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_leech_
10-28-02, 09:55 AM
Hey all, say hi to the newest NVnews convert from Rage3D :D

Anyways, i'm looking at a videocard upgrade for the holiday and i was hoping you guys could give me some insight on the Ti4200, specifically the MSI 128MB Ti4200-VTP. I was heavily considering the ATI 8500/9000 Pro but the 4200 just has more usable features (AA) and a solid reputation. I was wondering if anything in my current system would limit the card in any way. What kind of vast improvements should i expect considering i'm running on a Radeon LE right now? Just anything that would be helpful in clearing my mind of any possible problems (or bottlenecks) would be great.

Oh yea, if anyone out there knows of a 4200 review that's run on my kind of system (more or less) it would be really helpful as well.

Thanks a lot guys,
The "Nvidiot" who never owned a Nvidia card :D

saturnotaku
10-28-02, 10:17 AM
First of all, welcome to the boards. :D

Next, your CPU and memory are definitely going to be a limiting factor in this upgrade. Not that 1.1 GHz is bad by any stretch, but that CPU won't be much help to any new card, be it from ATI or NVIDIA.

But your choice of an MSI Ti4200 is an excellent one. I haven't heard one bad thing about this card, from review sites and other members of this board.

You can pick the MSI card up for dirt cheap now and use any leftover money for a new motherboard, Athlon XP and some DDR memory. Put those in with the Ti4200 and you'll have an excellent budget gaming machine. :)

_leech_
10-28-02, 10:23 AM
Originally posted by saturnotaku
First of all, welcome to the boards. :D

Next, your CPU and memory are definitely going to be a limiting factor in this upgrade. Not that 1.1 GHz is bad by any stretch, but that CPU won't be much help to any new card, from ATI or NVIDIA. When you say you have a Radeon LE, is that an 8500LE?

But your choice of an MSI Ti4200 is an excellent one. I haven't heard one bad thing about this card, from review sites and other members of this board.

You can pick the MSI card up for dirt cheap now and use any leftover money for a new motherboard, Athlon XP and some DDR memory. Put those in with the Ti4200 and you'll have an excellent budget gaming machine. :)

Actually i meant a regular old Radeon LE 32MB (i think it's called the 7200 now), so i think it's time is about up :D

I agree, the MSI 128MB is the cheapest 128MB Ti4200 card i can find right but it's still on the expensive side at roughly $250 (i'm in Canada after all). Hopefully when the 8xAGP cards start showing up and the NV30 gets announced prices will start dropping, if this card ever gets around the $180-$200 point i'm pouncing on it.

Uttar
10-28-02, 11:26 AM
I'd say the most limiting factor is the RAM.

thcdru2k
10-28-02, 02:25 PM
why not wait for r9500?

_leech_
10-28-02, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by thcdru2k
why not wait for r9500?

Cost. Plus my system is already kind of limited so i don't think the 9500 will provide any benefit on my system to warrent the extra cost over a Ti4200.

saturnotaku
10-28-02, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by _leech_
Cost. Plus my system is already kind of limited so i don't think the 9500 will provide any benefit on my system to warrent the extra cost over a Ti4200.

Gonna follow pelly's advice in his 9700 review then aren't you? :D

_leech_
10-28-02, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by saturnotaku
Gonna follow pelly's advice in his 9700 review then aren't you? :D

Well i'm a very price concious gamer ;)

saturnotaku
10-28-02, 03:37 PM
Hehehe, if that's the case, check out the XFX Ti4200. nV News has a review of it. 8-layer PCB and a whole bunch of other goodies for the same price as the MSI. Since you're in Canada, I'm not sure if it's available by you, but if it is it's definitely worth a look.

_leech_
10-28-02, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by saturnotaku
Hehehe, if that's the case, check out the XFX Ti4200. nV News has a review of it. 8-layer PCB and a whole bunch of other goodies for the same price as the MSI. Since you're in Canada, I'm not sure if it's available by you, but if it is it's definitely worth a look.

Cool, i'll look it up :)

ATI LoVeR 9700
10-28-02, 06:23 PM
Hmm... I'd wait for the 9500. It's a DX9 card, has better AA and Aniso and should be in the same price range. Remember what's said in the reviews is retail price.

I see no reason why not to wait a month or two for a superior card.

The Baron
10-28-02, 07:27 PM
Originally posted by ATI LoVeR 9700
Hmm... I'd wait for the 9500. It's a DX9 card, has better AA and Aniso and should be in the same price range. Remember what's said in the reviews is retail price.

I see no reason why not to wait a month or two for a superior card.

And you don't think the Ti4200 will be cheaper in a month or two?

Plus, he wants it NOW!

Not tomorrow, not next week, not next month...

NOW! NOW, GODDAMNIT, NOW! :p

Whoa, caffeine rush...

saturnotaku
10-28-02, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by =SSC=The Baron
NOW! NOW, GODDAMNIT, NOW! :p


Whoa...Opposing Force flashback. :eek:

Lezmaka
10-28-02, 09:02 PM
Originally posted by ATI LoVeR 9700
Hmm... I'd wait for the 9500. It's a DX9 card, has better AA and Aniso and should be in the same price range. Remember what's said in the reviews is retail price.

I see no reason why not to wait a month or two for a superior card.

I'm sorry, but DX9 support doesn't really mean a thing. By the time games actually take advantage of it, the 9500 is gonna be so damn slow, it won't be worth using.

The GF3 was released sometime in February/March 2001 and the two biggest game coming out (UT2003 and Doom3) barely use any DX8 stuff, if any at all. And compared to cards out now, they will run dog slow on a GF3.

The 9500 Pro performs well but we have no idea how the 9500 will perform since it only has 4 pipes.

thcdru2k
10-28-02, 09:03 PM
BAH WAIT i thought r9500 is suppose to be faster than ti4600 and in ti4200 price range?

Lezmaka
10-28-02, 09:17 PM
The 9500 Pro is supposed to be, but we won't know for sure until ATI can get some actual cards out there, not the hacked 9700 boards. The boards they gave out could only use 64mb of ram and so like on Tom's review where he tested 4xAA @ 1280x1024 or higher, it wouldn't run.

Onde Pik
10-30-02, 09:21 AM
Originally posted by _leech_
Cost. Plus my system is already kind of limited so i don't think the 9500 will provide any benefit on my system to warrent the extra cost over a Ti4200.

The 9500 will be very close to the Ti4200 if not cheaper. And it will give you a benefit over the Ti4200 especially if you have a slow CPU. The 9500 and Ti4200 is very close in performance without AA and Aniso, but when you put them on the TI4200 is left in the dust. And turning on AA and Aniso will not affect the load on the CPU.

If you want AA as you said and want it for the holidays, there is litte point in not getting the R9500. On top of the added posibility of AA and Aniso you also get a card that is much more furture proof and has better quality AA.

Onde Pik
10-30-02, 10:33 AM
Originally posted by Lezmaka
The 9500 Pro is supposed to be, but we won't know for sure until ATI can get some actual cards out there, not the hacked 9700 boards. The boards they gave out could only use 64mb of ram and so like on Tom's review where he tested 4xAA @ 1280x1024 or higher, it wouldn't run.

:rolleyes:

http://www.ati.com/products/pc/radeon9500pro/index.html

_leech_
10-30-02, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by Onde Pik
The 9500 will be very close to the Ti4200 if not cheaper. And it will give you a benefit over the Ti4200 especially if you have a slow CPU. The 9500 and Ti4200 is very close in performance without AA and Aniso, but when you put them on the TI4200 is left in the dust. And turning on AA and Aniso will not affect the load on the CPU.

If you want AA as you said and want it for the holidays, there is litte point in not getting the R9500. On top of the added posibility of AA and Aniso you also get a card that is much more furture proof and has better quality AA.

Like i said, COST (http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1735&p=18):You get much better performance with the Radeon 9500 Pro than you would with the Ti 4200 but it also comes at a good $50 - $65 than most Ti 4200 cards.That'll be close to $100 more expensive than a Ti4200 in Cdn funds and that's unacceptable. Given the Ti4200's amazing overclockability i honestly don't think the 9500 will be that big a difference to warrent the extra cost over a Ti4200, especially considering most Ti4200's are set to drop in price.

Lezmaka
10-30-02, 05:54 PM
Originally posted by Onde Pik
:rolleyes:

http://www.ati.com/products/pc/radeon9500pro/index.html

I don't get your point...

ATI didn't have any boards designed for the 9500 to give out to reviewers like HardOCP, AnandTech or Tom's Hardware. They just had 9700 boards that were modded to only use 1/2 the ram because the 9500 Pro is only 128bit.

ATI LoVeR 9700
10-30-02, 09:47 PM
They are all great boards for their price range, you really can't go wrong. I'm just suggesting ATi because of you history with them and the 9500's AA and Aniso ability. If price is big matter, buy a Geforce4 and overclock the hell out of it.

Mono
10-31-02, 12:15 AM
Originally posted by =SSC=The Baron
And you don't think the Ti4200 will be cheaper in a month or two?

Plus, he wants it NOW!

Not tomorrow, not next week, not next month...

NOW! NOW, GODDAMNIT, NOW! :p

Whoa, caffeine rush...

Exactlly... I thought about waiting for nv30... then said screw nvidia (again, lol) and got 9700Pro :D

It's better to game asap then worry about hardware for mounths on end imo.

LORD-eX-Bu
10-31-02, 01:07 AM
Welcome to the boards bud. Great choice in video card, I would highly recommend a Ti 4200 right now. If you can find a Ti 4600 on GUru3d, rage3d or nvnews classifieds thats even better. How much are you looking to spend on a card? anyways, I highly recommend Ti 4200 from anyone, well, except Gainward.:D

Joe DeFuria
10-31-02, 07:41 AM
My $0.02...

I would wait to decide until the 9500 / Pro is available, then decide. It should only be a few weeks.

Of course, if you really need a card., "right now", the 4200 is the best bang for buck, but odds are the 9500 will be the best bang for buck card when it's released.

However, we really have no idea what the street prices of the 9500 will be, and they may end up being much closer to the 4200 than many people are expecting.

I really don't expect the 4200's to drop much more in price. But if you wait, and they do drop in price, then that's to your advantage anyway.

I would not consider the DX9 support on the 9500 a major selling point. (Though if you're into tech demos, it's a nice little plus...there should be some cool DX9 demos from both nVidia and ATI over the next year). I agree with those saying that by the time DX9 titles come out, the card will be considered "underpowered" anyway. It's the AA / aniso performance that makes the card a winner relative the the GeForce4.

That being said....

Because of the advanced vertex / pixel architecture in the 9500, I am expecting the 9500 to be a better card for Doom than the 4200. So if you are planning to keep this card as the one to be playing Doom with next year, then I would again strongly consider waiting before you buy. Of course, if you plan on upgrading your card by the time Doom comes out (or don't think you'll be playing Doom anyway), then it doesn't really matter.

borntosoul
10-31-02, 10:35 AM
welcome :) dont worry about your system being too slow for a 4200 if you plan on gaming in ultra high res or aa + af , get the fastest card you can afford and go for it , the 4200 is great value and good drivers ,another good point made was second hand 4600 ,might be worth it