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ChrisRay
08-09-04, 02:36 PM
http://bbs.gzeasy.com/index.php?showtopic=223360

From the looks of it the 199 dollar card is going have memory that about 900 mhz to 1 Ghz Memory )(GDDR3) I am sitting here thinking this card looks remarkably like the Old FX 5800 in clock speeds, Yet will perform way better.

Not bad, Though its 128 Bit bus is kinda disapointing, (But not really look at the insane fillrate its getting), This card actually is kinda exciting me, Would love to have an opurtunity to toy with it.

ragejg
08-09-04, 02:41 PM
So the TSOP equipped ~300mhz core non-ultra should score roughly ~6000 bungholio03marks? Cool... definitely, for $149, that's cool...

Dazz
08-09-04, 04:05 PM
Hmm i am thinking of getting the GeForce 6600GT.

Apachee
08-09-04, 04:22 PM
i wanna 6600 Ultra 525mhz core,1100mhz(256bit)Gddr3 :clap: :clap: :rolleyes: :nana:

zoomy942
08-09-04, 06:11 PM
is it only pci express? and if so, when will this card be available?

Dazz
08-09-04, 06:29 PM
Nope it will be both AGP & PCI-E

MUYA
08-09-04, 07:52 PM
damn, mainstreams need to move to 256 bit memory interface...why? I dunno so that game devs then dun have too much about tweaking their games ...a lil minor point.

ChrisRay
08-09-04, 07:55 PM
damn, mainstreams need to move to 256 bit memory interface...why? I dunno so that game devs then dun have too much about tweaking their games ...a lil minor point.

I dont see why mainstream cards need to move to 256 bus, Generally most games are becoming fillrate limited before bandwith, So This would mostly affect Anti aliasing performance.

I dont think its fillrate/bandwith is that bad, May have less bandwith but a rather substancial fillrate.

MUYA
08-09-04, 08:01 PM
I only forsee a reason wrt to AA and AF maybe. Thats my point. As you know AA is memory bandwidth limited. For mainstream to enjoy 4X AA and the likes we need to make the mainstreams 256 bit for more peak memory bandwidth. It's time to make mainstream cards capable for decent AA performing. If a user with 128 bit memory interface cards wants to game with say 4X AA, he might have to make in game quality sacrifices elsewhere...we want teh mainstreams to enjoy a high quality AA filled experience.Thats what I am on about.

mikechai
08-09-04, 08:03 PM
GeForce 6600 card pics (http://www.gzeasy.com/itnewsdetail.asp?nID=15784) (not GT)

ChrisRay
08-09-04, 08:24 PM
I only forsee a reason wrt to AA and AF maybe. Thats my point. As you know AA is memory bandwidth limited. For mainstream to enjoy 4X AA and the likes we need to make the mainstreams 256 bit for more peak memory bandwidth. It's time to make mainstream cards capable for decent AA performing. If a user with 128 bit memory interface cards wants to game with say 4X AA, he might have to make in game quality sacrifices elsewhere...we want teh mainstreams to enjoy a high quality AA filled experience.Thats what I am on about.


I dont think AA/AF are a problem if they lower the resolutions, I never really consider AA/AF neccasary, Just rather perks, I really do think they'll be able to enjoy AA/AF still, Just not aty 1600x1200.

MUYA
08-09-04, 08:38 PM
u don't think? ;) dude if u ask mainstream owners...and they will think its a problems that's what i am gettng at. A higher memory interface would be nice for this part of the market. No matter how much filrlate u have, if you don't have bandwidth your 4X aa is not going to be playable at even 1024 by 768 res with up coming titles. U dig what I am saying? Why deprive the mainstreamers eh?

ragejg
08-09-04, 09:11 PM
MUYA, my only argument with that is that in the US, it really seems to me that a lot of the guys that buy mainstream cards really just "want something to make games run better", and they don't ever touch their control panel... I think that's a large portion of the mainstream market, and nv may be just trying to hit the right sweetspot in the market, a balance between fillrate, bandwidth, and cost... If this card is more @ home with 2xAA, I think I'll still be ok with it... I personally still have not become overly dependant on AA, though, I do like 4xAF at least on everything I play...

Some mainstreamers just deprive themselves... I know too many ppl with ~$200 vidcards that don't even enable half the stuff they could... it's either not important enough to them, or they're ONLY after FPS because somebody told them it helps you snipe WAAAY better in Spearhead :p...

MUYA
08-09-04, 09:21 PM
then again i am saying...why deprive them? OK i also kow a 256 bit memory interface maybe more costly ..to manufacture these cards but..if u can get away with it why not?

ragejg
08-09-04, 09:25 PM
true, true... maybe it's this one weak point to *help* sell remaining stock of nv35's... ??? As some ppl (the mainstreamers who DO use their CP, who do use AA and stuff) will be like "hmmm, I have $200... and I don't want no wimpy 128 bit memory bus" ...

/5800U glares @ me :p

ChrisRay
08-09-04, 11:33 PM
u don't think? ;) dude if u ask mainstream owners...and they will think its a problems that's what i am gettng at. A higher memory interface would be nice for this part of the market. No matter how much filrlate u have, if you don't have bandwidth your 4X aa is not going to be playable at even 1024 by 768 res with up coming titles. U dig what I am saying? Why deprive the mainstreamers eh?



But you expect something for nothing, 256 Bus obviously costs alot of money, This card is eventually going to replace the 5700 which can be had for alot less than 199, As will this card, 9700/9800/5900 are sold at a loss due to price wars,

MUYA
08-09-04, 11:45 PM
But you expect something for nothing, 256 Bus obviously costs alot of money, This card is eventually going to replace the 5700 which can be had for alot less than 199, As will this card, 9700/9800/5900 are sold at a loss due to price wars,
erm what is your point? I am saying 256 bit needs to be introduced to let the mainstreamers enjoy AA without compromising too much the in game image quality? I KNOW It costs more than 128 bit implementation but if costs can be met within the $199 bracket then it would be nice for that to be implemented. I know the nv43 is going to replce the nv36? did i say it wasn't?

All I am saying is that with 256 bit part mainstreams, we would have a situation where they pay less but not necessarily have to compromise on settings. somehow I am reading that you seem think, because it's mainstream they dun deserve it.

Reaper106
08-10-04, 12:24 AM
I agree with Muya, If the card can meet the 199.00 price point and have a 256 bit bus then why not. the sooner we get mainstream card's to a decent spec, then I think more game dev's will look at doing games with a higher IQ, as it is right now. it's the mainstream that holds alot of devs back from pushing the graphic to far "IMO". improvments in the mainstream will improve the quality that we all enjoy I belive.

BTW good to be back on... been away for a while during my move and so on.. :firedevil

ragejg
08-10-04, 12:33 AM
regardless of everything and anything, moving the industry forward is best... SM3 in a mainstream card = great... next on the list, 256 bit memory bus... well, actually, you know what, teh PCX 5900 fits that bill, actually... :D :p

sabrewulf165
08-10-04, 12:51 AM
GeForce 6600 card pics (http://www.gzeasy.com/itnewsdetail.asp?nID=15784) (not GT)
hmm, looks just like my old PNY GeForce2 MX400

ChrisRay
08-10-04, 01:18 AM
erm what is your point? I am saying 256 bit needs to be introduced to let the mainstreamers enjoy AA without compromising too much the in game image quality? I KNOW It costs more than 128 bit implementation but if costs can be met within the $199 bracket then it would be nice for that to be implemented. I know the nv43 is going to replce the nv36? did i say it wasn't?

All I am saying is that with 256 bit part mainstreams, we would have a situation where they pay less but not necessarily have to compromise on settings. somehow I am reading that you seem think, because it's mainstream they dun deserve it.



Problem is they cant meet a 256 price tag and maintain a profit for the IHV, 5900's and 9800 pros have been sold at a loss to remain competitive, The reason these cards are made cheaper is because they are expecting and hoping they will be big sellers will be the cheaper cards to produce,

obviously this chip/pcb is much cheaper to produce and make aprofit off of, I think because its mainstream, It has to be profitable for for the IHV to sell. There are reason cards like the 5700/5700/9600 exist, Rather than more expensive 9500 Non pro, 9500 Pros, ect, The PCB/Memory layout becomes alot more expensive.

Independent manufacturers dont like this, I see people complaining, Yet this cards performance seems to fall exactly in line with what you'd expect, And I see this every generation, There are older high end cards which happen to possibily be a better value than new mainstream cards, This isnt a shock, But this is just how things work.

I really dont expect to see 256 bus mainstream (unless its done to be competitive) For a while if they can get away with it.

Dazz
08-10-04, 01:45 AM
I hardly even use AF or AA anymore i am sick of tried of changing setting to suite a game now so i just play all my games @ 1280x1024 now.

zakelwe
08-10-04, 01:52 AM
That clock speed for the GT looks too high. If it is 500 for an 8 pipe card then I feel sorry for the 6800nu as that is 12 pipelines but 300+ Mhz, well below the 6600GT.

Unless there is some other difference as well ? I suspect more like 400Mhz for it, other wise you have 66% more performance than the plain 6600 for only 33% more cost.

Regards

Andy

PS I think 128bit at 1GHz is enough for this card, though not a good marketing ploy. Have to agree with Chris, if it is a 8x1 500Mhz card with 1Ghz GDDR3 then the speeds are reminiscent of the old 4x2 FX5800 .. shows how things are progressing due to the Ati v nvidia race !

msxyz
08-10-04, 02:18 AM
On a 5700U (128 bit bus @ 450MHz, very close to what the 6600GT will have) AA4x is already usable at 1024x768 with lot of games including some recent titles. Performance decreases rapidly above the mentioned resolution, but I believe mainstream cards are aimed mainly at 1024x768

MUYA
08-10-04, 03:57 AM
Problem is they cant meet a 256 price tag and maintain a profit for the IHV, 5900's and 9800 pros have been sold at a loss to remain competitive, The reason these cards are made cheaper is because they are expecting and hoping they will be big sellers will be the cheaper cards to produce,

obviously this chip/pcb is much cheaper to produce and make aprofit off of, I think because its mainstream, It has to be profitable for for the IHV to sell. There are reason cards like the 5700/5700/9600 exist, Rather than more expensive 9500 Non pro, 9500 Pros, ect, The PCB/Memory layout becomes alot more expensive.

Independent manufacturers dont like this, I see people complaining, Yet this cards performance seems to fall exactly in line with what you'd expect, And I see this every generation, There are older high end cards which happen to possibily be a better value than new mainstream cards, This isnt a shock, But this is just how things work.

I really dont expect to see 256 bus mainstream (unless its done to be competitive) For a while if they can get away with it.

Cost is sound reason for the memory interface at 128 bit. There is no debate about that. However reading your posts, I thought you leaning towards the poopooing of having 256 bit memory interface on mainstream cards because for some reason you thought this sector didn't deserve it. I do own a 5700U and I am sorry but 4X AA is just not usable most of the times, it a question of tweaking in game settings (se my 5700U review). Even at the bog standard 1024 by 768 res, 4X aa isn't usable on some games..like Far Cry, X2, UT2k3 to name a few..heck my 9700 pro had a hard time on it. Just a lil more for the mainstreams is all i am saying. If i was a mainstream owner, i would love to be able to use 4X AA and for that bandwidth is king and 256 bit memory inteface is neccesary. I am surpised that a 256 bit memory interface would still cost that much more to implement/manufacture over a 128 bit over this far into the introduction of 256 bit memory interface.