Look out, Europe! Here we come!!

[PsychoSy]

Hey, vampireuk! Tell your buddies to arm ourselves against a American invasion force if they want international law to be upheld, because Bush has all but to wipe his arse with international laws.

U.S.: 'Hague Invasion Act' Becomes Law

(New York, August 3, 2002)

A new law supposedly protecting U.S. servicemembers from the International Criminal Court shows that the Bush administration will stop at nothing in its campaign against the court, Human Rights Watch warned today.

U.S. President George Bush today signed into law the American Servicemembers Protection Act of 2002, which is intended to intimidate countries that ratify the treaty for the International Criminal Court (ICC). The new law authorizes the use of military force to liberate any American or citizen of a U.S.-allied country being held by the court, which is located in The Hague. This
provision, dubbed the "Hague invasion clause," has caused a strong reaction from U.S. allies around the world, particularly in the Netherlands.

In addition, the law provides for the withdrawal of U.S. military assistance from countries ratifying the ICC treaty, and restricts U.S. participation in United Nations peacekeeping unless the United States obtains immunity from prosecution. At the same time, these provisions can be waived by the president on
"national interest" grounds.

"The states that have ratified this treaty are trying to strengthen the rule of law," said Richard Dicker, director of the International Justice Program at Human Rights Watch. "The Bush administration is trying to punish them for that."

Dicker pointed out that many of the ICC's biggest supporters are fragile democracies and countries emerging from human rights crises, such as Sierra Leone, Argentina and Fiji.

The law is part of a multi-pronged U.S. effort against the International Criminal Court. On May 6, in an unprecedented move, the Bush administration announced it was "renouncing" U.S. signature on the treaty. In June, the administration vetoed continuation of the U.N. peacekeeping force in Bosnia in an effort to obtain permanent immunity for U.N. peacekeepers. In July, U.S.
officials launched a campaign around the world to obtain bilateral agreements that would grant immunity for Americans from the court's authority. Yesterday, Washington announced that it obtained such an agreement from Romania.

However, another provision of the bill allows the United States to assist international efforts to bring to justice those accused of genocide, war crimes or crimes against humanity - including efforts by the ICC.

"The administration never misses an opportunity to gratuitously antagonize its allies on the ICC," said Dicker. "But it's also true that the new law has more loopholes than a block of Swiss cheese."

Dicker said the law gives the administration discretion to override ASPA's noxious effects on a case-by-case basis. Washington may try to use this to strong-arm additional concessions from the states that support the court, but Dicker urged states supporting the ICC "not to fall into the U.S. trap: the law does not require any punitive measures."

Human Rights Watch believes the International Criminal Court has the potential to be the most important human rights institution created in 50 years, and urged regional groups of states, such as the European Union, to condemn the new law and resist Washington's attempts to obtain bilateral exemption
arrangements.

The law formed part of the 2002 Supplemental Appropriations Act for Further Recovery from and Response to Terrorist Attacks on the United States.

SOURCE:
http://www.hrw.org/press/2002/08/aspa080302.htm

[vampireuk]

how did that moron get into office? Theres no real words to say what im thinking about this. How can you give immunity to any soldier? they have to be held accountable or everything just goes to sh*t. This means they could murder and rape and they can get away with it.

Excuse me while I go vomit:mad:

Edit: actually reading that made me feel sick why is this man in the office? Get him out before he screws everything up:mad:

[DaveW]

So to recap, the USA says:

"The environment is everyone else problem, but not ours, since cutting back on greenhouse gas emmissions would inconvenience us." - Kyoto Treaty

"Nobody can develop an effective defense against nuclear weapons, except us, since we now have the technology to do so, we are the exception." - ABM Treaty

"Nobody can commit violations of human rights, and people who do (like Molosovich) must be brought to justice before the international community... except our troops, who you will just have to trust to be well behaved." - ICC Treaty

and

"When you sign a treaty it means that you are committed to what it says, except us, who will break a treaty whenever it suites us" - All of the above.


Is it any wonder that the rest of the world sees the US as being arrogant? And Bush is the man causing it.

[Smokey]

Yes I would say thats why I hate the US. Not the common public, but the government. How do things like this happen? Arent governments meant to be working for the people? Is this what the American public wants? As has already been made clear, this is sickening to read about that sort of stuff, I have nothing else to add.


Smokey

[sytaylor]

There is absolutley no need for this act... america are a nation just liek everyone else, not an all powerful father figure... we can't allow this double standard to continue Bush is under the impression that because america do have such a big influence he can place his toy soldiers in any position to get his way...

this is a huge mistake, nobody can underestimate the "nay saying" power of the EU... hell the EU let the french get away with blockading british beef without fine becuase "it helped inter-union nation communications". So i seriously cannot see the EU standing for this, not even blair (who is believe it or not more in the Unions pocket than Bush's). I just hope the EU do stand up to america and MAYBE Bush will take the shot to the balls and slow up with his gun toting...

As a state leader he's quite competant but the problem with being a nation leader is you aren't accountable only for yourself, you have to think of others... something he is incapeable of!

[2fast4u]

here's the deal ... bush as a person is truly incapable of wtf he needs to do but therefore he is a total puppet of his companies and advisors.

this act undermines all international law while the united states claims to fight for democracy in the world. the one thing europe now needs to do is stand up united against the usa's government's imperialisitc actions. its just just one more step to the usa trying to become a total world dominator (even more than today).

now how the hell is it possible that millions of ppl in the united states sit around and let this be? and how is it possible for europe's leaders to sit around and let his happen.

the fact that a country has the most military force doesnt make their actions right, its the opposite ...

[volt]

Please don't get this thread get out of hand, and please THINK before you reply. :)

[vampireuk]

I was gonna say that myself:), we dont need a good thread to be closed because of a few stupid remarks

This law is really stupid though Bush should learn that he needs the UN and Europe and should stop giving the finger to every country because he thinks he can:mad:

[PsychoSy]

Brilliant reply awards to you all for hitting the nail right on the head. :D :)

DaveW}

It's sad really to see Bush as President from that standpoint because everyone in his administration is one of Poppy's friends. Dubbya has nobody to call his own - no real close personal friend in his administration, like a mate from college or from growing up. Sure, he might refer to the people in his administration as "friends" but I think that stems from a "a friend of my Dad is a friend of mine" approach, and it's foolishly leading Dubbya to be in a state where they can affix puppet strings and tug on them. You don't give someone faith and trust just because he was a "friend of my Dad". These people should have to earn it the old fashioned way, and that is the heart of the problem with this Bush II administration - they are trying use strategies that worked 10-12 years ago under Poppy Bush for all of today's world problems.

It won't work because the world is much different beast now.

And I think we both know that Dubbya better watch his P's and Q's lest he figures out first hand just exactly what another nation won't let him get away with, especially China. If Bush thinks that he can just waltz into China or perhaps Ireland armed only with supicion and this Hague clause, he's going to be in for big surprise.

[vampireuk]

I think he would get a serious shock if he tried to go into any country with armed troops, most countrys may stay quiet on his foreign policys but I seriously doubt they would let anyone walk over them like that. If it carries on this way god knows what is going to happen =\

I agree with 2fast4u its time for Europe to stand up to these bully boy tactics and tell them that they wont work and this is not the way to act in a "civilised" society especially for a world leader.

[Matthyahuw]

/me rethinks his stance on the Bush Presidency :confused:

[LORD-eX-Bu]

I think this is great! When I am in the military and we fight a country, lets say Iraq, and we win. I don't want to have to go to no biased-socialist court that will convict me and send me to prison for winning a war or a conflict. The losers are the ones that are supposed to pay and suffer, not the victors. The way I see it, our military carries so many other countries on its back by ensuring their wellbeing, since we do all the work, we should be exempt from stupid international courts which should have no jurisdiction over us to begin with. Thats my two cents.

[DaveW]

If... I... that... but.... oh never mind

[LORD-eX-Bu]

Originally posted by DaveW
If... I... that... but.... oh never mind

Thats right.

[vampireuk]

Originally posted by |TX|-LORD-EX-BU


Thats right.

and are you going to offer a opinion at some point?

[Matthyahuw]

Chill out EX-BU, you don't need to start a flame war in EVERY thread...:rolleyes:

[LORD-eX-Bu]

Originally posted by vampireuk


and are you going to offer a opinion at some point?

Already did, unless you think my opinion is fact and you want me to give you an opinion on my opinion.:p

[LORD-eX-Bu]

Originally posted by Matthyahuw
Chill out EX-BU, you don't need to start a flame war in EVERY thread...:rolleyes:

I haven't said anything to start a flame war.

[DaveW]

The opinion you posted is inflamatory, which is why I changed my mind about responding to it.

[vampireuk]

no but I've noticed so far when someone offers a opinion differing to yours all you do is contradict them without even offering a word of your own opinion thats bound to get peoples backs up

[2fast4u]

Originally posted by |TX|-LORD-EX-BU
I think this is great! When I am in the military and we fight a country, lets say Iraq, and we win. I don't want to have to go to no biased-socialist court that will convict me and send me to prison for winning a war or a conflict. The losers are the ones that are supposed to pay and suffer, not the victors. The way I see it, our military carries so many other countries on its back by ensuring their wellbeing, since we do all the work, we should be exempt from stupid international courts which should have no jurisdiction over us to begin with. Thats my two cents.

go easy, take off the clown's nose, get urself a cookie and listen to my wise words ...

there is no such thing as a socialist court, if u claim that europe's states have socialist economies u have no clue about europe. the so-called socialists in the big influence parties are nothing but a bunch of neoliberal dicks who claim to be socialists, but thats not the point right now. the ics is a friggin milestone in the history of international law, the only reason the united states is blocking it is they are afraid that their little international interventions will get their leaders before an international human rights court! and to tell u the truth, they are damn right!

so u do all the "work", eh? yep, ur military did some excellent work in iraq, iran, guatemala, chile, cuba, (list continuing endless). thats something to be proud of, my friend!

no matter how strong the us, it has NO right to sweep around the world and do whatever the hell it wants without expecting any consequences from their actions! NO ONE CAN!

have fun in the military, im sure lining up to fight for ur corporate masters and getting killed is fun. kthx.

[LORD-eX-Bu]

Originally posted by |TX|-LORD-EX-BU
I think this is great! ....The way I see it, our military carries so many other countries on its back by ensuring their wellbeing, since we do all the work, we should be exempt from stupid international courts which should have no jurisdiction over us to begin with. Thats my two cents.

There you go.

[vampireuk]

Originally posted by |TX|-LORD-EX-BU
I think this is great! When I am in the military and we fight a country, lets say Iraq, and we win. I don't want to have to go to no biased-socialist court that will convict me and send me to prison for winning a war or a conflict.

ahh here is the reply, ok I wish you would have stuck with "thats right":rolleyes: You think its great that troops can now get away with war crimes? You think its great that America treats itself differently from the rest of the world?

The losers are the ones that are supposed to pay and suffer, not the victors. The way I see it,

I see your racism coming out again, you believe that after a war the losers should suffer? What for protecting and serving their country? Say America got into a war and lost would you like it if you had to suffer everyday?

our military carries so many other countries on its back by ensuring their wellbeing, since we do all the work, we should be exempt from stupid international courts which should have no jurisdiction over us to begin with

oh and theres me seeing the British troops doing most of the work in afganistan, everyone knows it. The British are americas work horse when it comes to the military

Thats my two cents

I hope you end up broke soon:rolleyes: :p

[LORD-eX-Bu]

Originally posted by 2fast4u



so u do all the "work", eh? yep, ur military did some excellent work in iraq, iran, guatemala, chile, cuba, (list continuing endless). thats something to be proud of, my friend!

have fun in the military, im sure lining up to fight for ur corporate masters and getting killed is fun. kthx.

Yep, we do all the work. If it wasn't for us, Saddam would own Kuwait. If it wasn't for us the Mullahs would have launched a nuclear missile that they bought from the North Koreans at the US. I lived in Guatemala, it isn't too bad, and the US presence there does help keep things in what little order they may be. In Cuba we have a military base there, we kept Castro from getting those nukes there also, or you don't remember that? Kenedy was great, Cuba is the only communist nation in the western hemisphere, I think we can attribute that to the US. We have done much more, if it wasn't for the US military most of you europeans would be speaking german or russian. China would belong to the japanese, the japenese would have Australia and all those other nice little countries down in that area. If it wasn't for our military UBL would still be being protected by the Taliban government in Afghanistan, if it wasn't for us, the Taliban would still be executing innocent people in their soccer fields and doing god knows what to women and children.

I will enjoy my time in the military, I look forward to serving my country and upholding its standards, as well as my own, and protecting democracy anywhere I go. Rangers lead the way.

[LORD-eX-Bu]

Originally posted by vampireuk


ahh here is the reply, ok I wish you would have stuck with "thats right":rolleyes: You think its great that troops can now get away with war crimes? You think its great that America treats itself differently from the rest of the world?



I see your racism coming out again, you believe that after a war the losers should suffer? What for protecting and serving their country? Say America got into a war and lost would you like it if you had to suffer everyday?



oh and theres me seeing the British troops doing most of the work in afganistan, everyone knows it. The British are americas work horse when it comes to the military



I hope you end up broke soon:rolleyes: :p

If america would lose a war, I probably would have died protecting it, if not, I will take what is coming to me and fight for my country in any way that I can. When troops commit crimes the US deals with them and punishes them accordingly. People don't get away with war crimes anymore, and when they do, they eventually pay the price. Oh and by the way, the british moved in after the Taliban government fell. Thank you.