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Nv40
08-08-04, 03:42 AM
hey.. take a look at the screenshot i took when i was in the monorail... very nice outdoors.. jawbreaking... :D the more i play in DOom3 the more it impress me. :)

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=7410&stc=1


there are better screenshots but i just dont want to spoil the fun for the people still playing it.. posted just one that many people that followed the trailers will be familiar... i really think the Mod community in Doom3 will be doing amazing things there ,that will give Unreal3 engine a good competition in the graphics department.. :)

Intel17
08-08-04, 09:42 AM
Didn't I say Doom3's ENGINE was comprable to Unreal Engine 3 :)

Glad you like it man! Now, dont you think Doom3's ENIGNE smokes any other engine out there now :)

kahloq
08-08-04, 09:55 AM
Again you cannot compare any released game to Unreal 3. Unreal 3 engine isnt even out of beta and still has 2 yrs more on development. Doom3 was based on geforce 3 when it was started. Yes many advancements were made during the 4 yrs of development. It will be the same with Unreal 3 except it is based on newer gfx cards then geforce 3 era and will also get massive advancements as the development continues.

DivotMaker
08-08-04, 10:09 AM
Well, that "outdoor" screenshot does not impress me at all. It is not too complicated or difficult to render a screen like that with today's hardware. I find that Far Cry (outdoors) and Tiger Woods 2004 (2005 Beta smokes 2004 so far in immersion qualities...) are far more impressive in rednering outdoor environments. I do not think you can objectively compare D3 to Far Cry or TW in outdoor rendering capabilities....D3 is not even in the same league.

Arioch
08-08-04, 10:30 AM
Well, that "outdoor" screenshot does not impress me at all. It is not too complicated or difficult to render a screen like that with today's hardware. I find that Far Cry (outdoors) and Tiger Woods 2004 (2005 Beta smokes 2004 so far in immersion qualities...) are far more impressive in rednering outdoor environments. I do not think you can objectively compare D3 to Far Cry or TW in outdoor rendering capabilities....D3 is not even in the same league.

Agreed - still a nice engine for the right game though. For the RPG player in me I think the Crytek engine would be great for the next Elder Scrolls game while the Doom 3 engine would do justice to a first person dungeon crawl like an Ultima Underworld or Arx Fatalis.

Banko
08-08-04, 11:30 AM
You do know that is the mars landscape? How about we get some good mappers to reproduce a Far Cry level? Wtf are you expecting from Mars, seriously ?

Nv40
08-08-04, 11:49 AM
Again you cannot compare any released game to Unreal 3. Unreal 3 engine isnt even out of beta and still has 2 yrs more on development. Doom3 was based on geforce 3 when it was started. Yes many advancements were made during the 4 yrs of development. It will be the same with Unreal 3 except it is based on newer gfx cards then geforce 3 era and will also get massive advancements as the development continues.


yes you can compare it..technically speaking (albeit Unreal3 is not out yet) in fact Doom3 is the -closest game- to Unreal3 graphics wise because its main Rendering use realtime per pixel lighting/shadowing/speculars/bumpapped for everything. what some of the guys above doesnt know is that once you have realtime perpixel ...everything... there is *not limit* for the quality you can get except performance . as far as Modding capabilities Unreal3 quality *IS* also possible for any skilled 3dartist all you need is to use higher polygons counts for the things you want to look more cinematic. Unreal3/FArcry extras will be softshadows and the custom nicer pixel shader effects (the halocinogenous and brighter lights :) ) in the case of Unreal3 and very nice water and dense forest in the case of farcry.. So if you dont need fantasy good looking style graphics ,(neither softshadows) the Doom3 and artistic skills is all you need. in other words dynamic lights in realtime for everything is the only way for realism. THe good looking Forests and water effects engines you see in many latest game will need to update their rendering for something more dynamic when it comes to lighting in the end. but we are still many years from that. if a game have the disney colourfull look ,then its because its lighting is not correct. all other games mentioned here have that look here and there in the game.

Intel17
08-08-04, 12:18 PM
I bet Quake 4 and RTCW 2 will rival Unreal Engine 3...Amazing things will happen with the Doom3 engine...you just wait :)

Nv40, Im glad you understand that Doom3's renderer isnt far behind UE3 and is ahead of CryEngine

jAkUp
08-08-04, 12:31 PM
"amazing things will happen here, you just wait'

:D lol

Clay
08-08-04, 02:31 PM
Not to dump on the Doom 3 engine's outdoors capability
(id obviously did not make that a focus for Doom 3).
For example, if you're going to make a game like Doom 3's
storyline then vast outdoor levels really don't make much
sense considering the plot/setting/environment/etc.
Having said that, however, you can get a much better
idea of that monorail area if you just turn clipping off as
I illustrate below. I think one would agree that it's not
very "vast" or impressive from these angles. That is not
to say that the Doom 3 engine is not capable of doing so,
none of us really know...we'll just have to wait and see.

http://www.nvnews.net/temp/doom3/clay/outside1.jpg

http://www.nvnews.net/temp/doom3/clay/outside2.jpg

http://www.nvnews.net/temp/doom3/clay/outside3.jpg

http://www.nvnews.net/temp/doom3/clay/outside4.jpg

http://www.nvnews.net/temp/doom3/clay/outside6.jpg

http://www.nvnews.net/temp/doom3/clay/outside7.jpg

http://www.nvnews.net/temp/doom3/clay/outside8.jpg

You can see more here (http://www.nvnews.net/temp/doom3/clay/tn.htm). (yeah, some of the links are incorrect I know).

saturnotaku
08-08-04, 02:41 PM
Those shots serve to make Far Cry's outdoor environments that much nicer. But since outdoors aren't the focus for D3, any comparisons to good outdoor games is moot point.

Clay
08-08-04, 02:49 PM
Those shots serve to make Far Cry's outdoor environments that much nicer. But since outdoors aren't the focus for D3, any comparisons to good outdoor games is moot point.
Exactly. For now, any outdoor comparisons of the Doom 3 engine to other game engines is an apples/oranges one.

Banko
08-08-04, 03:12 PM
Like I said some mappers should try to make an outdoor map :/

DivotMaker
08-08-04, 03:25 PM
1. I bet Quake 4 and RTCW 2 will rival Unreal Engine 3...Amazing things will happen with the Doom3 engine...you just wait :)

2. Nv40, Im glad you understand that Doom3's renderer isnt far behind UE3 and is ahead of CryEngine

1. I have no doubt that there will be some very good things come from D3's engine, however....

2. Not buying that statement whatsoever. And really, comparing engines of different API's and different target rendering environments (FC is more flexible in that it does do BOTH indoors and outdoors very well, not just indoors) is simply not a valid comparison. Rendering an animated outdoor world (especially with animated trees and foliage) is FAR and AWAY a much more challenging than a dark indoor world. Don't get me wrong, I think D3 is very good at what it tries to be, but it does nothing for me like Far Cry does.

saturnotaku
08-08-04, 03:27 PM
Don't get me wrong, I think D3 is very good at what it tries to be, but it does nothing for me like Far Cry does.

BB, you've just encapsulated in one sentence everything I've been thinking during my odyssey with Doom 3. You and me, we's like kindred spirits. :D

DivotMaker
08-08-04, 03:35 PM
BB, you've just encapsulated in one sentence everything I've been thinking during my odyssey with Doom 3. You and me, we's like kindred spirits. :D

GMTA...(Great Minds Think Alike)... :thumbsup:

Glad you like that comment because it is how I feel about FC and Tiger Woods as well because they both are trying to do similar things and I have to say that I think FC does a better job in rendering the outdoor world than TW2004 does, but TW2005 will close the gap on this in some pretty impressive ways from what I have seen in beta.

Skrot
08-08-04, 06:45 PM
Rendering an animated outdoor world (especially with animated trees and foliage) is FAR and AWAY a much more challenging than a dark indoor world.Hm can you back that up? It doesn't sound too likely to me, really.

DivotMaker
08-08-04, 07:19 PM
Hm can you back that up? It doesn't sound too likely to me, really.

It does not take a genius to understand that TREES and foliage are FAR more difficult to render than the surface of Mars.... :rolleyes:

evilchris
08-08-04, 08:22 PM
Well, that "outdoor" screenshot does not impress me at all. It is not too complicated or difficult to render a screen like that with today's hardware. I find that Far Cry (outdoors) and Tiger Woods 2004 (2005 Beta smokes 2004 so far in immersion qualities...) are far more impressive in rednering outdoor environments. I do not think you can objectively compare D3 to Far Cry or TW in outdoor rendering capabilities....D3 is not even in the same league.

Yep it's in a higher league.

evilchris
08-08-04, 08:23 PM
It does not take a genius to understand that TREES and foliage are FAR more difficult to render than the surface of Mars.... :rolleyes:

Trees are actually extremely easy to render. Half the trees in a wide FarCry shot are SPRITES and not even geometry. Everquest did that fine with DirectX 5.

jAkUp
08-08-04, 08:32 PM
Yes farcry uses sprites for distant objects, then as you get close they change to geometry. Sometimes its ugly because you can see it change. FarCry is still a beautiful game however. Most outdoor games do this to keep the polygons at a minimum. I remember Motocross Madness 2 did this as well and it was pretty ugly sometimes :)

Nv40
08-08-04, 08:40 PM
well this is not a farcry topic.. but the "nicer graphics" in FArcry outdoors lacks heavily in realism. is very easy to notice is not the graphics i will notice in the real world.

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=7425&stc=1

if you look at this very nice good looking screenshot ,people here will instanly notice *IS* a coputer game.. ;) with nice graphics. you can notice in less than a second that is not a movie or a photo of something real. look at the rocks and the plants (all green -no shadows)) there is no cinematic there graphics because the lighting is static and incorrect and the reflections of the light is identical for every surface ,Hl2 and UnrealT2004 suffer from this Hanna Barbera look ,that while it can look beautifull is still will look easily like a computer game. Doom3 while it doesnt have forest for obvious reasons many times Rocks and metals looks realistic. :) and if you design Trees there they can look close to realistic too.. no reason for not to be..,lighting reflected in the ground also looks like real Sun light. in the future all games lighting outdoors/indoors will be dynamic at all times ,just like Doom3 and Unreal3engine.

Clay
08-08-04, 08:44 PM
well this is not a farcry topic.. but the "nicer graphics" in FArcry has nothing to do with realism. i like nichelodeon Tv cartoons graphics but when i look at them .. is very easy to notice is not the graphics i will notice in the real world.I vote for a better analogy. :p

Banko
08-08-04, 08:57 PM
Is there a doom 3 editor, like unrealed for instance? I might as well just fool around with an outdoor map, and see what the engine can do.

saturnotaku
08-08-04, 09:35 PM
if you look at this very nice good looking screenshot ,people here will instanly notice *IS* a coputer game.. ;) with nice graphics. you can notice in less than a second that is not a movie or a photo of something real. look at the rocks and the plants (all green -no shadows)) there is no cinematic there graphics because the lighting is static and incorrect and the reflections of the light is identical for every surface ,Hl2 and UnrealT2004 suffer from this Hanna Barbera look ,that while it can look beautifull is still will look easily like a computer game. Doom3 while it doesnt have forest for obvious reasons many times Rocks and metals looks realistic. :) and if you design Trees there they can look close to realistic too.. no reason for not to be..,lighting reflected in the ground also looks like real Sun light. in the future all games lighting outdoors/indoors will be dynamic at all times ,just like Doom3 and Unreal3engine.

Again, this is all moot point because you're comparing simulated rocks and metal to simulated trees and water. I bet you could make Far Cry look exactly like the surface of Mars in Doom 3 if you had the right resources. Just like you could probably make a tropical paradise from the Doom 3 engine. Only if we see things like that could valid comparisons be made.