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RBM
08-03-04, 12:45 AM
I had a 9800 Pro....very satisfied. Good card. However, I am astonished by the performance leap from the 9800 to the 6800 Gt. Incredible. I personally don't think I have seen so many quality products hitting at once. Nvidia hit the bullseye. Right on time. ATI will have a hard time to slow down the utter pandamoneium surrounding the Ultra and the Gt. It is just crazy....evreywhere trying to locate these cards. Sure...I realize that the XT PE hasn't hit the streets en masse however, the benchmarks have been out for awhile and nvidia has been doing their homework: the gap has radically been closing everywhere. In fact, I saw some graphs that showed that the 6800 GT is ALMOST equal to the XT PE in Far Cry. What more could you ask for? Welcome back to the top Nvidia!

wures7
08-03-04, 12:50 AM
I think Doom 3 is going to move alot of cards for Nvidia just as Farcry moved alot for ATI. We already know that Doom 3 does not dissapoint and now we will have to wait for just 1 more blockbuster game. As far as I'm concerned, Nvidia is in the lead.

Lezmaka
08-03-04, 01:05 AM
I think saying it's "obvious" is going a bit too far. If anything, they are equal.

rohit
08-03-04, 03:08 AM
I hav this Strong feeling...Since Nvidia GeForce 6 topping in farcry, doom3, ..etc. The Geforce 6 is definitely topping the HL2 benchies too..
Thast the reason Valve no releasin HL2. They have no other reason. as they clamed the game development is already over.

Anywayz, Nv back on top. Thats for sure.

P4 2.8e HT o/c 3.4GHz
ASUS P4P800-e Deluxe
Inno3d Geforce4 Ti4200
512mb Transcend DDR400

noko
08-03-04, 03:21 AM
On the top ATI has good contentions, everything below that Nvidia is clearly ahead per price/performance. In addition it looks like Nvidia is supplying more cards then ATI as well. If Nvidia can get the cards out to meet the demand before ATI can then Nvidia would probably gain all lost marketshare to ATI is one fast swoop ;). ATI's OEM business is strong plus ATI will be able to cut prices (just look at their boards) when ATI can start meeting demand. So this battle isn't over yet, I do expect ATI to push up their R500 chip :) now. Reason being - - as the drivers mature and more and more games take advantage of sm3 optimizations the R420 will start looking more and more outdated. The surprise wasn't the R420 but the 6800 chip and I think ATI was uterly shocked :wtf: with Nvidia turn around from the NV30 era.

Assi9
08-03-04, 03:21 AM
I hav this Strong feeling...Since Nvidia GeForce 6 topping in farcry, doom3, ..etc. The Geforce 6 is definitely topping the HL2 benchies too..
Thast the reason Valve no releasin HL2. They have no other reason. as they clamed the game development is already over.

Anywayz, Nv back on top. Thats for sure.

P4 2.8e HT o/c 3.4GHz
ASUS P4P800-e Deluxe
Inno3d Geforce4 Ti4200
512mb Transcend DDR400

Doom3 I'll give you that because the OpenGL perf with ATI licks ass. But Far Cry? They are both equal, if anything SM2.0b on an ATI card is just a little faster than SM3.0 NV, but its still negligable.

Your talk about HL2+GF6 is just crap because it's all speculation on your part, if anything it's just your fanboyism talking in the conversation. HL2 is not even released yet, and what you are probably basing your opinions on are beta benches taken well over a year ago(unless of course you can point me to updated numbers, then I will back off on this issue).

Bottom Line:

Both brands have their pros and cons, there is no CLEAR WINNER this round.

Assi9
08-03-04, 03:26 AM
On the top ATI has good contentions, everything below that Nvidia is clearly ahead per price/performance. In addition it looks like Nvidia is supplying more cards then ATI If Nvidia can get the cards out to meet the demand before ATI can then Nvidia would probably gain all lost marketshare to ATI is one fast swoop ;). ATI's OEM business is strong plus ATI will be able to cut prices (just look at their boards) when ATI can start meeting demand. So this battle isn't over yet, I do expect ATI to push up their R500 chip :) now. Reason being - - as the drivers mature and more and more games take advantage of sm3 optimizations the R420 will start looking more and more outdated. The surprise wasn't the R420 but the 6800 chip and I think ATI was uterly shocked :wtf: with Nvidia turn around from the NV30 era.

Well said, I agree with you that ATI didn't go for the Knock-Out punch instead, they got a wakeup call from resting too much on their laurels.

reactiv8
08-03-04, 04:54 AM
I hav this Strong feeling...Since Nvidia GeForce 6 topping in farcry, doom3, ..etc. The Geforce 6 is definitely topping the HL2 benchies too..
Thast the reason Valve no releasin HL2. They have no other reason. as they clamed the game development is already over.

Anywayz, Nv back on top. Thats for sure.

P4 2.8e HT o/c 3.4GHz
ASUS P4P800-e Deluxe
Inno3d Geforce4 Ti4200
512mb Transcend DDR400

According to Xbitlabs review ATI wins most of games with 1600X1200 4X8X AA AF(that is what I use), do not tell me that NV does FAR cry better i am not blind.http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/graphics-cards-2004.html(In case u wanna say that ATi sucks at COD or Wolf Et)
I have been deciding bettween ATI OR NV since the cards were released and i still cant make up my mine.

Oh yeah I like FAr Cry,SOF2,COD,CS,MOH and real games and i think that DOOM3 is crap coz i hate monsters and all that 11 years old ****...So i am going ati and i dont care whatcha say.... :kar:
Yo CHrisRAy i am not flaming man and I am not NV or ATI fan i am just LOOKING FOR RIGHT REVIEWS and INFO TO MAKE THE RIGHT CHOICE BETTWEEN ATI AND NV and when i read all that stuff about ppl saying that NVIDIA Runs FAR CRY better then ATI it makes me wanna buy NV(HOWEVER IT DOESNT) those ppl r just being NVIDIA FANS AND TRYING TO SAY LIES>>>Which sucks for lamers like....
I am not saying that ATI Runs doom3 better coz i dont like that game...

Lfctony
08-03-04, 05:03 AM
Regarding the HL2 comments, there have been updated benchmarks from Xbit Labs, however the 2 top cards exchange blows in all levels, no clear winner.

So far we only have a clear winner in only 2 games which actually carry an impact for the industry. Farcry goes to ATI, Doom3 goes to Nvidia. Both IHVs have done very well this time.

DSC
08-03-04, 05:04 AM
Remember, all ATI AF and AA+AF benchmarks scores are with their filtering cheats/optimization/whatever. Minus 30% from the scores and you'll get the true performance resulsts from ATI's cards.

reactiv8
08-03-04, 05:10 AM
Remember, all ATI AF and AA+AF benchmarks scores are with their filtering cheats/optimization/whatever. Minus 30% from the scores and you'll get the true performance resulsts from ATI's cards.

Man what about quality?According to ixbit.com there was no noticable quality difference between ATI and NV so I assume that if NV does FAR CRY at 1600X1200 with 4x8xAAAF and ATI has the same quality that means that they r equal?If Nv has better image i WILL GO FOR IT....

Lfctony
08-03-04, 05:11 AM
Remember, all ATI AF and AA+AF benchmarks scores are with their filtering cheats/optimization/whatever. Minus 30% from the scores and you'll get the true performance resulsts from ATI's cards.

I think you are being a bit biased here, the cards are equal with Nvidia's Trilinear optimizations on. So, with both IHVs using optimizations, the cards are still more or less equal in 90% of games.

msxyz
08-03-04, 05:36 AM
One thing is for sure: Nvdia has filled the gap with the NV40

If I had to purchase a high card now, I would go for the GeForce6800, possibly the GT: no doubt this is the best value/performance high end card ATM.

Overall, both cards have their pro and cons. Ah, as a said note, since it was mentioned a few times in this thread, I wouldn't compare the new filtering algorithm of ATi cards to the (in)famous brlinear optimizations, as the ATi solution is more elegant and offers superior quality. Proof is that Ati9600 employed this filtering scheme for over a year and nobody noticed anything.

Yet, I would still prefer "full quality" trilinear/aniso all the times and I plaude NVidia for giving the users a choice in their driver.

NoWayDude
08-03-04, 05:57 AM
Man what about quality?According to ixbit.com there was no noticable quality difference between ATI and NV so I assume that if NV does FAR CRY at 1600X1200 with 4x8xAAAF and ATI has the same quality that means that they r equal?If Nv has better image i WILL GO FOR IT....

What u mean equal?Do you mean one doing what it supose to do, and the other not, and still say, "But this one is faster with 4xAA and 8xAF" but forget to mention that they don't do the same?NV35 deja vu anyone?
And besides, for what i read if you choose Quality on NV cards, and opts off, there is no aparent image quality degradation and the cards are on par.Does it make it right?Hell no.
So lets ask ATI to do what they say in the box,turn the opts off and then compare both acordingly.Until then, i will look (as i did on the NV35 series) to benchmarks including AA and AF with very suspicious eyes.It goes for both vendors.

Lezmaka
08-03-04, 06:05 AM
According to Xbitlabs review ATI wins most of games with 1600X1200 4X8X AA AF(that is what I use), do not tell me that NV does FAR cry better i am not blind.


Anyone making blanket statements saying ATI is faster than Nvidia or Nvidia is faster than ATI is acting like a moron.

As for Far Cry, according to FiringSquad and Xbit Labs, you are wrong and right.

ATI (X800 XTPE + SM2.0b) runs Far Cry faster than Nvidia (6800U + SM3.0) at 1600x1200 + 4xAA/8xAF and Nvidia (6800GT + SM3.0) runs Far Cry faster than ATI (X800 Pro + SM2.0b) at 1600x1200 + 4xAA/8xAF.

I'm not sure how accurate Xbit's results are. In almost every other benchmark I've seen, the 6800U is faster than the X800 XT PE by at least 10fps (similar for 6800GT vs X800 Pro), if not more, yet if I am remembering correctly, Xbit showed the X800 XT PE much faster than the 6800U (similar for 6800GT vs X800 Pro).

My take is X800 XT PE >= 6800 Ultra > 6800 GT > X800 Pro and any one will give you excellent performance with one slightly better in some games, and the other slightly better in other games. So it basically comes down to availability, features, preference of a certain company (drivers, personal experience, etc) and price.

reactiv8
08-03-04, 06:23 AM
What u mean equal?Do you mean one doing what it supose to do, and the other not, and still say, "But this one is faster with 4xAA and 8xAF" but forget to mention that they don't do the same?NV35 deja vu anyone?
And besides, for what i read if you choose Quality on NV cards, and opts off, there is no aparent image quality degradation and the cards are on par.Does it make it right?Hell no.
So lets ask ATI to do what they say in the box,turn the opts off and then compare both acordingly.Until then, i will look (as i did on the NV35 series) to benchmarks including AA and AF with very suspicious eyes.It goes for both vendors.
Man I dont kno much about all this stuff(besides i dont even have any of those cards(5950 :()) i just wanna know if NV has better or worse Image quality.So which one has better image quality NV OR ATI IN FAR CRY???OPT OFF!
All reviews i saw said that they pretty much have the same quality....
So IF i buy BOTH CARDS and paly far cry at the same setup(OPT OFF QUALITY MODE) and see no differece in IQ what should I buy?Since they have the same image quality i am going for perfomace.....
Could u also tell me more about all optimizations?

Knell2
08-03-04, 06:24 AM
To me it's all about performance/buck. At $499 segment I been seeing positive/negative on both cards so I think it's fair to say they are both doing fine.

On the $399 segment it's kinda obvious. (There is no need to say which one is better otherwise I wouldn't use that word "obvious")

Also until ATI finishes their new OpenGL driver, Nvidia is still doing better on OpenGL app/games.

mustrum
08-03-04, 06:26 AM
ATI to be 30% faster in HL2!!
http://pc.ign.com/articles/535/535268p1.html?fromint=1

I am no fanboi. I don't know if this is legit. Nvidia mayb be closer than this article wants us to believe i don't know.
One thing is for sure though: The geforce 6 does not beat the XT PE and it'S not the other way round either.
Both are great cards and too close to eachother to say one is faster than the other.

reactiv8
08-03-04, 06:30 AM
To me it's all about performance/buck. At $499 segment I been seeing positive/negative on both cards so I think it's fair to say they are both doing fine.

On the $399 segment it's kinda obvious. (There is no need to say which one is better otherwise I wouldn't use that word "obvious")

Also until ATI finishes their new OpenGL driver, Nvidia is still doing better on OpenGL app/games.
DAmn i am so DUMB....I just saw a review where X800 XT performs better in COD and Wolf ET then 6800Ultra....I was going to buy XT800 in 2 days and i thought i knew everything ..and now i found out that i dont know ****...
It is a good thread coz i am learning a lot

DSC
08-03-04, 06:41 AM
There is IQ degradation, despite whatever ATI tries to make you believe. It's bad enough they only do 5bit filtering to reduce the workload, and now even better, mostly bilinear filtering and only trilinear when coloured mipmaps are enabled. :rolleyes:

Arioch
08-03-04, 06:42 AM
I currently have a X800XT and it is a great card. However, I am about to swap out this card for a 6800 Ultra. Why am I doing this? It is because while I think the performance differences between the two cards are about equal at high resolutions with AA/AF applied, I do find some reasons that I personally want the 6800 Ultra for.

1. ATI drivers no longer suck like some people still claim but they are still a tad below Nvidia's from game problems that are reported from my experiences. It also never fails to see a mjor game come out every so often where there is some ATI-specific bug in it like the shadow problems in Thief 3 and SC:Pandora Tomorrow that do not affect Nvidia cards.

2. SM3.0 is important to me as I can see developers supporting it already and I am more looking forward to the eye candy it may bring as opposed to any performance gains. 3dc is a useful tech for ATI but I don't see it being as evolutionary as SM3.0.

3. My X800XT can run OpenGL game decent, but not on the level I expect them to. I am aware ATI is working on a rewrite of the code supposedly buy Nvidia's is pretty solid right now.

4. Stereo 3D support - Nvidia has it, ATI doesn't. While this may seem like a trivial thing to some people the technology is something I am interested into getting back into. Having a Mitsubishi 2070SB means I can get high refresh rates at the high resolutions which is important for this technology.

Both cards rock and I would be happy with either one but if I had to pick one for my PC till next year, it is going to be the 6800 Ultra.

Knell2
08-03-04, 06:48 AM
BTW I am kinda slow on news lately. Has ATI come up with a new card for $299 segment yet? :)

dare_devil
08-03-04, 06:58 AM
nope

reactiv8
08-03-04, 07:04 AM
Thanx Arioch and thanx DSC...I have 2 question...


1) My X800XT can run OpenGL game decent, but not on the level I expect them to. I am aware ATI is working on a rewrite of the code supposedly buy Nvidia's is pretty solid right now-----I am not rying to b a smart ass but i saw reviews and ATI does PAinkiller,MAx Payne 2,COD,Wolf ET better...not by large margin but better...Maybe u r talking about Doom3???



2)There is IQ degradation, despite whatever ATI tries to make you believe. It's bad enough they only do 5bit filtering to reduce the workload, and now even better, mostly bilinear filtering and only trilinear when coloured mipmaps are enabled----I thought they had pretty much the same IQ???----If this is true I am going NVIDIA.See i think NV will neva release Far Cry 1.* patch that will run faster then 1.1 and after that they will make up some crap story that NExt gen cards will support SM4.0 that will run Far CRy 2xfasterx6800Ultra....SO for now i wanna run FCry on X800 xt with 1.1 patch

Chippy
08-03-04, 07:06 AM
4. Stereo 3D support - Nvidia has it, ATI doesn't. While this may seem like a trivial thing to some people the technology is something I am interested into getting back into. Having a Mitsubishi 2070SB means I can get high refresh rates at the high resolutions which is important for this technology.

A much neglected and underestimated point, I think!

I have yet to find anybody who had actually **tried** the latest 3d glasses technology who didn't think it was absolutely amazing. This was one of the factors I went for my 6800GT, although I have yet to try it out.

BTW I have been completely blown away by just how good the GT is. I plugged it all in and tried a few games and benchies and stuff and its simply amazing. 12000 in 3mark03, straight off, no messing. Wow.

And **importantly** the card cost me £275, whereas the cheapest X800 Pro I could find anywhere was £300, and most are £310 ~ £330. I think the 6800GT is a *way* better card than the X800 Pro.

Chip