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View Full Version : What Do you think? Tim Sweeney as good/better than carmack?


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Intel17
08-10-04, 10:03 PM
Ok, first off I have MUCH respect for John Carmack as it was his engines which powered many of the games i love and he is my personal hero,

But Carmack is showing an increasingly wavering interest in games and engines. He only came into the office 3 times a week during the development of Doom3, and he's having a kid soon and Aerospace is taking up his time.
Plus he may have only a few engines left in him and he might not even give them as much care as in his peak (quake3 engine). I mean Doom3 didnt advance much past the year 2002.

Tim Sweeney, has been producing excellent game engines (Unreal Engine 1 and 2 were the best at their time and still look good now), and Unreal Engine 3 is a real beast, boasting graphics which par CG quality and Epic Predicts their tech will be used in MOVIES within the next decade, and may even wipe out pixars technology.

So Sweeney is very ambitious and, has as much skill in my opinion as carmack,he also plans to reach photorealism eventually, carmack, isnt too keen about game engines anymore..

So I think Sweeney capability wise is as good as Carmack, but in ambition and goals...Sweeney definitely.

What do you think? Im not trying to start a flame war but I just want your opinions

Banko
08-10-04, 10:33 PM
Sweeney can write engines, but I think the ue2 has some curse, because the latest games haven't been that popular compared to the originals. Unreal 2 compare to Unreal 1, UT2k3/4 compared to UT 1.

Sazar
08-10-04, 10:35 PM
ut2k3 and ut2k4 were reasonably well-received..

Unreal 2 was a bit shoddy in more ways than 1... it wasn't BAD per se but it felt so much like Halo in many parts and it just didn't have much going for it :(

still I did enjoy parts of it...

jAkUp
08-10-04, 11:06 PM
I definetely think that carmack might be falling off... hopefull not since he always has/hopefully will continue to be/ my idol :) Sweeny is great too, but his engines just dont do me like Carmacks have :)

Skrot
08-11-04, 12:29 AM
id engines have always been superior than unreal engines. If only because they are fast as **** for the graphics quality. Unreal engines are always slow for the quality they show. There is just something about id's engines that no other engines can touch. I guess its the difference between good code, and great code.

WeReWoLf
08-11-04, 12:30 AM
I have always been a fan/always will be a fan of Tim Sweeny's projects, but Carmack wrote the engine for the first FPS and helped create the game that started my Love of FPS... Carmack will always be god in my books, but sweeny is catching up fast.

Son Goku
08-11-04, 03:35 AM
I wouldn't hold Sweeny in the same regard as I would Carmack. Saz probably knows why (if he read my PM), and some others might know as well. It had to do with Unreal, but beyond that a promise is a promise...

nVidi0t
08-11-04, 03:50 AM
Let's take the number of developers who adopt ID's engines and compare that to the number of developers who adopt unreal technology to power their new titles. Furthermore, look at the titles in each list and which are generally better games.

There's a reason Carmack is still God, and just wait until we see new titles using the Doom 3 engine.

DaveW
08-11-04, 06:57 AM
I'm not fan of Tim Sweeney. I'm still emotionally scared over trying to play Unreal on a Riva TNT all those years ago.

Kamel
08-11-04, 07:01 AM
i will not deny that the unreal engines are nice, but i personally think that as far as modding is concerned, the quake style engines carmack makes are much easier to work with. not to mention, it's not just about graphics -- opengl support for unreal engines suck. i wish they would start developing in opengl, then i would have plenty of man secks with them :nanahump: :nanahump: :nanahump:

majortom
08-11-04, 07:22 AM
i think s --weenie's engine is crappy in relation to the output (ie what i see in comarison to what is processed). plus, the ut games (except unreal1 and ut) all pretty much suck and get old after a short time. carmack, actually id, has always been a leader at the forefront of gaming both in technology and in gameplay, and will continue to do so as long as carmack cranks out the engines.
having said that, the unreal engine 3 looks sweet, and it would be a real shame if it turned out to play like another unreal2. epic has to get better people to create a good single player story.

WeReWoLf
08-11-04, 07:33 AM
They'll probably go the ID route and hire a sci-fi writer to come up with a new storyline.

Intel17
08-11-04, 08:45 AM
Epic didn't make Unreal 3 ;)

And they're new SP game set to come out in 2006 is not based in the unreal universe but a new one. plus according to PCZone we're getting an Unreal Engine 3 UT game in 2006 also!

Well Carmack's stuff runs very well and have great playability, but i think rendering wise, Sweeney is just as capable as Carmack, but Sweeney is more determined :)

But JC will be in my book as the most influential programmer ever.

Skrot
08-11-04, 09:00 AM
Well Carmack's stuff runs very well and have great playability, but i think rendering wise, Sweeney is just as capable as Carmack, but Sweeney is more determined :)How do you mean sweeney is more determined? What grounds do you have to say this on?

Vash
08-11-04, 09:29 AM
I've got a lot of respect for both Sweeny and Carmack, but I hold Carmack in higher regard. Sweeny is very talented, and his engines look great, but they are no where near as compact and efficient as Carmack's engines. They both make solid engines, but I think that Carmack's got the edge when it comes to efficiency.

saturnotaku
08-11-04, 09:32 AM
Jason Hall 0wnZ all of j00!

Zelda_fan
08-11-04, 10:19 AM
Unreal3 looks better than anything I've ever seen, but I'm sure Carmack has something up his sleeve for his next-gen engine.

gigapower
08-11-04, 10:27 AM
Sweeny's code is crap compaired to Carmacks. Unreal does a lot of things half assed and illogical, and don't even get me started on Unreal Script.

|JuiceZ|
08-11-04, 10:31 AM
I've got a lot of respect for both Sweeny and Carmack, but I hold Carmack in higher regard. Sweeny is very talented, and his engines look great, but they are no where near as compact and efficient as Carmack's engines. They both make solid engines, but I think that Carmack's got the edge when it comes to efficiency.

Agreed. The impact Carmack & the early guys @ ID have made on the fps game industry will not be surpassed for yrs to come. :thumbsup:

Btw don't be to hard on Epic guys, the worse game in the Unreal series, U2, was developed by Legend & even after that, the XMP addon isn't very bad. Unreal 1, UT & UT2004 are all awesome in their own regard. They've been around for quite sometime now, Cliffyb, Mark & the boys are quite respected :cool:

Here's to the U3 engine & Carmack really taking us to Mars! :beer:

LycosV
08-11-04, 12:13 PM
I try not to give too much belief in ANY company figurehead (Sweeny, Carmack, etc.) as being the sole reason a game comes out looking, and playing the way it does. History has shown that it's never one guy who makes something work, but it's the boss who get's his name on the patents. Thomas Edison being an excellent example.

That being said, I think they're both great programers, but I think that Sweeny (or his team) has the vision. Id has only ever made one kind of game: monsters from hell, with colors of brown, red, and black. Epic has made planetary vistas with stary skies, waterfalls, lush grass, indoor temples, and spaceships. Epic sees the future of a game engine as shown by what they say about the Unreal Engine 3, and what they've seen with the Unreal Engine 2. An engine can be made to run anything be it FPS, RPG, RTS, or simulator. Id has always been focused on FPSers. The Unreal engine IS the engine of the future, Doom III isn't going to change that, and Souce isn't going to change that. Epic isn't going to give up untill it is.

Also, someone said the Unreal engines ran like crap. Have you SEEN the framerates tou can get in UT2003/2004 with modern cards? Video companies are almost catering to make it run faster. Hundreds of fps at 1600x1200, that's NOT slow. And I don't care what frame rate I get in Quake 3, it's a generation below UT2003/2004, just like I don't care what kind of fps I can get in Duke3D.

majortom
08-11-04, 12:34 PM
i think sweeny and carmack should combine their talents and create the ultimate game engine, a gamer's wet dream.....

Riptide
08-11-04, 12:54 PM
i think sweeny and carmack should combine their talents and create the ultimate game engine, a gamer's wet dream.....
To many cooks in the kitchen. No way would those two be able to work together.

killahsin
08-11-04, 01:24 PM
I dunno, when tim sweeny can code a game that runs as stable as a carmack engine from the ground up rather than relying on API releases and tricks. Than I will say he is as good as carmack.

Thats the main difference. Carmack and a few other people in the industry are the guy's API's follow. Sweeny is getting there, is he there yet? I don't think so, but he is very close.

superklye
08-11-04, 01:42 PM
To many cooks in the kitchen. No way would those two be able to work together.

Yeah, doesn't Carmack like rent out a hotel room and lock himself in for 6 months at a time while cranking out a new engine?

Kamel
08-11-04, 02:03 PM
it could be done [making the ultimate engine with them both] if there was a good coordinator that told each person what aspect of the game they need to make IMO.

of course, that isn't gonna happen. i don't think competition is as necessary in this case as it is in others; both of these guys have a passion for making new engines, so combining their talents would be almost possible, heh.

like i said though, that would be in a perfect world; which this is far from.