sucks and is not fair that some people can walk and others can't. I realize life isn't fair, but man if we have the chance to make it fair (more fair at least) for those who can't walk, or those with other disabilities, damnit it's our responsibility to find those solutions. Quality of life is just as important as quantity.

Ever think that God chose to make those vaccines possible? I am pro-life, I have no problem eating animals. If animals would talk, I bet they'd say the same thing about us. Stem cells research, if it ever gets off the ground(hopefully won't) will just prove itself to be useless soon. Watch, but there are other ways. Just wait.

[StealthHawk]

Originally posted by netviper13
I wonder how many pro-lifers eat eggs? Same damn thing as eating a human embryo, just a chicken one instead.

not the same at all. unless you subscribe to the train of thought that all life is equal. quite frankly, i believe that human life is worth more than animal life. also, i think most pro-lifers are Christians, and the basis for their objections is human life is sacred. then of course you have to define "life" and that is really where most of the arugments come into play.

[netviper13]

Originally posted by [eNv]-LORD-eX-Bu
Ever think that God chose to make those vaccines possible? I am pro-life, I have no problem eating animals. If animals would talk, I bet they'd say the same thing about us. Stem cells research, if it ever gets off the ground(hopefully won't) will just prove itself to be useless soon. Watch, but there are other ways. Just wait.

Then it's just as plausible that God chose to make stem-cells useful for scientific research.

[PsychoSy]

Thing is both camps - pro-life and pro-choice - play the role of God anyway, so what's the big fuss? I mean, that whole "sanctity of life" stuff ultimately boils down to individual people (not God) getting to decide all for themselves which forms of life are sacred and which aren't.

If they find a form of life that they don't view as valuble as human life, they have no guilty conscience whatsoever when they choose to kill it. If you don't believe that, then how does this sound...

Building our factory here can release millions of toxic waste into the air and mutate the fish and other animals if they drink from that stream over yonder. If humans eat that poisoned wildlife, they could have health risks, too...........but at least 4,000 will have jobs!!!!"

Their usual excuse "is the needs of many outweigh the needs of the few" so the factory gets built, the wild deer and rabbits get a third eyeball, and we grow hair on our teeth thanks to the carcinogens in our water supply. The "good" news is 4,000 people get jobs! "Dem jobz are important! It's da economeee, stuuuupid!!"

Well, what good is the economy to you when you grow a third leg? What good was the economy to those people in CA who are now D-E-A-D, courtesy of PG&E?!?

"The needs of the many outweigh..." eh?

Fine. Let's go ahead with this stem cell reseach. Why?
Because the needs of the many of can't walk far exceed those who can!! Afterall, who are THEY going to be poisoning or killing any time soon, eh? ;)

I sincerely believe that if medical research can give AT LEAST 1 PERSON the ability to walk again, that 1 person will be so thankful for the "miracle cure" that he or she will be less inclined to kill, poison or harm ANYONE else for the duration of their life - moreso than the billions of sonsabitches that CAN walk - and will be very blessed.

Hey, that 1 person might may even approach God and thank Him for his or her NEW life, thanks to this stem cell medical reseach, and, according to The Bible, it says "there's more joy in Heaven" over that 1 single person that comes to God than all the others that have come to God previously.

Is it posible that God's hand is in stem cell research?

Afterall, it's been said that His hand is in everything.
If so, who the hell are we to stop Him?
We don't know the mind of God.
Perhaps we should stop assuming we do!

[LORD-eX-Bu]

I'll just leave this subject alone. I mean, I don't wanna offend anyone, or try and impose my will and my beleifs on anyone else. But I do know that eventually the right thing will be done, whatever that may be, and no matter what, I will not use anything that comes from this field research to help me no matter what. If I have cancer, I'll tak the radiation, if it doesn't work, then it doesn't work. If I get in a accident or shot somewhere and I am paralyzed, so be it. I'll refrain from using anything that comes about from this research, if there are other technologies that can offer another solution, then its all the better. But I will never bring myself to using any of this. Thats what I beleive and thats how I choose to conduct the way that I live. That being said, I want to leave this alone. I'll let you guys beleive what you beleive, and I expect the same from everyone here. We are all friends, so lets leave it at that.:)

[Mod]

Originally posted by [eNv]-LORD-eX-Bu
If I get in a accident or shot somewhere and I am paralyzed, so be it. We are all friends, so lets leave it at that.

I am your friend, so I being it, I can asure you that many things related to being paralyzed turns out to be boring or exausting.

A good example is that any kind of relationships , in several cases of spinal cord injury, become much,much, much more difficult. It's even much more difficult to make even an aproaching to any woman.

[t6_shadow]

The human race is currently breeding in weakness. If we don't find cures for just about everything we will breed our race into extinction.

So YES!