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svetli_pp
08-20-04, 12:04 PM
I've read that the stress test of HL2 runs DX8.1 path on all FX cards. Its absolutely ridiculous. I have 5900XT and see that at 1024x768 it runs the test 92fps. Isn't it normal to be able to turn DX9 render path and get lets say 40-50 fps. Everything concerning HL2 benchmarking is very stinky I think. ATI is pushing Valve to deliberately adjust the performance in order to close the gap Doom3 dug between two card manufacturers. I'm sure it won't happen, because HL2 is not half as demanding a game as Doom, and lacking 10% will not make it unplayable on highest settings 1600 where 6800U makes 60fps. If when the game is done and released FINALLY:) Valve do not allow my card to run it DX9 I officially announce I will never even try it. I don't like first HL much either. All the fuss around HL2 benches now reminds me of the same situation last year. Hope the following events will not resem :lame: ble last year's and we'll see the game at last.

Sazar
08-20-04, 12:09 PM
?

how is their trying to maximise the frame-rate with the minimum of IQ loss a bad thing?

would it not SUIT ati and valve if per your insinuations they were out to hurt nvidia if they had just run the stock dx9 path for the FX series and seen the frame-rate plummet?

in light of the fact that the benches do indeed show pretty good performance for the FX series (a little faster than the r3xx series in raw fps though w/o running dx9 path) it becomes very suspect to accuse valve of trying to hurt nvidia here...

do you have and proof to back your claims of ati pushing valve to deliberately hurt nvidia? last i checked the performance of nvidia cards on the source benches was pretty good..

DaveW
08-20-04, 12:36 PM
Its funny how people compared the HL2 engine against Doom 3. Its nowhere near as advanced. I've said it many times and nobody listens...

The HL2 engine is a hack the QUAKE ONE engine.

Its just a rebuild of the original Half-life engine (which was based off Quake 1, NOT Quake 2), and it has the havoc physics engine taped onto the side. Download the leaked source and see for yourself. First line in the code is "#include glquake.h".

The only reason the HL2 screenies look so good is because they can use higher resolution textures and poly counts with todays cards. The HL2 screens appear to use a lot of real world photos for the buildings etc and they do look very sweet, but the engine itself is nothing special. This is why we are seeing 100+ FPS. And yeah, ATI cards are faster than nVidia... but if I get 100 FPS instead of 120 FPS I don't care. I won't notice the difference, unlike with Doom 3 where I would be getting 25 FPS instead of 45 FPS if I got a x800 Pro instead of a 6800 GT. At lower frame rates the performance difference is much more important.

The HL2 engine will still be a good base for mods because of its lower requirements. The game may still be good because of the story and level design. It will look good because of good modelling and excellent texturing. But the engine itself is nothing special.

Assi9
08-20-04, 01:10 PM
So because "#include glquake.h" is included in the code, so automatically, Source = Quake 1 engine?

Wait a minute, my name is George W. Bush, that means I must be the president of the United States!!! :clap:

Rakeesh
08-20-04, 01:42 PM
Its funny how people compared the HL2 engine against Doom 3. Its nowhere near as advanced. I've said it many times and nobody listens...

The HL2 engine is a hack the QUAKE ONE engine.

Sorry, but that is very dumb logic. It would be like saying that a Ferrari is the same as a peice of **** dodge neon since the frame is made out of the same kind of metal, and some of the nuts and bolts are the same size.

gmontem
08-20-04, 02:52 PM
I feel like renaming one of the header files at work "glquake.h" now. :p

gmontem
08-20-04, 02:57 PM
Oops I meant it to read '... at work to "glquake.h" now.' Hmm, strange how post editting has been disabled.

Holy Smoke
08-20-04, 05:40 PM
Anyone wanna bet there's no trace of earlier Quake engines in Doom3?

If you turn off shadows, bump mapping and specular, it looks REMARKABLY like a low poly Quake3, leading to the possibility that that's exactly what the doom3 engine is.

Holy Smoke
08-20-04, 05:47 PM
Also, the Tenebrae mod for the original Quake seems to back that up, as it's just based on the it's source code, with additions.

http://tenebrae.sourceforge.net/shots8/quake00066.jpg
http://tenebrae.sourceforge.net/shots8/quake00099.jpg
http://tenebrae.sourceforge.net/shots8/quake93.jpg
http://tenebrae.sourceforge.net/shots8/quake00006.jpg
http://www.tenebrae2.com/screenshots/tenebrae2_tb-base_06.jpg

Rakeesh
08-20-04, 07:56 PM
quake1 models are teh sux :D

|JuiceZ|
08-20-04, 10:11 PM
Are there any high rez text mods for q2?

Cheimison
08-21-04, 12:57 AM
"Are there any high rez text mods for q2?"
Yes, I believe it's enhanced Q2

Doom 3's graphics engine beats Half-Life 2 easily, but HL2 seems to have more work put into their textures and map details (probably because you couldn't see it in Doom 3 anyways). Also, unless you're running a machine similar to mine, if you tried to put a Doom3 level engine into fully lit gameplay with large, outdoor areas(like a lot of HL2 will probably be) your framerate would plummet into unplayability.

HL 2 also seems to have better physics, plus Valve said it supports GeoModding

faraday
08-21-04, 05:54 AM
Its funny how people compared the HL2 engine against Doom 3. Its nowhere near as advanced. I've said it many times and nobody listens...

The HL2 engine is a hack the QUAKE ONE engine.

Its just a rebuild of the original Half-life engine (which was based off Quake 1, NOT Quake 2), and it has the havoc physics engine taped onto the side. Download the leaked source and see for yourself. First line in the code is "#include glquake.h".

The only reason the HL2 screenies look so good is because they can use higher resolution textures and poly counts with todays cards. The HL2 screens appear to use a lot of real world photos for the buildings etc and they do look very sweet, but the engine itself is nothing special. This is why we are seeing 100+ FPS. And yeah, ATI cards are faster than nVidia... but if I get 100 FPS instead of 120 FPS I don't care. I won't notice the difference, unlike with Doom 3 where I would be getting 25 FPS instead of 45 FPS if I got a x800 Pro instead of a 6800 GT. At lower frame rates the performance difference is much more important.

The HL2 engine will still be a good base for mods because of its lower requirements. The game may still be good because of the story and level design. It will look good because of good modelling and excellent texturing. But the engine itself is nothing special.


You're so high, you have no ideia whats going on... :lol2:

Woodelf
08-21-04, 07:50 AM
I have to admit (the first time i saw HL2 screens)
that I thought there was a similar look to the engine, but don't really know if it's just because of the same artistry. :)

gordon151
08-21-04, 03:39 PM
Also, the Tenebrae mod for the original Quake seems to back that up, as it's just based on the it's source code, with additions.

http://tenebrae.sourceforge.net/shots8/quake00099.jpg
http://www.tenebrae2.com/screenshots/tenebrae2_tb-base_06.jpg

I'd swear those were Doom3 shots if you hadn't told me.

Holy Smoke
08-21-04, 04:00 PM
I'd swear those were Doom3 shots if you hadn't told me.
Exactly.

I *think* that one of the great misconceptions about technology, especially regarding graphics, is that it's revolutionary rather than evolutionary. Remember how people complained about Thief3's and DX:IW's performance? How they performed worse than they looked? I think the *only* difference between those engines and Doom3's is that Doom3 uses specular light maps on everything, whereas those other two don't. Meaning that if you turn off specular in Doom3, you end up with a game that looks the same as the other two, with similar performance.

And when you compare earlier screenshots of DX:IW (while it still looked good) with the released game, you'll notice that the main reason it looked so much better was due to the fact that specular lighting attenuated the bump and normal maps in the game way better than the simple lighting that was used in the released game. The bump/normal maps are still there, but without specular you hardly notice them.

SH64
08-21-04, 07:24 PM
Whats this ? .. Valve for sale ??

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5515280448

:wtf:

Woodelf
08-21-04, 07:38 PM
Whats this ? .. Valve for sale ??

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5515280448

:wtf:

Gabe's bidding on it too. My gosh this is serious.
Hey id look what we found. :nanahump:

Cheimison
08-21-04, 09:54 PM
"I *think* that one of the great misconceptions about technology, especially regarding graphics, is that it's revolutionary rather than evolutionary. Remember how people complained about Thief3's and DX:IW's performance? How they performed worse than they looked? I think the *only* difference between those engines and Doom3's is that Doom3 uses specular light maps on everything, whereas those other two don't. Meaning that if you turn off specular in Doom3, you end up with a game that looks the same as the other two, with similar performance."
Just because engines have the same features doesn't mean they perform those features as well. Pre-Release IW did indeed have all the general features of the D3 engine in name, but D3 has defacto superior quality of those effects. Also the polycounts in D3 are WAY higher than those games.

S.I.N
08-21-04, 10:35 PM
Gabe's bidding on it too. My gosh this is serious.
Hey id look what we found. :nanahump:


LOL I didnt think that was the real Gabe Newell. I signed into my e-bay account to check him out and is e-mail is "*****@valvesoftware.com"

Gabe is into sharp things look what he picked up before, http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=43325&item=2248469458

Razor1
08-21-04, 11:34 PM
"I *think* that one of the great misconceptions about technology, especially regarding graphics, is that it's revolutionary rather than evolutionary. Remember how people complained about Thief3's and DX:IW's performance? How they performed worse than they looked? I think the *only* difference between those engines and Doom3's is that Doom3 uses specular light maps on everything, whereas those other two don't. Meaning that if you turn off specular in Doom3, you end up with a game that looks the same as the other two, with similar performance."
Just because engines have the same features doesn't mean they perform those features as well. Pre-Release IW did indeed have all the general features of the D3 engine in name, but D3 has defacto superior quality of those effects. Also the polycounts in D3 are WAY higher than those games.


Depends on the engine take the quake 3 engine now and put in per pixel lighting and all shadows casted are volumetric you will end up with Doom 3. The Q3 engine can also handle the polygon counts too. The reason for the rewrite was probably to make the code more portable and easier for others to read.

The Source engine is very similiar to the Doom 3 engine as both have the same inharent restrictions because they are both built on a BSP tree.

The new revolutionary engines are Stalker and Crytek, this is why both these engine can do indoors equally well as Source and Doom 3, but when it comes to outdoor rendering they are unmatched. They don't use BSP trees. The base engine for terrain rendering uses either octtrees or polysoups. By using these methods the programming of geometric complexities increase quite a bit.

Cheimison
08-22-04, 12:57 AM
Doom 3 is Quake 3 with the rendering engine ripped out and flipped around.

Nearly every FPS game since Quake has been a Quake mod.

svetli_pp
08-22-04, 03:44 AM
Have you played FarCry after going through Doom3. I have and I am absolutely disappointed with cryengine. I even wonder how could I have admired FarCry so much before. It does not come halfway close to doom3. Everything looks like made of plastic with plain textures over half of the objects in most of the game levels. Even Thief3 looks much sophisticated. IMHO.

Cheimison
08-22-04, 06:43 PM
FarCry's main strength is its large levels and nice looking water. Otherwise, the old Soldier of Fortune was as good. The weapon models suck in Far Cry, also.

WeReWoLf
08-22-04, 11:10 PM
For all of those people that want high res textures in Doom 3, download the Parallax Mapping Mod v1.0 from Fileplanet. It adds Displacement Mapping into Doom 3, so that all of the textures are suddenly Hi Res. It also looks freakin sweet.

http://www2.fileplanet.com/images/140000/144453ss.jpg