PDA

View Full Version : gf6800 ultra vs x800 xt the hidden differences


Pages : [1] 2 3

drbb
07-26-04, 07:17 AM
i was a member at another forum ( rage 3d ) but that one has recently changed to a club of kids and ati fanboys so i moved here, here's a thread that i have posted there and got nothing but kids responces i hope i get better response here:
hi there... let's look to this in a fair way:
- x800 xt pe has a great performance charts in most benchmarks
- gf 6800 ultra also has agreat performance that's some times more and some times less than that of the x800 xt .
but what about 1 or 1.5 years from now, i think it's obvious to every one who really wants to see the truth that the gf6800 u will be the better card then , as it has the most future-resistant features here like ps3 for example.
- the only advantage i can see for the x800 xt is it's higher performance with 4xaa and 8xaf in most reviews but here i think that the largest part of this advantage comes from the af performance not the aa one and that's due to the fact that most reviewers disable the af optimisation of the 6800 forgetting that all x800s do also have that same amount of optimisation withut the ability to switch it off...
which makes for an unfair comparision.
- one of the main features of the gf 6800 u that's sadly always overlooked is ultra shadow 2 , whennever i played kotor and saw the option for soft shadows disabled due to my radeon 9700 pro i wished that i was playing on a card that supports this feature but i ignored this due to ati's superior performance back then...
but now with the performance nearly identical between the two vendors and giving the obvious problems all radeons including x800s have with all the games containing complex shadows ( splintercell pt - thief 3 ... ) i'd go and get a 6800 ultra and live happy with it.
i realy wished that ATI had worked harder on the r420 and made it a truley next generation chip but they didn't..

Anima86
07-26-04, 07:42 AM
that's true ati still sticks with a board which is almost identical to the r300, you may say its just pumped up. on the other hand Nvidia has created a new board, but talking about ps3 and other future features, when they are used in 1 - 1.5 years in practicaly every game, i think i've already bought a new 3dcard by then, it just goes to fast,

The fact that ati in some eyes lost this battle isn't that bad when you look at it in a perspective to the future because they will come up with a new card which will have all the features nvidia has now and maybe even more.

Ofcourse not everyone buys a new board when ati and nvidia come up with new ones, but what i want to say is that when those nvidia 6800 serie features e.g Ps3, are used in most games there are already new cards!

ATM you don't need a Ps3 card because there aren't many games which support it, so ATI might be your better chooise performance wise. But The ati cards drivers are almost as far tweaked as possible, on the other hand Nvidia has a new board so the new drivers will take the performance to an higher level! maybe 10-25% performance increase? who knows, it happened before with the first detenators.

All in all it can be said that there isn't a best card for everyone, but it is diffrent per person, everyone has his own look on the card and only you know what you want to do with it, do i need ps3? do i want to play at 1600x1200 8xAF 16xAA will i buy a new crad in a few months?

MingtonHall
07-26-04, 08:06 AM
Buying a card out of loyalty is non-Darwinian.

Let the best fitted survive.

Wait. It will fit in my case will it? <gets ruler out>

Ming :)

Lezmaka
07-26-04, 08:27 AM
( rage 3d ) but that one has recently changed to a club of kids and ati fanboys

Only recently? It's been like that for years. You say anything bad about ATI or anything good about nvidia, they're on you like a pack of wild dogs.

Arioch
07-26-04, 08:38 AM
Rage3D has a large number of users and unfortunately the "bad apples" are the ones that people always remember. There are a fair number of them there but I would not go so far as lumping everyone into that group.

MUYA
07-26-04, 08:43 AM
Let's discuss the two competing cards rather than Rage3d.

thanks

radio1_mike
07-26-04, 11:28 AM
I know. But it is tangental to the thread.

I have been a member of rage3d.com since 2000, and since X800 was announced/released the level of vitriol has not stopped. You can not have a simple discussiion of the merits of both cards w/o ending up in a flame war.

That is not the case here at nvnews.net.

I was planning on purchasing an X800XT, until I saw some reviews of the 6800 Ultra. I also thought about the new feature set available in NVidia's new offering; and the facts that: 1) no compatability issues with hardware and software, 2) IQ differences have been minimized and 3) comparable performance.

kahloq
07-26-04, 11:33 AM
Welcome to Nvnews Drbb and radio1_mike

Kombatant
07-26-04, 02:04 PM
If not agreeing with your observations = kids responses, then I guess you're right :p

saturnotaku
07-26-04, 03:09 PM
If not agreeing with your observations = kids responses, then I guess you're right :p

There's a big difference between simply not agreeing with someone's observations and offering professional responses and not agreeing with someone's observations and being a complete ***wipe about it.

Kombatant
07-26-04, 03:41 PM
I know... have you seen the said thread and think that?

surfhurleydude
07-26-04, 03:48 PM
Kombatant, your forum has turned into a pile of **** ever since the R420 came out with fanboys crying and whining all over the place because the NV40 isn't the same piece of crap the NV30 was. And yes, your forum is just a board full of Hellbinders. There's a reason a lot of the people that used to post there don't any more.

Vengeance
07-26-04, 03:58 PM
Kombatant, your forum has turned into a pile of **** ever since the R420 came out with fanboys crying and whining all over the place because the NV40 isn't the same piece of crap the NV30 was. And yes, your forum is just a board full of Hellbinders. There's a reason a lot of the people that used to post there don't any more.

wow, this should be closed! :lame:

Kombatant
07-26-04, 04:00 PM
I am sorry you feel that way. And I probably shouldn't have posted at all since it has nothing to do with the thread topic.

You may carry on :)

saturnotaku
07-26-04, 04:21 PM
wow, this should be closed! :lame:

I hope the irony of this statement isn't lost on anyone.

evilchris
07-26-04, 04:27 PM
If not agreeing with your observations = kids responses, then I guess you're right :p

YOU BETTER GET SOME POPCORN READY LOLZ OMGZ !$#!#

evilchris
07-26-04, 04:28 PM
wow, this should be closed! :lame:

You aren't a mod here. We like to let our mods decide when to close threads. You can apply with MikeC.

evilchris
07-26-04, 04:29 PM
Kombatant, your forum has turned into a pile of **** ever since the R420 came out with fanboys crying and whining all over the place because the NV40 isn't the same piece of crap the NV30 was. And yes, your forum is just a board full of Hellbinders. There's a reason a lot of the people that used to post there don't any more.


rofl, /agree x1000

Clay
07-26-04, 04:32 PM
Yeah, we're not closing threads because someone has an opinion about another website. Having said that...let's get back on topic guys. :afro:

ChrisRay
07-26-04, 04:37 PM
However, Theres no reason to invoke flames/drama about another website here. Keep it to a minimum people.

evilchris
07-26-04, 04:37 PM
I think ATI's only advantages are increased fillrate on the PE and better AF cheatimizations on AF. NVIDIA has generally faster, and equal quality AA. It's too bad NV couldn't get more clockspeed out of NV40. I say it time and again: can you imagine a 520MHz NV40? The XT PE would die an ugly death fast.

UDawg
07-26-04, 04:44 PM
Just to follow up with your point Clay, we do not mind links to other forums if it is helpful to the topic of the thread or if it is a story of interest. What we do not like or want are links to other forums to spread gossip and spur on animosity between forums. This is not some thing we here at NvNews want to be a part of.

We are a community of sort and not a clan. There isn't a NvNews Clan a Rage3D clan and so on that competes with each other in the FUD department. There are how even certain members of these and our forum that do this.

If you do not like a particular forum then why would you talk about them so much? If you do not like the way they do business then register there and affect change with your voice and contribution to that particular site.

I know many here think we mods are just engaging censorship. This is not the case. You do not have the right to spread FUD here at NvNews, plain and simple.

Now back on topic.

vandersl
07-26-04, 05:16 PM
Drbb, your post is a perfect example of the underlying cause of fanboyism (is that really a word?).

Many people can't be objective about computer hardware. They want what they have to be the 'best', and solicit input that confirms that impression.

Your thread at R3D and this thread here had no chance of resulting in an unbiased discussion. You listed several points that serve to make the NV40 appear like a better purchase, with no counter points in support of R420. Then in your sig, you have '6800u on the way'. You posted this on an ATI site.

This, in most forums, is considered trolling.

Given that, you actually got a fairly civil response. Most posted legitimate counter-points. Few, if any, flamed you directly.

Given that, here would be some of my counters to your original post. Note that you may not agree with these points. They are not there to convince you that you made the wrong decision. They are simply legitimate arguments that some may agree with.
1) 1.5 years from now, SM3.0 vs SM2.0b will be akin to PS1.4 vs PS1.1. There may be some benefit to it, but software supporting the higher revision will also support the lower. Neither card will be cutting edge. Both will play all games, and neither will do it as well as what is available at the time.
2) Separate from the 4XAA/8XAF modes, the X800 has a 6X AA mode which is completely useable in most games (and not temp aa). The NV40 can not use any AA mode higher than 4X with anything resembling reasonable performance.
3) R420 cards are smaller and draws less power. Will be a huge concern to those (like me) looking at the socket 939 SFF PC's coming out.
4) ATI has earned my respect (and treated customers with respect) more over the last couple years than NVidia. While not a big enough factor to override true product advantages, this weighs heavily when the products are comparable.
5) I'm Canadian, 'nuff said :)

OWA
07-26-04, 05:41 PM
The NV40 can not use any AA mode higher than 4X with anything resembling reasonable performance.
Depends on the game. I was able to run the Juiced demo on my GT at 16x12 with 8xSAA/8xAF and average over 30fps.

2004-07-18 22:41:05 - Juiced (1600x1200 8xSAA/8xAF)
Frames: 3481 - Time: 91738ms - Avg: 37.945 - Min: 29 - Max: 45

ChrisRay
07-26-04, 05:44 PM
Drbb, your post is a perfect example of the underlying cause of fanboyism (is that really a word?).

Many people can't be objective about computer hardware. They want what they have to be the 'best', and solicit input that confirms that impression.

Your thread at R3D and this thread here had no chance of resulting in an unbiased discussion. You listed several points that serve to make the NV40 appear like a better purchase, with no counter points in support of R420. Then in your sig, you have '6800u on the way'. You posted this on an ATI site.

This, in most forums, is considered trolling.

Given that, you actually got a fairly civil response. Most posted legitimate counter-points. Few, if any, flamed you directly.

Given that, here would be some of my counters to your original post. Note that you may not agree with these points. They are not there to convince you that you made the wrong decision. They are simply legitimate arguments that some may agree with.
1) 1.5 years from now, SM3.0 vs SM2.0b will be akin to PS1.4 vs PS1.1. There may be some benefit to it, but software supporting the higher revision will also support the lower. Neither card will be cutting edge. Both will play all games, and neither will do it as well as what is available at the time.
2) Separate from the 4XAA/8XAF modes, the X800 has a 6X AA mode which is completely useable in most games (and not temp aa). The NV40 can not use any AA mode higher than 4X with anything resembling reasonable performance.
3) R420 cards are smaller and draws less power. Will be a huge concern to those (like me) looking at the socket 939 SFF PC's coming out.
4) ATI has earned my respect (and treated customers with respect) more over the last couple years than NVidia. While not a big enough factor to override true product advantages, this weighs heavily when the products are comparable.
5) I'm Canadian, 'nuff said :)



Though I will hit your second point. 8xS is extremely usable IMO. I have had no problem using it in most games. Newer games like Far cry and heavy games like doom 3 it may not be very usable. But Even UT2004 I have found it playable @ 1024x768 for the most part.

Its not like the old 8xS at all.