View Full Version : X800 vs 6800 = Voodoo3 vs TNT2
STORY 1:
3dfx launches the Voodoo3 series with a lesser featureset than the TNT2, but it seems faster at first. 3dfx is especially lacking in that they do not yet support 32bit color. 3dfx tells everyone 32bit color makes no difference, and some reviewers regurgitate this (http://www.3dgw.com/hardware/video/voodoo33000/).
Nvidia's TNT2 is the rival with 32bit color carried over from its predecessor, but many still stick with 3dfx thanks to the previous two voodoo successes (Voodoo1/Voodoo2) over the Riva competiton (128/tnt). 3dfx needs to convince the public that both their card is faster and 32-bit is unnecessary is unnecessary as without the speed advantage odds are their card would not sell as much due to its lesser featureset. Nvidia's drivers improve, and the card sees great performance gains in many games. Gamers start to switch to TNT2. 3dfx employees start to make claims that its card can actually do quality similar to 32-bit with a special 22-bit color filter, and starts to release driversets emphasizing this. Quake 3 is released and looks to perform best on TNT2 cards. More games start to come out with 32-bit color. Voodoo3 doesn't look quite as appealing anymore; TNT2 interest swells.
***
STORY 2:
ATI launches the X800 series with a lesser featureset than the 6800, but it seems faster at first. ATI is especially lacking in that they do not yet support SM3.0 & FP16 blending for HDR. ATI tells everyone SM3.0 makes no difference, and some reviewers regurgitate this.
Nvida's 6800 is the rival with SM3.0 and FP32 carried over from its predecessor, but many still stick with ATI at first thanks to the previous two Radeon successes (9700/9800) over the GeForce competition (5800/5900). ATI needs to convince the public that both their card is faster and SM3.0 is unnecessary as without the speed advantage odds are their card would not sell as much due to its lesser featureset. Nvidia's drivers improve, and the card sees great performance gains in many games. Gamers start to switch to the 6800. ATI employees start to make claims that its card can actually do functions similar to SM3.0 with special SM2.0 functions, and starts to release driversets emphasizing this. Doom3 is released, and looks to perform best on 6800 cards. More games start to come out with SM3.0 support. X800 doesn't look quite as appealing anymore; 6800 interest swells.
ati == repeating 3dfx's voodoo3 history
nvidia == repeating nvidia's tnt2's history
Pretty funny, eh :)
P.S. -- Also, when comparing ATI vs 3dfx adding features to compete with Nvidia, let's not forget voodoo5 & fxt1 versus x800 & 3dc ;)
-=DVS=-
07-22-04, 01:16 AM
Why not compare Voodoo 1 with Riva 128 = 5800FX and 9700Pro :lol2: history does repeat it self......
Why not compare Voodoo 1 with Riva 128 = 5800FX and 9700Pro :lol2: history does repeat it self......
Heh, if you read the above I did :)
ChrisRay
07-22-04, 01:19 AM
I think you are generalizing way too much ruined.
I think you are generalizing way too much ruined.
oh come on its funny :angel:
besides if i didn't generalize it wouldn't fit my stories perfectly! ;)
ChrisRay
07-22-04, 01:25 AM
oh come on its funny :angel:
besides if i didn't generalize it wouldn't fit my stories perfectly! ;)
Well ya, I know where your comen from and I see why your making the comparison. It just could easily be twisted and changed to fit someone elses argument as well ;p
I just dont see it as nearly as simple :)
-=DVS=-
07-22-04, 01:25 AM
Was saying compare on bigger scale not on one generation !!
Voodoo 1 > Nvidia Riva 128
Voodoo 2 > TNT 1
Voodoo 3 < TNT 2 Ultra
Geforce 2 > Radeon 64
Geforce 3 < Radeon 8500
Geforce 4 < Radeon 9700Pro
FX 5800 < Radeon 9700Pro (5800 took very long to come out)
refreshes kinda same
6800 > X800
?? >< ??
Yeh but "winning" trends aside, whats funny is ATI PR is kinda similar to 3dfx PR back in the Voodoo3 day, and the driver course of the 6800 plus the delayed showing of its capabilities is kinda similar to Nvidia back in the TNT2 day - as is general consensus sway for the two cards.
-=DVS=-
07-22-04, 01:29 AM
Yeh but "winning" trends aside, whats funny is ATI PR is kinda similar to 3dfx PR back in the Voodoo3 day, and the driver course of the 6800 plus the delayed showing of its capabilities is kinda similar to Nvidia back in the TNT2 day - as is general consensus sway for the two cards.
Comeon don't talk about PR , people sure got short memory HELLO !! FX 5800 , that was biggest PR BS ever :ORDER:
Well ya, I know where your comen from and I see why your making the comparison. It just could easily be twisted and changed to fit someone elses argument as well ;p
I just dont see it as nearly as simple :)
It's obvious you truly haven't digested this (http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=32191) yet.
Obviously ATI picked up some ex-3dfx employees!
Comeon don't talk about PR , people sure got short memory HELLO !! FX 5800 , that was biggest PR BS ever :ORDER:
Yeh that was PR BS but it wasn't the same as 3dfx's V3 PR BS. 3dfx actually didn't have a feature and claimed they had one that was just as effective, ATI is doing the same today. FX5800 matched the 9700 in featureset, so that analogy doesn't really work. Also, 3dfx lacked 32-bit, ATI lacks FP32. :)
-=DVS=-
07-22-04, 01:54 AM
You compareing 32 bit tnt image quality to old voodoo 3 16/22 bit, witch affected image on global level on pretty mutch every game that came out soon after, 32 bit colors not equal FP 32 precision :bleh:,there are no games to show need for it is there ? other then mistery FarCry 1.3 patch with overkill HDR :bleh:
Not like every game will suddenly use FP32 as minimum aka Unreal 3 , who will be released prolly in few years... so your point is moot :wtf: it was already said by devs SM 2 vs SM3 is speed moustly only few specific effects can't be done.... so all current games and future games till next gen will run in full glory on both cards , sure few of them will have few extra for Nvidia others will have Extra for ATI (mag)
so whats your point Ruined ??
Oh and what do you mean its not same PR its even worse , PR of Nvidia promised free AA , stelar performance , all we got after months of waiting was super hot / loud / card with subpar performance :bleh: 3DFX never made any ridiculous claims only 32bit vs 16bit withc wasn't a big deal in old days , moust people playd in 16 bit anyways on TNTs for speed :rolleyes: i recall ATIs crappy Rage 128Pro series ran 32bit pretty well.
Uh Oh!! It's another conspiracy theory :lol2:
I say this is either going to end up like PS 1.1 vs. PS 1.0 or PS 1.4 vs. 1.1. I'm leaning towards PS 1.1 vs. PS 1.0. Personally I prefer FP16 over FP24 and FP32. FP32 will probably make a big difference in Unreal 3 compared to FP24 since Tim Sweeney will be using some very complex algorithms. FP24 doesn't show any improvement over FP16 so far but I think STALKER/HL2 may change that. IMO, HDR is nVIDIA greatest advantage. I'm sure there's a algorithm to be discovered that will be very useful with branching.
I don't like the argument "Company X is doing the same thing 3DFX did," BTW. I've seen it used many times on both nVIDIA and ATI.
meh... I think ATI is in far better position than 3dfx was then. Besides, comparison is really apples to oranges, since 32bit color support in tnt2 was relatively fast, while sm3.0 seems to be an overkill in the current generation of hardware. None of 6800 will be able to handle heavy sm3 usage without a huge performance hit, while 32 color was not so hard on tnt2.... Just my 2 cents.
Some of you fail to realize that, to this day, ATi is in a much better position than NVidia. They've secured contracts with all the major PC manufacturers, and they've much better products in the high volume mainstream market. The GeForce 6800 is a fine piece of hardware and I consider it superior to current ATi offerings but it's not enough.
I work in a rather big shop and I've seen the turn of events. The only NVidia card people still ask me for is the 5900XT; as for the rest, we've litterally dozens of Fx5200/5600 nobody wants that we throw in the low end PCs we sell. The 9600 in all its flavours is the best seller and, with the 9800 reaching the same price range of the 5900XT, people are willing to spend a few bucks more to purchase ATi's card. Brand recognition surely has helped NVidia in the past year and saved her from complete disaster with the FX line, but even common people have now accepted ATi as a worth competitor.
I think NVidia needs a good midrange offering as fast as possible to win back OEM contracts and the public opinion confidence.
Carbon Unit
07-22-04, 03:37 AM
I think the 9700p was produced to compete more with the GeForce 4 series, it was just there luck that the 5800 flunked and gave them more time to stay ahead with the 9800, now with the GeForce 6 the old game has been basically reset
-=DVS=-
07-22-04, 03:43 AM
I think the 9700p was produced to compete more with the GeForce 4 series, it was just there luck that the 5800 flunked and gave them more time to stay ahead with the 9800, now with the GeForce 6 the old game has been basically reset
You mixing stuff , GF4 was DX8 up to PS 1.3 card it was comepeting with Radeon 8500Pro DX8 with 1.4 !
Now Radeon 9700Pro was next gen owning all GF4's , it had 256bit bus , full DX9 support and fast AA /AF , Nvidia was suppose to bring 5800 but was awefully late only later refreshes 5900+ were damage control :bleh:
Some of you fail to realize that, to this day, ATi is in a much better position than NVidia. They've secured contracts with all the major PC manufacturers, and they've much better products in the high volume mainstream market. The GeForce 6800 is a fine piece of hardware and I consider it superior to current ATi offerings but it's not enough.
I work in a rather big shop and I've seen the turn of events. The only NVidia card people still ask me for is the 5900XT; as for the rest, we've litterally dozens of Fx5200/5600 nobody wants that we throw in the low end PCs we sell. The 9600 in all its flavours is the best seller and, with the 9800 reaching the same price range of the 5900XT, people are willing to spend a few bucks more to purchase ATi's card. Brand recognition surely has helped NVidia in the past year and saved her from complete disaster with the FX line, but even common people have now accepted ATi as a worth competitor.
I think NVidia needs a good midrange offering as fast as possible to win back OEM contracts and the public opinion confidence.
I think nVIDIA is in the position to switch positions with ATi. nVIDIA has those awesome nForce boards and now AMD has become more popular than Intel.
evilchris
07-22-04, 03:47 AM
None of 6800 will be able to handle heavy sm3 usage without a huge performance hit, .
Link proving this please? Other than BS ATI propaganda?
evilchris
07-22-04, 03:48 AM
I think nVIDIA is in the position to switch positions with ATi. nVIDIA has those awesome nForce boards and now AMD has become more popular than Intel.
AMD is not more popular than Intel. I don't know where the hell you got that idea. It's not even close.
-=DVS=-
07-22-04, 03:54 AM
I liked Intel in old days from Original Pentium up to P3 , they all owned in games :drooling: right now Athlon 64 is :nanahump: my best friend :tongue2: , i even kinda dislike Intel right now :bleh:
My video card friends were 3dfx,Nvidia,Ati , they all good :D all the others were none existing.
AMD is not more popular than Intel. I don't know where the hell you got that idea. It's not even close.
AMD is beating Intel in the desktop market.
http://www.tekrati.com/T2/Analyst_Research/ResearchAnnouncementsDetails.asp?Newsid=2666
I think I drove this discussion off-topic. :(
Anyways I'm also interested in nVIDIA's 6600, 6300.
evilchris
07-22-04, 03:58 AM
AMD is beating Intel in the desktop market.
http://www.tekrati.com/T2/Analyst_Research/ResearchAnnouncementsDetails.asp?Newsid=2666
I think I drove this discussion off-topic. :(
Anyways I'm also interested in nVIDIA's 6600, 6300.
AMD market momentum hit a new milestone last, when it surpassed Intel channel sales volumes for one week in April, according to competitive intelligence experts at ARS, a subsidiary of Current Analysis.
One week, wow! Here is the real truth:
http://asia.cnet.com/sg/0,39002190,39177952,00.htm
In the fourth quarter, Intel had 83.7 percent of the market, while AMD had 14.7 percent. The remaining 1.5 percent of the market belongs to Via Technologies and Transmeta.
:ORDER:
I wish AMD could reach the popularity of Intel! :(
I usually try to champion the cause of AMD but many customers don't want to listen to any reason. Nowadays, a Prescott 2.8GHz with a FX5200/Ati9200 is a real best seller. (and people pretend to play at insane settings, too :bleh: )
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