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Slyder
08-05-04, 02:32 PM
Multiplayer is a complete wash out on this title. I have been playing Doom 3 for a number of hours now, and here are my findings.

Single Player

Not entirely original from games I have played before. The planet (Mars) was used on Red Faction, and overall the story is a little weak. Graphics are nice, but really do not justify the hype, but was happily surpised they have kept the true feeling of advancing via a card system.

Multiplayer

Complete rubbish. The amount of times Doom 1 and 2 have been re-released on the PC with all of it's multiplayer features in tact should of been an example Doom 3 followed. We had full Co-Op support, and this is where Doom 3 fails The 5 multiplayer maps in Doom 3 is laughable, and hard hitting proof this game is for hardcore single player game fans. Since the original, we have had progress in the form of PunkBuster Anti-Cheat software for Internet play, and 4 player split screen as seen below, which Doom 3, yet again has failed to include.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/kevin.robson2/Nvida%20forum/ss2.JPG

In short, I am enjoying this game but I cant deny it is a let down for me and could of been alot better in the multiplayer department.

intercede007
08-05-04, 02:39 PM
Hopefully this will only have to be said this last time...

iD focused on the single player component of the game. The netcode is part of the engine and package so Quake 4 and the mod makers have a finished product to work with and a knowledge base of what works and what doesn't.

If you bought Doom 3 because you wanted an awesome multiplayer experience.....well...sorry :)

Slyder
08-05-04, 03:08 PM
If you bought Doom 3 because you wanted an awesome multiplayer experience.....well...sorry :)

On the contary, I read the Co-Op support will be there on the Xbox version ? If it is, then shame on the PC version.

intercede007
08-05-04, 03:11 PM
On the contary, I read the Co-Op support will be there on the Xbox version ? If it is, then shame on the PC version.

How the heck are you going to Co-Op a PC game? Over a LAN? Because it would be pointless and frustrating otherwise. I'd much rather grab a second controller then cart over a PC and monitor. Shame on Microsoft for not getting the Doom 3 game out on the XBOX sooner. I would have bought that first if it wasn't 2 months behind the PC release.

Edge
08-05-04, 03:14 PM
Actually, the Xbox version will only support coop online over Live (and presumably system link), there aren't going to be any splitscreen modes. And it's Vicarious Visions who are in charge of porting the Xbox version, so it's up to them what features to add and how it turns out (I don't think ID ever really took the Xbox into account after coming up with the base engine features).

Kamel
08-05-04, 03:23 PM
IMO the devs didn't really care about multiplayer so much; they know that mods will do that for them... wether that's good or bad, well, that's for us to decide.

edit: and it's not id's fault punkbuster isn't included.

evilchris
08-05-04, 03:24 PM
LOL they used Mars so its unoriginal? Sounds like you were reaching there man :p I can say that such and such game used Earth so all games taking place on Earth are unoriginal?

aAv7
08-05-04, 03:38 PM
I hate to think they concentrated soley on the single player game, cause there isnt enough there to justify a 4 year long development.

evilchris
08-05-04, 03:50 PM
The engine development is what takes the most time. Honestly though, what do you know about game development?

|JuiceZ|
08-05-04, 03:55 PM
The engine development is what takes the most time. Honestly though, what do you know about game development?

exactly. ID is aware of their strong mod community following & entrusted that they would take care of the multiplayer side.

jbirney
08-05-04, 03:56 PM
The netcode is part of the engine and package so Quake 4 and the mod makers have a finished product to work with and a knowledge base of what works and what doesn't.

Sorry but I dont want to count on the mod makers to make the MP part of it to work. MP should have had more time dedicated to it. Yes I know that ID worked more on the 1st player part, but IDs games have always had very good MP parts, and this IMHO is a step back for the company that more or less kicked started internet gaming with QuakeWorld. All IMHO.

evilchris
08-05-04, 04:00 PM
iD has stated since the beginning that MP was not a big design goal with this game. If you expected deep, involved multiplayer with tons of options that's your own fault. I'm glad they went SP focus on this one. Why does every freaking game HAVE to have multiplayer? I wouldn't care if it had none at all.

Kamel
08-05-04, 04:05 PM
Sorry but I dont want to count on the mod makers to make the MP part of it to work. MP should have had more time dedicated to it. Yes I know that ID worked more on the 1st player part, but IDs games have always had very good MP parts, and this IMHO is a step back for the company that more or less kicked started internet gaming with QuakeWorld. All IMHO.

you're forgetting that they also have always had very weak SP parts, which is definitely not true in this game. not like unreal tournament, where the single player is nothing but a multiplayer arena with bots added.

so basically, the way i look at it... usually we get crappy SP, good MP, and the mods/maps make the multiplayer even better. now we are going to get excellent SP, and the mods are going to make the mp just as good as if the mp wasn't crappy to begin with... of course, that's with the assumption that you feel the MP is crappy; i haven't gotten a good taste for the MP yet myself.

so, how many of us actually play "halflife" multiplayer? right, it's either CS or TFC... my point exactly.

Edge
08-05-04, 04:11 PM
True, it seems many developers nowadays know that there will be multiplayer mods and levels that eclipse those that would be included with the game, so they focus on getting the base technology and single-player down and then allowing user-made material to become popular. Look at Serious Sam: it had ONE multiplayer deathmatch map (which is why I find the topic creator's arguement so humorous :P ). And then when Serious Sam: Second Encounter came out, they included a SS1 mod with it and a bunch of user-made levels. Aside from the netcode, they put almost no work into the multiplayer mode, and yet the multiplayer for the game is extremely popular.

Though it's kinda funny...RTCW wasn't even supposed to have multiplayer at first, but it became the best part of the game. Even when they focused on the single-player it still turned out mediocre, Doom 3 at least offers a decent single-player game along with great technology and a good base for multiplayer.

schuey74
08-05-04, 04:22 PM
How the heck are you going to Co-Op a PC game? Over a LAN? Because it would be pointless and frustrating otherwise.
Not according to Croteam. The first Serious Sams had it and the next will too. Co-op would have been a huge addition to single player game, especially considering the lackluster mulitplayer mode, which was to be expected. I doubt we would hear half the mp complaints we are hearing now if at least co-op was included....I guess we can always hope for a patch. :)

Slyder
08-05-04, 04:32 PM
How the heck are you going to Co-Op a PC game? Over a LAN?

Lan and/or SplitScreen. Having the choice will always score points in peoples reviews. ;)

Kamel
08-05-04, 04:47 PM
RTCW wasn't even supposed to have multiplayer at first, but it became the best part of the game. Even when they focused on the single-player it still turned out mediocre, Doom 3 at least offers a decent single-player game along with great technology and a good base for multiplayer.

lol, even funnier they released a stand-alone mod for RTCW that was multiplayer only. (enemy territory)

Mr. Hunt
08-05-04, 05:27 PM
Be glad you had multiplayer. I remember reading a long time ago they wouldn't have ANY multiplayer. And I REALLY hope you aren't complaining about no split screen on a PC game...

And I am glad no punkbuster was used. There are other solutions to cheats. Punkbuster WILL lag your game at the start of every round checking your system for crap and it is terrible.

Zeta
08-05-04, 05:40 PM
I dont care for punkbuster either.

Slyder
08-05-04, 06:26 PM
Punkbuster WILL lag your game at the start of every round checking your system for crap and it is terrible.

I have never had lag with a PB enabled game, and I have played them all except 1. You either have a slow connection, or a rubbish ISP my friend. I have a perfect ping around 20-30 with no spikes or packet loss, in all PB games. I think America's Army is the only exception to that, as I have never tried it.

WeReWoLf
08-05-04, 06:32 PM
Actually Co-op over a LAN would be faster than Co-op over broadband on Xbox, because of lower ping times and higher bandwidth capactiy. If you can Lan MP Doom 3, then at 100Mbps then i dare say that LAN Co-op would be able to run nicely.

Kamel
08-05-04, 08:17 PM
i guess it's time to come out of the closet on this one... i work with a modding community in enemy territory for ETPro, and i am the one who detects the cheats. etpro even though it has a lag time in releases of about a month on average, has much more advanced anti-cheat technology than punkbuster with IAC, which is manually updated; along with some special secrets that no one will get. i know quite a lot about punkbuster and anti-cheating, and *believe me* the only feature in punkbuster that can stop cheaters is a global ban list (punkbuster doesn't even have this, wow) and the screenshot feature. punkbuster is unreliable and a pain in the ass... not to mention it decreases your FPS because for some reason or another they thought it would be a good idea to have punkbuster read your cd key every single frame that's rendered. need proof? clicky (http://bani.anime.net/banimod/forums/groupcp.php?g=2647&sid=843ee5e4f2e691270486ed7384d2b1c9)