FX 5800 Ultra pwns FX 5700 Ultra

[ricercar]

Ok, so I have been playing Doom3 on a 5700 Ultra for about a week. I'm getting 14-24 fps at medium quality 1024x768. Good enough. Tonight I swap in one of my 5800 Ultras, and fps skyrocket to 42-60 fps, with a spurious 72 fps reported occasionally! The game flies! :clap:

I did't expect to double my fps. What's up? Can someone explain it in simple language, please? Guess I didn't pay enough attention to the old threads claiming that the NV30 has more raw _____ (¿fillrate?) than the NV35/38, despite the 128 bit memory bus, and now I want to know ....


XFX 5700 Ultra
PNY 5800 Ultra

SN41G2 nForce2 chipset / Barton 3000+ / 2x512M PC2700 Corsair TWINX
Liteon 52x CDRW&DVD / 2xWD1200 JB / 480W FSP group PSU

[Omega53]

The wind coming off the fan actually launches your computer into the future thus allowing you to draw frames before they even happen. This explains your 72fps even tho it is capped at 60.

[jAkUp]

The 5800 Ultra is clocked at 500mhz/1ghz... Although it only has a 128bit bus, it's clockspeeds are so high that it comes off being a decent performer with no aa/af :) If you bump that up to high quality the card will probably struggle since doom3 will automatically force 8xaf and I don't think the 128 bit bus will be able to cope :)

[Wylde]

you can still buy 5800s these days? I thought they stopped producing them

[msxyz]

I did't expect to double my fps. What's up? Can someone explain it in simple language, please? Guess I didn't pay enough attention to the old threads claiming that the NV30 has more raw _____ (¿fillrate?) than the NV35/38, despite the 128 bit memory bus, and now I want to know ....

The NV36 stands to the NV30/35 like the GeForce2MX stood to the Geforce2GTS

The original NV30 performs up to 8 Z/stencil operations simultaneously, where the NV36 only four. The 128bit bus is not a limiting factor during Z/stencil writes. But there is more: NVidia claims that the NV36 can render up to 4 pixels per clock cycle like the NV30/35 but only two of the pipelines appears to have loopback capabilities: in all the situations where multiple passes are needed (i.e trilinear filtering, multitextured surfaces) this card operates in a 2x2 configuration. This is also true for pixel shading ops, since only two of the pipelines appear to have shaders ALUs.

So, when you compare a fully fledged 4x2 card like the NV30 to a highly optimized 2x2 card you should see quite a difference in performance.

I suggest to try this fillratebenchmark on both card to see the difference: http://www.geocities.com/ndawinteractive/

[Lfctony]

Remember, the 5800U is a 4x2/8x0@500Mhz, while the 5700 is a 2x2/4x0@475Mhz. Thats more than double the fillrate. The plain 5800 is faster as well.

[zakelwe]

Yes it is all down to the 4x2 ( or 8x1 if you are feeling particularily generous today ) over the 4x1. Mind you the 5700U was a pretty good 4x1 implementation, far better than the 5600U IMO. Overclocked very well.

I'm still debating whether I should use 5800 or 9800 Pro for Doom3. The 9800 is faster normally but Doom3 seems to like nvidia cards, even the older ones.

Regards

Andy

[ricercar]

you can still buy 5800s these days? I thought they stopped producing themThey are long discontinued. Mine was purchased March 2003. I did see new FX 5800 cards offered last month while searching Pricewatch vendors for 6800 cards, but I haven't seen a new Ultra for a year.

Thanks for the tech explanantions, ppl. I probably understand only about 2/3, but I think i get the main points all right.

[mikechai]

It will be interesting to see 5800U vs 6600GT. 500/1000 vs 500/1000 and same fillrate in multi-texturing.
We'll be able to see the gain due to new and more efficient architecture.

[msxyz]

Mind you the 5700U was a pretty good 4x1 implementation, far better than the 5600U IMO. Overclocked very well.As I explained, most of the time it works as a plain 2x2. The vertex shading capabilities of this card are quite impressive, though, being on par with a NV35.

[ragejg]

Upcoming nvnews Gainward 6800NU review that I'm doing will feature 5800U as a compare card. Stay tuned. ;)

[jnd3]

It will be interesting to see 5800U vs 6600GT. 500/1000 vs 500/1000 and same fillrate in multi-texturing.
We'll be able to see the gain due to new and more efficient architecture.

I agree, I'm looking forward to this one ... looking at the raw specs, they're almost contenders ... except for almost twice the vertices per second on the 6600.

GeForce FX5800 Ultra
Memory Bandwidth: 16.0GB/sec.*
Fill Rate: 4 billion texels/sec.
Vertices per Second: 200 million
*Effective bandwidth value considering the data compression techniques used in GeForce FX

GeForce 6600 GT
Memory Bandwidth: 16.0 GB/sec.
Fill Rate: 4.0 billion texels/sec.
Vertices per Second: 375 million

[msxyz]

XFX released a 5700Ultra with GDDR3 at 500MHz and dual DVI. It would be nice to throw also this card in the upcoming review...

[ricercar]

Why the DDR3 version? Would it be worthwhile to compare the XFX 5700 Ultra with DDR II, just like the FX 5800 Ultra?

[msxyz]

DDR2 version is stock clocked at 450MHz and the RAM has different timing. 6600GT vs 5700U (same RAM, same frequency) would be a true apple 2 apple comparsion with the card it's going to replace.

[quik_2_win]

They are long discontinued...I did see new FX 5800 cards offered last month while searching Pricewatch vendors for 6800 cards, but I haven't seen a new Ultra for a year.

Nobody still sells 5800U's new, however, BFG has had some 'refurbs' in stock for quite a while here is a link:
http://www.chumbo.com/info.asp?s=MGX-10128958

...thinking $225 is a tad steep for a 'refurb'- no wonder they still have them!

[wshadow]

i have been playing doom3 on high quality with my evga 5800 ultra, it plays awesome, decent frame rates too:), i didnt dare try ultra tho its only a 128mb card :)

[Zeta]

Something must be wrong with that 5700 ultra. I have a 5700 U and a barton 2800+ and I run about 45fps (often going to 60fps). I am playing 800x600 with HIGH details, remember this uses 8x AF. I just dont see how your framerate is so low with medium detail. I really wanted to get a new video card before doom 3 came out but this card has proven its self and I think I can hold out until I go PCI express.

[ricercar]

I think part of it was using 53.03 drivers. Now that I finally got 61.77 stable on my machine, the 5700 Ultra performance seems to have improved from 14-24 to 29-54 fps.

[Greg]

The 5800 holds its own util it meets FX5900 and R9800. It is roughtly the same performance as the 5900XT, having slightly faster raw fill rate but slower fragment operations. Would certainly be prefered to the 5600 and 5700 which it nearly doubles in performance in some tests. However, it is no longer good value as a cheap out of stock product due to the current offerings.

[Daneel Olivaw]

-OT- Nice oc on that Tually 'msxyz', 33%!

[mezkal]

The wind coming off the fan actually launches your computer into the future thus allowing you to draw frames before they even happen. This explains your 72fps even tho it is capped at 60.

You've made my day. Nay you've made my whole week :) Why oh why can't there be more people here like you bro. Good humour is so wasted on these serious fools. ;)

[Hellion]

I just want to know WTF PWNED means...and why its neccesary to spell like that, does it mean Owned? if so WTF IS WITH THE P!? sorry about the spam, but i dont think it neccesary to start an entire thread just to ask a simple Q like this....

[ricercar]

pwned used for owned comes from a famous typo from somewhere that I can't recall. It's used to convey a hip connotation, to lighten the mood for everyone who doesn't need it explained. :angel2:

I titled the thread with "pwned" in humor, because as owner of both cards, I win and lose no matter which card is on top.

[Hellion]

lol, thanx. i thought it meant that, just making sure...besides noone should be afraid to ask any Q Ever no matter what it is. because you learn from a start right? i thought the L33T and words like that that i see in games all the time were beginning to take over. already you learn how to spell dog at 4, and by 16 everyone spells it Dawg. know what i mean? its not so much the fact that schools suck...its that we practicly devole as we get over because of the use of slang. If you dont believe me. go somewere that uses a different word for things and you start using it. It takes only 10 times to Form a Habit, but it takes aproxximatly 32 times to Break it. point ? yes, no?

Ah well, back to topic. Do you OverClock? like cpu and things in general? because if your looking for more FPS and your cards limit is tapped, ive noticed a 500 point difference between 2.8 stock and 3.5 OC P4 prescott on 3DMARK03, not too proud, but my highest score when i had my 5900se was like 6324, Heres a link if you wanna see. Linky (http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=2645547) :lame: Prob is i was messing around with clock speeds. so i took off the rest of the settings so i could do it faster, and i practicly hit myself when i achieved my highest score and only HALF ASS results.