Not just protesters on the political "left"

[Son Goku]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/abortviolence/stories/gunn.htm

PENSACOLA, FLA., MARCH 10 -- A doctor was shot to death outside his abortion clinic here today when a man who prayed for the physician's soul stepped forward from a group of antiabortion protesters and opened fire, according to police and witnesses.

David Gunn, 47, was shot three times in the back after he got out of his car at the Pensacola Women's Medical Services clinic, according to Pensacola police. He died during surgery at a local hospital.

While abortion providers routinely are threatened with death, and their clinics have been bombed and vandalized, the killing here is believed to be the first in the nation's ongoing struggle over abortion.

This morning, police initially were called to simply squelch an antiabortion protest at the clinic. When they arrived, police said, Michael Frederick Griffin, 31, of Pensacola told them he had just shot Gunn.

Griffin, dressed in a gray suit, quietly surrendered to police, who said they took his .38-caliber snub-nosed revolver. Griffin was arrested and charged with murder and is being held in Escambia County jail.

Don Treshman, head of the antiabortion group Rescue America in Houston, told the Associated Press that Griffin yelled "Don't kill any more babies," just before the shooting this morning.

Treshman said several members of his group attended the protest and called him afterward to relate details of the incident.

Steve Powell, an employee at an office park where the clinic is located, told reporters that Griffin singled out the physician as his target, chased him and shot him at point-blank range.

Powell said the protesters acted strangely after the shooting. "It looked like they were just happy," he said.

On Sunday, at a service attended by protest organizers and participants, Griffin reportedly asked the congregation to pray for Gunn's soul.

"He asked that the congregation pray, and asked that we would agree with him that Dr. Gunn would give his life to Jesus Christ," said John Burt, an organizer of today's protest and a lay preacher at Whitfield Assembly of God Church.

"He wanted him to stop doing things the Bible says is wrong and start doing what the Bible says was right," Burt told reporters.

"There's talk of making protesting abortion clinics a felony. If you start talking about that, people are just going to find other ways of dealing with it," Burt said.

On Christmas Day 1984, two doctors' offices and a clinic in Pensacola were bombed by abortion foes who were convicted and imprisoned.

Burt emphasized that the protesters today had no intention of harming the doctor.

Gunn opened his clinic here about a month ago. He apparently commuted here from Eufaula, Ala., which is several hundred miles away. His new clinic, nestled among offices for lawyers, doctors and accountants, bore no signs and simply advised patients at Suite 46 to come upstairs and sign in.

Before Gunn arrived, there was only one clinic performing abortions in Pensacola, although there are at least three facilities that offer "abortion counseling" to women, in which antiabortion advocates try to persuade them to seek alternatives to terminating their pregnancies.

It is common for antiabortion activists to pray, chant, whistle and scream at abortion providers and women as they enter abortion clinics. The protesters may ask the women to consider alternatives to abortion, such as adoption, and often accompany their appeals with photos of aborted fetuses. At the Pensacola clinic today, protesters held up signs that said, "David Gunn Kills Babies."

The Supreme Court ruled in January that federal judges cannot stop protesters from trying to block access to clinics, although antiabortion protesters routinely are arrested for trespassing on private property. Congress is considering legislation that would outlaw the protests.

"We call on Congress to immediately enact the Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances bill to combat antichoice terrorism and enact the Freedom of Choice Act to guarantee American women their legal right to choose," National Abortion Rights Action League President Kate Michelman said in a statement after the shooting.

Gunn had been receiving death threats for several years but they had recently become more blatant and vicious, Susan Hill, who employed the doctor at some of the National Women's Health Organization clinics she runs in the Southeast, told AP. The Pensacola facility was not one of hers.

Last summer in Montgomery, Ala., an old-fashioned "wanted" poster of Gunn was distributed at a rally for Operation Rescue leader Randall Terry, AP said. The poster included a picture of Gunn, his home phone number and other identifying information. The posters were designed to encourage abortion opponents to harass doctors working at clinics operated by Gunn in Alabama.

Margeaux Farrar, a spokeswoman for Operation Rescue, told AP the antiabortion organization knew nothing about the posters and had not printed them.

"Our commitment to the dignity of life stands for the born as well as the unborn," Keith Tucci, executive director of Operation Rescue, said in a news release expressing sorrow over Gunn's death.

The Rev. Joseph Foreman, an Operation Rescue founder, said the shooting could be the tip of the iceberg if the government silences abortion protesters.

"I've been saying for years that if the government insists on suppressing normal and time-honored dissent through injunctions, it turns the field over to the rock-throwers, the bombers and the assassins," AP quoted Foreman as saying.

[Sazar]

yes... we are pro-life... so we kill people to promote life... :wong:

wee... look @ me... I am so pro-life... :nanahump:

I come in peace :angel2:

[Ninja Prime]

yes... we are pro-life... so we kill people to promote life... :wong:

wee... look @ me... I am so pro-life... :nanahump:

I come in peace :angel2:

While I don't agree with the shooting, it could be seen as saving lives... killing Hilter in the first year of war probably would have saved millions, ect. ect. ect.

If you believe babies are living human beings, then it certainly could be seen as such.

Does anyone else see the irony in a man named david gunn getting shot?

[Saint Lucifer]

While I don't agree with the shooting, it could be seen as saving lives... killing Hilter in the first year of war probably would have saved millions, ect. ect. ect.

If you believe babies are living human beings, then it certainly could be seen as such.I don't think it will save any lives. It just means that David Gunn himself won't be performing abortions, but other doctors certainly will.

That article is from 1993, and I would imagine that someone took his place.
Does anyone else see the irony in a man named david gunn getting shot?I thought about saying something to that effect a while ago, but I figured I made enough arse-holish posts in a short period of time. :D

[PsychoSy]

While I don't agree with the shooting, it could be seen as saving lives... killing Hilter in the first year of war probably would have saved millions, ect. ect. ect.

Well -- using your logic -- I could argue that abortions save lives because an aborted fetus has absolutely NO CHANCE growing up and becoming ......... a doctor that conducts abortions! But such an argument wouldn't be logical (let alone reasonable).

[Ninja Prime]

Well -- using your logic -- I could argue that abortions save lives because an aborted fetus has absolutely NO CHANCE growing up and becoming ......... a doctor that conducts abortions! But such an argument wouldn't be logical (let alone reasonable).

That is a lame arguement. A baby inside the womb will without a doubt be born and be a person, there is no "chance" to it. An abortion is simply killing it early, if you believe a baby inside a womb is a human, which it will no doubt be. You argue that there is a very slight chance of a baby becoming a abortion doctor and thus could also kill more babies.

That is not the same logic. How is there a chance to my logic?

[Ninja Prime]

I thought about saying something to that effect a while ago, but I figured I made enough arse-holish posts in a short period of time. :D

+1 arsehole points for me! ;)

Also, 1993? I thought the point of this thread was "Republican protesters are bad too, they shoot people, see!" in response to comments in another thread that pointed liberal protesters seem like an un-educated mob. Digging up something 11 years old isn't exactly the same as something that happened a few days or weeks ago. :rolleyes:

[Son Goku]

It's not just one case in 1993...and it isn't just libs who can takes protests and certain actions to certain extremes...

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=209

An American fugitive sought for the assassination of a New York obstetrician was arrested in France in late March, just days after hard-line anti-abortion activists won a major court victory in California.

James Kopp, known to abortion protesters as "Atomic Dog," is accused of the October 1998 murder of Dr. Barnett Slepian, who provided abortions. Slepian had just returned from synagogue and was heating soup in his kitchen when he was gunned down in front of his wife and one son by a single sniper's bullet.

A hair found in the sniper's nest very closely resembled Kopp's, and Kopp's vehicle had been seen in the neighborhood weeks earlier.

Kopp also was wanted for the 1995 wounding of an abortion doctor in Canada, and is suspected in two other non-fatal attacks there. When he was arrested, Kopp apparently had been in France for three weeks and in Ireland for about a year before that.

In New York, officials almost simultaneously arrested convicted clinic bomber Dennis Malvasi and his wife, Loretta Marra, for allegedly sending money to Kopp and helping him evade an international dragnet.

Meanwhile, a federal appeals court in March overturned a $107 million judgment against anti-abortion activists who had gathered and posted on an Internet site detailed information about abortion doctors — data widely seen as useful only to an assassin.

The "Nuremburg Files" site, which carried photographs of doctors, the routes they took to work and more, crossed out the names of doctors — including Slepian's — as they were murdered.

In 1999, a jury found for Planned Parenthood and the other plaintiffs, ruling that the anti-abortion activists' activity amounted to illegal threats. But the appeals court found that "political speech may not be punished just because it makes it more likely that someone will be harmed at some unknown time in the future by an unrelated third party."

Also this spring, a nationwide manhunt continued for Clayton Waagner, an escaped convict who officials fear plans to murder physicians. Waagner stalked abortion doctors in several cities in 1999 before he was arrested that September and convicted on federal weapons charges. Waagner explained then that he had been going to Seattle to kill an abortion doctor.

"I would much rather be sitting on death row right now for having succeeded than sitting in some county jail for having failed."

Waagner escaped from an Illinois jail on Feb. 23. Officials say he was spotted in late March in Tennessee, apparently heading eastward.

[PsychoSy]

Crimony, Ninja -- even though you quoted me, you still didn't get it so I'm gonna walk you thru it. Here's what I said ...

Well -- using your logic -- I could argue that abortions save lives because an aborted fetus has absolutely NO CHANCE growing up and becoming ......... a doctor that conducts abortions!.

Since you didn't pay specific attention to detail, I took the liberty and highlighted those very details in dark blue. Pay specific attention to them -- there is a point and we don't want to lose it again, eh? ;)

Now, let's take your reply ...

A baby inside the womb will without a doubt be born and be a person, there is no "chance" to it.

Aside from an abortion, a miscarriage, or still born, you're right. But I wasn't talking about a LIVE baby at all. What part of "an aborted fetus" implied that idea?!? To the best of my knowledge, there's only one state an aborted fetus can exist in -- DEAD! That's it! That's the only one! And unlike such things as mold or mildew, dead people don't grow up (i.e. mature, evolve) because they simply can't -- people aren't organic!

An abortion is simply killing it early ...

True. No argument there.

You argue that there is a very slight chance of a baby becoming a abortion doctor and thus could also kill more babies.

Yep, that's exactly what I'm arguing! There is a chance -- however minute -- that the baby could grow up to be an abortion doctor, thus hypothetically putting many future lives at risk!

That is not the same logic.

Oh, yes it is! Same lame-ass logic -- just different piles! :D

How is there a chance to my logic?

Don't you get it yet -- neither of our arguments have any chance whatsoever. It's just extremism trumped by even more extremism. Your original empathetic argument regarding the death of this abortion doctor was ...

"it could be seen as saving lives ..."

In other words, your argument there is essentially "Save the fetus ... but if grows up to be an abortion doctor, somebody just mighthave to kill that doc in order to save future lives!" It's a lame ass argument because the whole "killing abortion doctors could be seen as saving lives" justification for blatant murder does more harm to the anti-abortion/pro-life movement than it helps. Why? Because that justification denotes that idea that there's room in the "Sanctity of Life" jargon for someone to commit murder. It implies that there's a degree where the sanctity -- the sacredness -- of human life simply ceases to be, thus murdering that person can be sociologically acceptable if not outright encouraged. As long as that's the true, the whole "Sanctity of Life" jargon that pro-life anti-abortionists preach is simply that -- hypocritical jargon!

That is a lame arguement.

That's the point! I matched your lame "let's kill this abortion doctor and save some future lives" argument with a "Why wait to see if that fetus becomes an abortion doc or not -- let's save some future lives by KILLING IT NOW!!" argument that's equally as lame!! Afterall, extremism begats extremism. ;)

Hay, I could get more extreme that that if you'd like -- my daughter is 3 years old. I don't have the faintest idea what she'll be when she grows up -- might be lawyer, an abortion doctor, or a garbage picker! Indeed, there's a chance for her to become any of those things. If she tells me 5-10 years from now that she wants to be an OBG/YN ................ should I kill her right then and there in order to save future lives or should I wait until she scrapes her first fetus? Better yet -- maybe I should kill her NOW and save the world (and that future fetus) the trouble, eh?!? Would that be logical and reasonable?!? ;)

*sharpening axe*

I await your answer with eager anticipation ... :angel: :p

[sytaylor]

my daughter is 3 years old.

WOW they grow up fast, i remember the baby pics! :)

[Ninja Prime]

Crimony, Ninja -- even though you quoted me, you still didn't get it so I'm gonna walk you thru it. Here's what I said ...

You don't need to. Either you're entirely insane and making some strange point that has nothing to do with what you or I posted or my original response was spot on. I won't give my guess which one it is... ;)

Aside from an abortion, a miscarriage, or still born, you're right. But I wasn't talking about a LIVE baby at all. What part of "an aborted fetus" implied that idea?!? To the best of my knowledge, there's only one state an aborted fetus can exist in -- DEAD! That's it! That's the only one! And unlike such things as mold or mildew, dead people don't grow up (i.e. mature, evolve) because they simply can't -- people aren't organic!

Uhhhhh... failing to see a point or purpose here...? You do know that for a "aborted fetus" to become aborted it has to be alive at one time, and someone has to kill it, right? Sooooo, I don't see where you are going with this, or what it has to do with what I said, or even what you said... :wtf:

Yep, that's exactly what I'm arguing! There is a chance -- however minute -- that the baby could grow up to be an abortion doctor, thus hypothetically putting many future lives at risk!

Ok... I got this part and it was taken into account back in my original response...

Oh, yes it is! Same lame-ass logic -- just different piles!

Unless your point was entirely different from what your post implied, the logic is entirely different.

How does the logic of "You are 100% certainly killing a baby by aborting it." Compare to "Yeah well, if you kill that baby, maybe it could possibly kill other babies, so you're saving lives or something." :wtf: :POKE:

Don't you get it yet -- neither of our arguments have any chance whatsoever. It's just extremism trumped by even more extremism. Your original empathetic argument regarding the death of this abortion doctor was ...

Hmmm... I think I am begining to see what happened here... I think you got my first post wrong and were somehow reading it into my second post or something? Empathetic? As I pointed out first, I don't agree with it. He's a killer. Period. So is the doctor though IMO, so meh. If one murder kills another, I don't care. If they kill each other, I don't care. If one kills the other and gets caught and gets the death penalty for it, that's justice for ya.

Murders killing murders isn't a big sad thing that pisses me off like a murder who kills innocent people.

In other words, your argument there is essentially "Save the fetus ... but if grows up to be an abortion doctor, somebody just mighthave to kill that doc in order to save future lives!"

I never said anything of the sort. I most certianly never argued anything of the sort. I think I'm seeing what happened here... You took my first comment out of context and added it to the second one and got some sort of custom arguement that exists only in your mind, not in what I wrote.

matched your lame "let's kill this abortion doctor and save some future lives" argument

So, you admit that your arguement was lame and we've established that I never had such an arguement, except in the confines of your mind, so... I was right originally? ;)

[Ninja Prime]

It's not just one case in 1993...and it isn't just libs who can takes protests and certain actions to certain extremes...

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=209

Again, I fail to see any protesters being morons and having a mob mentality here...? And this is still 1998, 6 years ago, how is this the same as something a few weeks ago?

[Son Goku]

Again, I fail to see any protesters being morons and having a mob mentality here...? And this is still 1998, 6 years ago, how is this the same as something a few weeks ago?

Killing doctors OK, hmm... No, what we got here is people committing murder in the name of their protest. And it wasn't just one or 2 incidents, this has happened again and again...over time.

But if you want something more recent, here's something I found last night. Dated from this year, and this guy wants to copy the sorts of actions associated with Islamic terrorists in his crusade against abortion clinics.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/US/WorldNewsTonight/antiabortion_violence_040122-1.html

tbh, I was expecting to find another case of a dead doctor last night, not this article. I wasn't sure how to present this, or if I would be going to far to do so. Some snippets.

An anti-abortion activist, calling for a new wave of violence against clinics and doctors, is following the example of violent Islamic fundamentalists, telling those who share his views to become "Christian terrorists" and promising them a reward in Heaven.

"As cream rising to the top of the milk, so the Christian terrorist rises above the huddled masses of churchgoers and the many voices which denounce their violent attempts to defend the innocent from they're [sic] murderous assailants," Chuck Spingola wrote in a posting on the Army of God Web site.

"Regarding abortion the separation is clear. The CT [Christian terrorist] has the Word of God and a testimony of loving, albeit terrifying [to the wicked], actions," he said.

Of of his planed activities included mass mailing anthrax to an abortion clinic, as mentioned here:

Waagner was convicted of threatening to use a weapon of mass destruction for mailing letters containing what appeared to anthrax to dozens of abortion clinics. Kopp was convicted of the 1998 murder of Dr. Barnett Slepian, who performed abortions in Buffalo, N.Y. Rudolph, the suspect in bombings at a Birmingham, Ala., abortion clinic and at the 1996 Atlanta Olympics, is awaiting trial.

Wagner's take on much of this?

"The government of the most powerful country in the world considers me a terrorist," Waagner wrote. "That label set me aback at first. Then it struck me: They're right. I am a terrorist. To be sure, I'm a terrorist to a very narrow group of people, but a terrorist just the same. As a terrorist to the abortionist, what I need to do is envoke [sic] terror. Thus the reason I'm posting this letter. I wish to warn them that I'm coming."

Though Waagner, who took advantage of his freedom to send letters containing what appeared to be anthrax to dozens of abortion clinics in the fall of 2001, did not use the term "Christian terrorist," he did make clear that he believed he was on a mission from God.

"God did not rescue me from life in prison for my pleasure," he wrote. "He freed me that I might lay down my life for His will. He freed me to make war on His enemy. He freed me to make war on those who profit from the merciless murder of His children. And a war it shall be."

From this, it would seem we've got more then some roudy protesters on our hands. At least in Wagner's case (and are there others) it seems we've got a right wing terrorist on our hands... I was not expecting to find that last night, tbh

[PsychoSy]

I think you got my first post wrong and were somehow reading it into my second post or something?

First, you condemned the killing the doctor. No argument there.

Empathetic?

Your next sentance was borderline empathetic:

but it could be seen as saving lives

Gee, did that really need to be dignified? Wonderful! Now, the extremist, pro-life terrorist wing of fundamentalist Christianity -- much like their Islamic cousins -- have a convenient basis for justifying murder. A justification they don't really need, of course, but they'll gladly take one if we're stupid enough to give 'em one (saves them the touble of making one up of their own and claiming, "God told us!!")

Keep in mind, I think both the pro-life and pro-choice arguments are garbage and the people among them are simply FOS, okay? I mean, you got the kneejerk pro-life selfish conservatives that don't want their tax dollars to help feed 'em, to help school 'em, to give him health care etc. on one hand and you got the spineless, bourgeois pro-choice liberals that can't divorce their degenerate, uneducated "Everquest" lives away from the PC long enough to raise 'em into somebody that's worth a damn on the other!! In other words, two idiotic agenda-driven groups fighting tooth and nail over essentially the same thing -- which one is more qualified for the expressed right in deciding who gets to live and who gets to die!

My stance on the matter?

None of 'em do. Simple as that! :)

[Ninja Prime]

Your next sentance was borderline empathetic:



Gee, did that really need to be dignified? Wonderful! Now, the extremist, pro-life terrorist wing of fundamentalist Christianity -- much like their Islamic cousins -- have a convenient basis for justifying murder. A justification they don't really need, of course, but they'll gladly take one if we're stupid enough to give 'em one (saves them the touble of making one up of their own and claiming, "God told us!!")

Personally I do think it needed to be dignified. Just a reminder that there are no tears those to willingly take lives for profit. Is it un-true? Is it false that some people could see it that way? No. So, wheres the beef? I liked this part the best:

"Now, the extremist, pro-life terrorist wing of fundamentalist Christianity -- much like their Islamic cousins -- have a convenient basis for justifying murder."

*gasp!* Now that I've said this on the NvNews message board the whole world has changed! Now, all anti-abortion crazies will say "yeah well, that one time Ninja Prime said "meh" that makes it alright." and then amendments will proceed to be passed that legalize the killing of abortion doctors! Oh Noes! ;)

[Ninja Prime]

Killing doctors OK, hmm... No, what we got here is people committing murder in the name of their protest. And it wasn't just one or 2 incidents, this has happened again and again...over time.

You're sooooo full of crap. You're trying to say that murders are protesters in a way? You're just pissed that a different thread that clearly showed liberal protesters from what they really generally consist of: Morons with no clue who are hypocritical to the core. Now you're grasping at straws that have no relation to protesters to try and make republicans look evil. :rolleyes: :lame:

Are Islamic terrorists "protesters" in your opinion? Are the guys cutting off heads in Iraq just "protesters?" :rolleyes:

[-=Gib-McFragger=-]

(popcorn)

I am not even going to get involved in this one.........

[Son Goku]

You're sooooo full of crap.

No, you are full of crap so long as you try to insinuatate that moronic protestors exist only on the left :lame: There are lame brains in both political parties, and there are protestors with certain behaviour on both sides. Hell, someone who is liberal or conservative in many of their ideas (such as with abortion) doesn't always fall down strick Democrat/Republican lines in all cases. Believe what you want, it's of no consequence to me.

You're trying to say that murders are protesters in a way?

If you would have read some of these links, you would have seen quite clearly that they among the protestors when committing murder.

PENSACOLA, FLA., MARCH 10 -- A doctor was shot to death outside his abortion clinic here today when a man who prayed for the physician's soul stepped forward from a group of antiabortion protesters and opened fire, according to police and witnesses.

That's just one example. And no where did I say that murders are protesters, you said that. I would appreciate it if you would refrain from putting words in my mouth. However that some anti-abortion protestors committed murder during the protests (which there is no indication they were not a part of) is another matter entirely.

You're just pissed that a different thread that clearly showed liberal protesters from what they really generally consist of: Morons with no clue who are hypocritical to the core.

I guess the all seeing, all knowing Ninja Prime would be able to use his magic psychic powers to see if one is pissed or not :rofl

Are Islamic terrorists "protesters" in your opinion? Are the guys cutting off heads in Iraq just "protesters?" :rolleyes:

Again there's this putting words in another's mouth syndrome. Absolutely no where have I made the connection you're trying to imply I did...and this is almost not even worthy of a responce... But for one of these anti-abortion protesters to

Spingola's language is shocking, particularly when he seems to express solidarity with people such as members of Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda.

certainly suggests that in his mind, and perhaps some others, he (and perhaps some others) see themselves so identified.

But this is another case also, where if someone would have bothered to read the link, they would have also noticed comments such as

There is some question among academics and others who follow extremist movements in the United States about how seriously to take the rhetoric, particularly because none believe that such views are shared by more than, at most, a few hundred people.

"The hard-liners have become more and more hard-line, and I think they've lost most of their appeal even with the Christian right, which might share some of their views," said Mark Potok of the Southern Poverty Law Center, which monitors extremist movements.

It is not a view likely to be shared by more than a handful of the thousands expected to march today in Washington in the March for Life, an annual protest on the anniversary of the Supreme Court's 1973 Roe v. Wade decision that made abortion legal nationwide.

Mainstream anti-abortion groups such as the National Right to Life Committee have praised the arrests and convictions of people involved in violence against abortion providers and released a statement that the group "strongly opposes any use of violence as a means of stopping the violence that has killed more than 43 million unborn children since 1973."

[PsychoSy]

Personally I do think it needed to be dignified.

Personally, your dignification of it tells me that you're just one convenient fashion-of-thought away from merely condemning it socially to actually leading the charge one day. Afterall, the only people that would dignify such a thing (or see nothing wrong with it) are those people that publically denounce such evils as a means of saving face or appeasing the masses ... only to relish in them privately. Deep inside, they carry a torch for people who carry TNT into a doctor's office!!

Just a reminder that there are no tears those to willingly take lives for profit.

*looks at Halliburton*
*looks at the Patriot/Militia crowd*
*looks at ELF*

You sure got that right, pal, and I think it's a damn shame!

Hey, when it comes to terrorism, I'm not selective in defining it. ;)

Is it false that some people could see it that way? No. So, wheres the beef?

The beef?

Did it ever occur to you that -- between Islamo-fascists wanting to blow up this country one trade center at a time and Christo-fascists wanting to blow up this country one abortion clinic at a time -- there are people in this country that absolutely want no friggin' part of it? It's a damn shame that these peoples lives are being beset by minipulative, intolerant jagoffs day after day after day and having their lives put in danger by proxy.

*gasp!* Now that I've said this on the NvNews message board the whole world has changed! Now, all anti-abortion crazies will say "yeah well, that one time Ninja Prime said "meh" that makes it alright." and then amendments will proceed to be passed that legalize the killing of abortion doctors! Oh Noes! ;)

All I'm saying is at a time like this in this nation, we simply don't need to get "The Fetus Mafia" started again. Good christ ... at the rate this country is spiraling down the toilet of division and intolerance, I'm just gonna have to hide in a bunker somewhere. The last thing I need is to become an unwanton casuality to a suicide bombing at a Border's bookstore because the American suicide-bomber thought the joint was "too liberal" and "unpatriotic". ;)

It's a wonder such a thing hasn't happened yet! :D