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View Full Version : 6800 GT, Forceware, and widescreen help


jmacdonald801
08-13-04, 11:08 AM
Well I gought a PNY Verito 6800 GT. I must say, I am really damn impressed with it. It overlcoked in Doom 3 to 440/1100 without issue.

Anyhow I have a 50" Samsung DLP, and I'm having issues with this new card.

It works just fine at the native resolution of 1280x720 but it's the scaling options in the device adjustments that just don't work. Now I have a widescreen HP laptop with a 5600 in it and the widescreen scaling with the 61.77 drivers works great, but not on my toasty new 6800 GT.

If I select anyting other than "monitor scaling" the screen just goes bonkers. It's hard to describe really. But it is so garbled I have to reboot into safe mode and reload the drivers.

I've tried the 61.77, 62.xx and the 65.xx drivers. With the 65.xx it is still garbled, just not as bad.

Is there a flatpanal scaling bug related to the 6800 series in the forceware drivers in general? Because the 61.77 scaling works great on my 5600 in the laptop so I don't know what to think.

Yes I'm using DVI, never had an issue on my old ti4600 on this screen. No issues with Radeon 9800 Pro which I just retired.

I really want adapter scaling while maintaining the correct aspect ratio :( :( :( or at least the ability to center the output, both of which just screw up the screen.

Any ideas?

JGene
08-14-04, 06:57 AM
Could be an EDID bug, but what particular resolution are you trying to run at?

jmacdonald801
08-14-04, 12:02 PM
Could be an EDID bug, but what particular resolution are you trying to run at?

This happens just in the desktop. Running native resolution to the samsung at 1280x720. As soon as select any other scaling mode other than "monitor scaling" and hit "OK" the screen instantly freaks out and is completely unreadable.

On the latest 65.xx driver the screen didn't immediately freak, but when I ran something fullscreen the image was still very corrupt.

This is so annoying. I have an INF file for my samsung but it didn't make any difference.

I can't be the only one on the planet with a 6800 hooked up to a DVI bigscreen who uses that output feature. That keep aspect ratio is great for games that don't support the proper resolution. It's why I dumped ATI and now it doesn't work.

JGene
08-14-04, 09:37 PM
Oh, I see what your problem is. I was (maybe still?) having that problem with the 62.xx series drivers. If I chose anything other than "monitor scaling" my HDTV would display the message "out of scan range" which means the GeForce 6800 was trying to feed it something over 85Hz. My solution was to use the 61.76 and 61.77 drivers.

That said I've never tried to run anything other than monitor scaling because of the above issue. Actually I FINALLY solved the issue in my signature, but that's another story...

SpiderWoW
08-15-04, 07:12 AM
maybe its worth a try to overrule screen resolution refresh frequencies fix to 60 hz on every resolution ?!

jmacdonald801
08-15-04, 11:29 AM
maybe its worth a try to overrule screen resolution refresh frequencies fix to 60 hz on every resolution ?!

The screen doesn't say out of sync. My samssung will just say no signal, same diff. The picture is actually just distored. The samsung won't display anything over about 76hz at all so I don't think ti's arefresh issue. I am going to to try that tho, but I though all the resolutions were already fixed at 60hz because of the DVI.

Any widescreen users try anything other than monitor scaling yet on a 6800 ????

JGene
08-15-04, 02:36 PM
Can you force all the resolutions to 60Hz? How well does 1280x720@60Hz work for you?

I wonder what the drivers are thinking your maximum resolution is because when you try different scaling modes it tries to pass a virtual window of your highest resolution to the monitor. The virtual desktop window then lets you pan around within your desktop. If the drivers think your refresh rate can be higher than it really is, then maybe the drivers passing a refresh rate to your monitor that it cannot support is the problem.

But when you say the screen is distorted is it just blurry or does it have bands of focus and not in focus?

SpiderWoW
08-15-04, 06:44 PM
The screen doesn't say out of sync. My samssung will just say no signal, same diff. The picture is actually just distored. The samsung won't display anything over about 76hz at all so I don't think ti's arefresh issue. I am going to to try that tho, but I though all the resolutions were already fixed at 60hz because of the DVI.

Any widescreen users try anything other than monitor scaling yet on a 6800 ????

maybe i dont understand you correctly, what is that "scaling feature" of the driver - i dont know about that feature and i am using all coolbits enabled detonator/forceware features. i myself use HDTV with the 6800 on my beamer (1280x720) without a prob, but i am not using that scaling of the driver you mentioned. i only use video overlay from time to time but most of the time i switch primary monitor mode over to the beamer. both modes are working great for me.

JGene
08-15-04, 09:01 PM
maybe i dont understand you correctly, what is that "scaling feature" of the driver - i dont know about that feature and i am using all coolbits enabled detonator/forceware features. i myself use HDTV with the 6800 on my beamer (1280x720) without a prob, but i am not using that scaling of the driver you mentioned. i only use video overlay from time to time but most of the time i switch primary monitor mode over to the beamer. both modes are working great for me.

I'm going from memory but there are four scaling methods available under the "Flat Panel Display" flyout tab in the ForceWare Drivers.

1. Display Adapter scaling: Scales the output resolution using the video card (via drivers)
2. Centered Output: Sticks your output resolution in the center of your display. Be prepared for BIG black borders if you run a low resolution, ie 1024x768 on a monitor that supports 1600x1200.
3. Monitor Scaling: The video card does not touch the output resolution at all and lets your monitor scales the output resolution accordingly.
4. Fixed Aspect ratio Scaling: The video card scales the output resolution according to the aspect ratio such that if you output 1920x1080 you can knock it down to 1280x720 (16:9) instead of 1280x1024 (4:5).

jmacdonald801
08-15-04, 11:22 PM
I'm going from memory but there are four scaling methods available under the "Flat Panel Display" flyout tab in the ForceWare Drivers.

1. Display Adapter scaling: Scales the output resolution using the video card (via drivers)
2. Centered Output: Sticks your output resolution in the center of your display. Be prepared for BIG black borders if you run a low resolution, ie 1024x768 on a monitor that supports 1600x1200.
3. Monitor Scaling: The video card does not touch the output resolution at all and lets your monitor scales the output resolution accordingly.
4. Fixed Aspect ratio Scaling: The video card scales the output resolution according to the aspect ratio such that if you output 1920x1080 you can knock it down to 1280x720 (16:9) instead of 1280x1024 (4:5).

Only number 3 works. 1,2, and 4 all work on my widscreen laptop with the 61.77 driivers on the 5600 chip.

JGene
08-16-04, 02:42 AM
Same with me, or at least with the older drivers that I had. I just had one other guy e-mail me about this problem and he ended up returning his GeForce 6800 GT because it didn't work for him.

walkndude
08-16-04, 06:29 AM
Jgene you need to remember that his samsung is a dlp NOT an lcd display, two absolutely different animals -its not constructed with any panels whatsoever...

When using your dlp as a monitor it should treated the same as a crt monitor actually, if your having problems with a garbled display more likely than not the color wheel is unable to run at the speed necessary to sync with the signal it is receiving.

What I dont understand is why you believe you need to scale anything to get a proper aspect ratio as the samsung unit has an internal scaler that you cannot circumvent anyways. If you feed the display anything other than a 1280*720 signal you'll lose 1:1 pixel mapping and pq will suffer -not to mention the samsung's onboard scaler is going to be able to do a much better job than any of the video cards you've mentioned...

Maybe if you explain what your trying to acomplish jmacdonald, I can help.

jmacdonald801
08-16-04, 10:45 AM
Jgene you need to remember that his samsung is a dlp NOT an lcd display, two absolutely different animals -its not constructed with any panels whatsoever...

When using your dlp as a monitor it should treated the same as a crt monitor actually, if your having problems with a garbled display more likely than not the color wheel is unable to run at the speed necessary to sync with the signal it is receiving.

What I dont understand is why you believe you need to scale anything to get a proper aspect ratio as the samsung unit has an internal scaler that you cannot circumvent anyways. If you feed the display anything other than a 1280*720 signal you'll lose 1:1 pixel mapping and pq will suffer -not to mention the samsung's onboard scaler is going to be able to do a much better job than any of the video cards you've mentioned...

Maybe if you explain what your trying to acomplish jmacdonald, I can help.


The 6800's (if it worked) scaler is superior in my opinion. The Sammy's scaler won't adjust properly for 4:3 aspect ratio. Using the video cards scaler I can extend the image all the way to the overscan area. It makes using resolutions like 640x480 and 800x600 in some games look much better. For console games it looks better like that because the games are designed with the overscan in mind (i.e. emulators)

The samsung won't physically display ANY picture if it's out of scaning range, I've tried this with powerstrip. Above 76hz it will display nothing, under 76hz it displays pristine. As I've said before it's not the samsung (mostly sure), because with the 65.xx drivers I actually do get a partial picture that is recognizable when using adapter scaling, or aspect ratio corrected scaling. So 61.xx and 65.xx drivers have a both broken yet different reaction to trying to use the display adapter scaling.

For example. under 61.xx, as soon as I press the OK button using any scaling mode other than "monitor scaing", the display immediately freaks out (which it shouldn't anyway until I switch resolutions). Under 65.xx, if I select an alternate scaling mode and press "OK" everything is ok, until I try to run an app fullscreen at 640x480, then that app is distorted, but not to the point I can't get back to the desktop.

So you see, the evidence point to a driver problem and a lack of implementation.

When it comes to DVI and scaling, the drivers/adapter should be able to handle this function without issue.

As for why I want this? Well because I have a lot of old games with fixed aspect ratios and I want the adapter to force scaling at 4:3 because the adapter does a much better job at it than the sammy. It also helps for emulators (nes, mame etc).

I have an original Samsung DLP and I don't think it has the Faruja (sp?) processor and mostly in "PC" mode it puts a thick black bar around the screen if I let it do it's own scaling, which is horrid in my opinion.

Anyhow I use to be able to do this just fine with the old ti and now I can't.

The question is, someone out there must have a 6800 with a 16:9 or 16:10 DVI connection display (DLP or LCD) and have tried these scaling modes.

No one has yet to come forward and actually say they have this configuraiton and succeeded in making it work.

As for scaling on the adapter, it should be no different wether it's DLP or LCD if I want to use the card to do the scaling, it should simple use the panels native resolution (and it does recognize the 1280x720) and scale it accordingly, which it doesn't.

Everything else with the card works great. I simply want the feature that use to work on the older generation cards because most content still isn't designed for widescreen and I hate it being stretched.

Doom 3 for example, I would love to use the custom 960x720 resolution to keep the 4:3 aspect ratio AND keep the 1:1 pixel ratio as you say. I can do this on my laptop just fine on the 5600. My latop is native at 1440x900 and I added a custom resolution of 1200x900 to keep the 4:3 aspet ratio for doom 3 and the cenetered output option for scaling works great. Not so on the 6800. Damn.

the 65.xx drivers have some nice features for HDTV's but they don't really work yet.

jmacdonald801
09-05-04, 10:57 PM
problem with device adjustments and different scaling modes fxied with drivers 65.90 and 66.00. However, 66.00 has terrible mipmapping I can't get around, and 65.90 causes other issues.

Anyone else tried the digital panel adjustments?