Divest From Israel Campaign!!

[1stFlight]

It's time to get the Middle East Peace Movement going, with more than adepquate pressure on the Palestinians to make reforms, there's been none on Israel to change any one their policies.
Add to it, when an Army can drop bombs on large populated building, destroy orange crops, water lines, and fire tank rounds into crowds (yup, sabot or fletchette types, for when you just don't care who you hit), and fire indiscriminately into buildings (cause hey, they're ALL terrorists right? Or are they?). Then call it, actions againt terrorism, they insult our intelligence. (I've never met a terrorist orange)
Israel is creating more of its own problems rather than come to the peace table and actually talk. They blame the Palestinian security force for not preventing terrorism, while neglecting to mention, Israeli forces have blown up ALL of their buildings, and attacked them at every turn. Tough job, arrest your own people while the people you're supposedly helping are trying to kill you. Wonder if they have recruitment problems?
That's why I ask all of you to support the divest from Israel movement as I have. It doesn't make you the terrible anti-semite they like to label people with it means that you think what they're doing is wrong, plain and simple. Is suicide bombing wrong (hell is boming in general wrong?), better believe it, is firing tank rounds into crowds of people wrong, or missles or 1-ton bombs, I think so. I think they've lost the moral high ground badly one this one and it's time they were forced to get it back. Want the facts one what I've said, Googles got a great non-baises news engine, get all the news not just the American filtered stuff.

http://www.ucdivest.org/ucindex.php

[ibGoodEnuf]

Oh no! The people of Israel are going to have to do without your money? How will they ever continue to exist? I will tell you how: By determining their own fate. They have bowed to world pressure on several occasions where they shouldn't have, but for the most part Israel does what is needed to protect herself. If a Palestinian performs a suicide mission with the complete blessing of his/her own government and his family receives compensation for it then that family's house is rightfully bulldozed.

I agree that peace needs to be achieved here, but until Hamas and the other fanatics are brought down the Israeli actions will persist. Personally, I hope every Islamic militant is killed. Islam is such a beautiful religion, but killing in the name of Islam is counter to it's teachings. The real problem is that Palestinians do not want peace, they want Israel. That is not, nor will it ever be an option. Occupied land you say? Bollocks! When a nation attacks yours and yours is victorious the land you take is yours. Now the Israelis gave back Sanai, they offered 98% of all lands taken back to the Palestinians in '98 and were told no. OK, you get what they wish to give you in this case.

You can keep your money, maybe even donate some to Hamas if you don't like Israel's methods. My guess is that you are not a republican.

[LORD-eX-Bu]

Originally posted by ibGoodEnuf
Oh no! The people of Israel are going to have to do without your money? How will they ever continue to exist? I will tell you how: By determining their own fate. They have bowed to world pressure on several occasions where they shouldn't have, but for the most part Israel does what is needed to protect herself. If a Palestinian performs a suicide mission with the complete blessing of his/her own government and his family receives compensation for it then that family's house is rightfully bulldozed.

I agree that peace needs to be achieved here, but until Hamas and the other fanatics are brought down the Israeli actions will persist. Personally, I hope every Islamic militant is killed. Islam is such a beautiful religion, but killing in the name of Islam is counter to it's teachings. The real problem is that Palestinians do not want peace, they want Israel. That is not, nor will it ever be an option. Occupied land you say? Bollocks! When a nation attacks yours and yours is victorious the land you take is yours. Now the Israelis gave back Sanai, they offered 98% of all lands taken back to the Palestinians in '98 and were told no. OK, you get what they wish to give you in this case.

You can keep your money, maybe even donate some to Hamas if you don't like Israel's methods. My guess is that you are not a republican.

You couldn't have said it better.;)

[The Baron]

If you're naive enough to believe the Palestinians were oppressed by the Big Bad Israelis, I should dopeslap you.

If you're naive enough to believe that the Israelis did everything they could, but those evil terrorist bastards the Palestinians don't want it unless every Jew on the face of the planet dies, I should dopeslap you too.

[1stFlight]

Originally posted by ibGoodEnuf
Oh no! The people of Israel are going to have to do without your money?

My orginal point exactly, My Money My Conscience.

How will they ever continue to exist?

I never said destroy the place... just let them know not everyone agrees with their methods.

I will tell you how: By determining their own fate. They have bowed to world pressure on several occasions where they shouldn't have,

Name one

but for the most part Israel does what is needed to protect herself.

And that includes firing from a tank at rock throwing kidss?

If a Palestinian performs a suicide mission with the complete blessing of his/her own government and his family receives compensation for it then that family's house is rightfully bulldozed.

Really, I suppose if you're sibling commited a crime then you should be sued for it. Doesn't happen, welcome to the real world. It's wrong here, wrong there too. And only works to sow more hatred.

I agree that peace needs to be achieved here, but until Hamas and the other fanatics are brought down the Israeli actions will persist.

Define fanatic, people that fight for their homes and land? Israeli's dont' want peace, as proof has Sharon submitted ANY kind of peace plan. He hasn't, he isn't going too, his peace plan is genocide.

Personally, I hope every Islamic militant is killed.

Militant and Terrorist are two different things, we have "militant" Americans here, plenty of them, very few to none are Terrorists, watch how the media labels things, and use your own head.

Islam is such a beautiful religion, but killing in the name of Islam is counter to it's teachings. The real problem is that Palestinians do not want peace, they want Israel.

Israel wants ALL of what used to be Palestine, remember Israel is only 50 years old, something used to be there before that and it wasn't Jordan.

That is not, nor will it ever be an option. Occupied land you say? Bollocks! When a nation attacks yours and yours is victorious the land you take is yours.

Actually Israel started the 6-Day war, by their own admission, they destroyed Egypts Air Force while it was still on the ground, doesn't sound like they were in much of an attack posture does it?

Now the Israelis gave back Sanai, they offered 98% of all lands taken back to the Palestinians in '98 and were told no. OK, you get what they wish to give you in this case.

There was more to it than that, look up a Slate article called, " Was Arafat Really the Problem" . It boils down to, if I steal your wallet but agree to give you back 98% of it, does that make me a nice guy?

You can keep your money, maybe even donate some to Hamas if you don't like Israel's methods. My guess is that you are not a republican.

Good guess, but I've voted for Rupiblicans in the past, and as for keeping my money, I plan too. It's the least I can do to help another people and as for fund Hamas, at no point did I say I supported terrorism, civil or state-sponsored( The Israeli version).




P.S. There's always two sides to every
story, American media is great at only giving one side of it. Which explains to horrid bias here, but not in Europe.

[LORD-eX-Bu]

Not this old argument again...........:o

[The Baron]

...and Europe is horribly biased towards the Palestinians.

[1stFlight]

Strange on that bias, I just mind that 2 Billion on American tax money ( I think we need it more here) we send to Israel Add on that on Sharons latest visit, he asking for 10 billion more, while setting aside President Bush's Middle East Peace plan...Divesting doesn't seem like a bad idea.

[The Baron]

Why don't you back that up?

[1stFlight]

For the 2Billion+ in aid
http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/010201/0101015.html
http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/US-Israel/U.S._Assistance_to_Israel1.html

Or from the horse's mouth (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/A/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1035622542736)

More...while questioning a Senator (http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=5834984&BRD=1425&PAG=461&dept_id=154733&rfi=6)

For the additional 10 billion

Sharon, for his part, stormed the Oval Office, where he persuaded George W. Bush to publicly praise Israel's economy and, reportedly, consider $10 billion-worth of loan guarantees (meaning the money will come to Israel from American banks rather than taxpayers, but at preferred interest rates whose return the US Treasury will guarantee). (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/A/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1035430654540)

I especially like the "stormed" part... nice to know we elected a jellyfish instead of a leader.

Enough proof, like the sources?

[intercede007]

Well gee..Isreal is only our Ally. So I guess we should send 2 billion dollars to our Allies enemy? Right....:rolleyes:

[The Baron]

(meaning the money will come to Israel from American banks rather than taxpayers, but at preferred interest rates whose return the US Treasury will guarantee)

Well, I don't have any problem with the 10 billion dollars considering just about every nation uses US banks in some form.

As for 2 billion... yeah, we could use it and buy another stealth bomber :rolleyes:

[Kruno]

Could you imagine Ariel Sharon and Arafat seen sleeping together? :eek:

[LORD-eX-Bu]

Originally posted by K.I.L.E.R
Could you imagine Ariel Sharon and Arafat seen sleeping together? :eek:

Nah, cuz Arafat married that Jewish lady a while back.;)

[Kruno]

Did she straighten him out? (no pun intended) :)
I thought I was going to be a lucky man/female thing. :D

[LORD-eX-Bu]

ROFL! I don't know what happened to her.

[netviper13]

Originally posted by K.I.L.E.R
Could you imagine Ariel Sharon and Arafat seen sleeping together? :eek:

Perhaps you should send that idea in to the writers for South Park; after all they did do Satan and Saddam Hussein already :D

[sbp]

There won't be any peace there until the Palestinian hardliners {Hamas, Islamic Jihad and others} are controlled. Likely that would mean a Palestinian civil war.

Arafats time is passed. Its time for some new leadership who are really interested in peace and helping the Palestinian people out. Where is their Gandhi?

Israel has shown it can live side by side with the Arabs and is interested in peace even putting its own security at risk. For example it gave back the Sinai Peninsula to Egypt. Unfortunately the same can't be said of some of the Arabs. They would love nothing more to destroy Israel and kill every Jew.

Until the Palestinians understand the word compromise there won't be peace there.

The Palestinians have shown there are a resourceful people. Darn shame that energy isn't put to positive use.

Now, how about a divest from Palestine Campaign?

[1stFlight]

Arafats time is passed. Its time for some new leadership who are really interested in peace and helping the Palestinian people out. Where is their Gandhi?

You've bought Israels party line hook line and sinker, their "leadership" is strickly thier business, and with Israel current action an election that Arafat didn't win, would be one that Hamas would. Israel's done a great job at killing off the moderate Palestinians if nothing else.

Israel has shown it can live side by side with the Arabs and is interested in peace even putting its own security at risk. For example it gave back the Sinai Peninsula to Egypt. Unfortunately the same can't be said of some of the Arabs. They would love nothing more to destroy Israel and kill every Jew.

Really, when have they shown that? So far, if you're an Israeli Arab, you can't vote, have no hope of justice if wronged by an Israeli Jew(their courts are notoriously soft on Jewish people), and while preaching peace, they continue to expand their settlements in the occupied territories, (which just means, they're moving the orginal inhabitants out, by force). No Israel has made a mockary of the peace process.

Until the Palestinians understand the word compromise there won't be peace there.

Compromise is a tough word when to understand when someone is moving you out of your house and off your land, while insulting you on the way. Remeber, just what was there before Isreal, take a look at www.un.org

The Palestinians have shown there are a resourceful people. Darn shame that energy isn't put to positive use.

Hard to be positive when the country that owns your land now, is trying to wipe you out of existance. Or in the very least do to them what we did to the Indians.

Now, how about a divest from Palestine Campaign? [/B][/QUOTE]

First we would have to invest in Palestine. Why is it no one wants to see that Israel's crimes. Is it so much better to be blind? Or is this Americas way of throwing the carpet over our wrongs to the Indians(remember them?). Must be something to go from a population over several million to several hundred thousand, having ones own country to living on reservations. Too many similiarities. Investing in Israel is just as bad if not worse than investing in old South Africa.


http://www.ucdivest.org/ucindex.php

[sbp]

Originally posted by 1stFlight
You've bought Israels party line hook line and sinker, their "leadership" is strickly thier business, and with Israel current action an election that Arafat didn't win, would be one that Hamas would. Israel's done a great job at killing off the moderate Palestinians if nothing else.Sorry to disappoint you, but wanting the Palestinians to have good leadership is not buying Israels party line hook line and sinker.

Of course if it not our concern what their leadership is, neither is it our business what goes on there.

Really, when have they shown that? So far, if you're an Israeli Arab, you can't vote, have no hope of justice if wronged by an Israeli Jew(their courts are notoriously soft on Jewish people), and while preaching peace, they continue to expand their settlements in the occupied territories, (which just means, they're moving the orginal inhabitants out, by force). No Israel has made a mockary of the peace process.There was an example provided. And there was an offer Arafat walked away from.

At least some Israelis till hold out hope for the peace process. The Palestinians on the other hand believe in the blown into pieces process. http://sbp777.homestead.com/files/ugone2far.gif Some bargaining position that is. Should that be rewarded and bargained with?

Compromise is a tough word when to understand when someone is moving you out of your house and off your land, while insulting you on the way. Remeber, just what was there before Isreal, take a look at www.un.org98% is better than nothing which the Palestinians will eventually end up with if this keeps up. :/

The Palestinians would be well on their way to having their own country by now. Was the offer perfect? No. A start? Yes.

Hard to be positive when the country that owns your land now, is trying to wipe you out of existance. Or in the very least do to them what we did to the Indians.Some wiping out of existance-the Palestinian population is increasing rapidly.

Oh its not like the Palestinians have been used by their Arab brothers for agenda's and also treated like crap at times by them. H3ll, they didn't even want a Palestine to exist and wanted the land for themselves. But apparently all the blame for this sad situation goes on Israel.

First we would have to invest in Palestine. Why is it no one wants to see that Israel's crimes. Is it so much better to be blind? Or is this Americas way of throwing the carpet over our wrongs to the Indians(remember them?). Must be something to go from a population over several million to several hundred thousand, having ones own country to living on reservations. Too many similiarities. Investing in Israel is just as bad if not worse than investing in old South Africa. http://www.ucdivest.org/ucindex.php Ahh but there are countries and others out there supporting the Palestinians. Please ask them about a divest from Palestine Campaign.

[1stFlight]

Of course if it not our concern what their leadership is, neither is it our business what goes on there.


I can agree to that, unfortunately, America has bought themselves into a hole. Now we have to be interested, or lose our moral high ground.

There was an example provided. And there was an offer Arafat walked away from.

Sad but true, unfortunately the offeree was assanated - Israel is not interested in peace.

At least some Israelis till hold out hope for the peace process.

Like Rabin's assassin, who was Israeli.

The Palestinians on the other hand believe in the blown into pieces process.

I disagree, many are tired of the violience however Israel's actions make blowing oneself up a good self-defense agruement. Die like a wolf, or die like a lamb by the Israeli army. Tough choice. Again read some American history, American Indian chapter not all of them went like lambs, but even the ones who did, died.

Some bargaining position that is. Should that be rewarded and bargained with?

Ask the many Palestinians who're dead, imprisoned, or maimed that have had nothing to do with it. Or ask the ones who the Israel settlers have moved out of their homes by force. Should that be condoned? Why should Israel be allowed to expand over the people that already live there? Should your neighor be allowed to move into your house by sticking a gun in your nose and yelling, "Move!"?

98% is better than nothing which the Palestinians will eventually end up with if this keeps up. :/

Exactly, Israel wants it all and at least you admit it.

Some wiping out of existance-the Palestinian population is increasing rapidly.

You must have missed the 1,600+ Palestinian dead to 600+ Israeli dead or the 8,000 Ariel Sharon personally murdered in Lebanon.
If he could get away with it, he would kill them all, he just has do to it slowly.

So again what reason do we have to invest in Israel what do they offer us but a chance to sink to new moral lows?

Ahh but there are countries and others out there supporting the Palestinians. Please ask them about a divest from Palestine Campaign.

No one invests in Palestine the way we do in Israel, no one. Hence, why they don't have an army to field against the Israeli force overrunning them every month. All the more reason to divest from Israel, level the playing field and make Israel sit at the peace table honestly. By any chance are you Jewish?

[styles-T]

Originally posted by intercede007
Well gee..Isreal is only our Ally. So I guess we should send 2 billion dollars to our Allies enemy? Right....:rolleyes:

rofl...:rolleyes:

[1stFlight]

Israel is far from our only ally over there, check your facts we've got a couple of allies over there that are far more useful than Israel could ever be.

[LORD-eX-Bu]

Originally posted by 1stFlight
Israel is far from our only ally over there, check your facts we've got a couple of allies over there that are far more useful than Israel could ever be.

LOL, and you are the expert on this how?:rolleyes:

[StealthHawk]

Originally posted by 1stFlight
Israel is far from our only ally over there, check your facts we've got a couple of allies over there that are far more useful than Israel could ever be.

maybe because without US support and weapons Israel would be annihilated?