View Full Version : has banning al-jazeera from iraq really mattered?
the reasons cited were coz al-jazeera incited violence and terrorism...
well since their offices were shut I have seen no reduction in violence through to the current bombing in iraq killing 2 people at least and renewed violence in najaf...
while i don't condone their reporting methods or their viewpoint on most any topic... censoring al-jazeera does not seem to have helped any...
Riptide
08-22-04, 08:47 AM
It may take more time to have a measurable effect. It's difficult to undo the influence that had on the population in such a short period of time. Attitudes once shaped are difficult to change.
i just don't buy into the "al-jazeera is causing terrorists to spring out" frame of mind given what has continued to occur... especially given the lack of television sets in iraq (if the clips of hundreds of people gathering round 1 television set for the football matches is any indication)
but then al-jazeera should have known its content was borderline on some stories...
sytaylor
08-22-04, 12:24 PM
I think al-jazeera contributed to the mood of the people. Limiting its influence in conjunction with establishing law and order will have a slow but lasting effect if done properly. People who already believe the USA is the source of all evil and that the Iraq government is just a puppet following orders will continue to do so. Yet with enough lawfulness and enough time to show people the advantages of a lawful but free society I think little decisions like this could go a long way.
You say you aren't condoning them yet you are by your post. If you think as most people in the world do that they are spreading propaganda then it should not matter how much violence is curbed from giving them the boot.
I don't condone censorship though admittedly it may be necessary in some situations...
I am asking whether closing al-jazeera has helped any because it doesn't look like it... what is your take on this matter?
Ninja Prime
08-23-04, 12:41 AM
I am asking whether closing al-jazeera has helped any because it doesn't look like it... what is your take on this matter?
How do you know that "it doesn't look like it" when you haven't seen what would have happened if it wasn't banned from Iraq? There is no way for you to know...
I don't condone censorship though admittedly it may be necessary in some situations...
I am asking whether closing al-jazeera has helped any because it doesn't look like it... what is your take on this matter?
We should bomb Al Jazeera. That is my take. Shoot if Clinton can bomb the Chinese embassy than Bush can bomb Al Jazeera.
How do you know that "it doesn't look like it" when you haven't seen what would have happened if it wasn't banned from Iraq? There is no way for you to know...
?
the number of incidents as well as the level of violence has not changed since they were banned... thats what I am extrapolating from...
the before and after is the same...
Banning Al-Jazeera while installing Democracy. How ironic. The news was gruesome, biased, uncensored, and had a motive. No more criminal than the filtered, watered down propaganda our side of the world reports.
When you link anything to terrorism, the public buys it. Al-Jazeera does not fuel terrorism. Terrosim has enough force to last the next 20 years. Middle Eastern terrorism is not caused solely by Islam, it is not a mental disorder, it is taking an extreme reaction to how the United States have flexed their muscle around the world and cost the lives of millions of civilians through funding death squads in the Reagan/Carter years (Central America), killing countless people through harsh and strict sanctions, and supporting dangerous and murderous regimes in exchange for business and oil control (Saddam being only one of them).
For every one person America saves, five have been killed. The only solution to this conflict in the Middle East is intelligence. Both sides don't have a clue.
vampireuk
08-23-04, 04:44 PM
You seem to have a grudge against America, Canadian by any chance? ;)
I don't have a grudge against America. I think it is a great country in alot of ways. I am far and away from being anti-Capitalism or any of that stereotypical anti-American banter. I just try and look at these conflicts in an unbiased way, and the end result is almost always 50/50, rarely Good vs. Evil like it is depicted.
America has its great side and its terrible side. The only way to make the world a better place is to acknowledge that terrible side and find out the root of these problems. Unfortenately that is the last thing the people who run the country want.
Yes, I am Canadian. Victoria, BC, Canada. 45 minutes from Washingston State.
vampireuk
08-23-04, 04:58 PM
See Candian, I'm right :D
This is very much black and white, its the good guys vs the bad guys, you can try and deny this all you want but it is true.
Only someone who knows nothing of history would say that. I'm sorry...its true.
vampireuk
08-23-04, 05:04 PM
I'm quite well versed in history and only a naive idiot could think that going after rogue nations and terrorists is not black and white :thumbsup:
Well then, if you were well versed in history, you'd realize how nearly every atrocity commited by Saddam was done with U.S. approval ;)
vampireuk
08-23-04, 05:25 PM
And that has what to do with todays current situation? You forget Russia and France were still dealing with Iraq long after the US was, the US and UK cleaned up their mess, france ran away
I don't have a grudge against America. I think it is a great country in alot of ways. I am far and away from being anti-Capitalism or any of that stereotypical anti-American banter. I just try and look at these conflicts in an unbiased way, and the end result is almost always 50/50, rarely Good vs. Evil like it is depicted.
America has its great side and its terrible side. The only way to make the world a better place is to acknowledge that terrible side and find out the root of these problems. Unfortenately that is the last thing the people who run the country want.
Yes, I am Canadian. Victoria, BC, Canada. 45 minutes from Washingston State.
I live just south of Seattle and Gib lives in Vancouver.
iraq is currently (last I heard) under a form of martial law to handle the incidents of violence there...
in light of that all publications and the like have to toe the line to ensure that they don't add fuel to the fire... in light of that I can understand al-jazeera being put under lock and key...
however if al-jazeera was inciting violence then the number of inicidents should have shown some signs of going down...
if the violence continues then should the conclusion be that al-jazeera was not inciting it and therefore should be re-opened?
Well then, if you were well versed in history, you'd realize how nearly every atrocity commited by Saddam was done with U.S. approval ;)
That is a lie and further more to say you are unbias is funny. Every one is biased.
iraq is currently (last I heard) under a form of martial law to handle the incidents of violence there...
in light of that all publications and the like have to toe the line to ensure that they don't add fuel to the fire... in light of that I can understand al-jazeera being put under lock and key...
however if al-jazeera was inciting violence then the number of inicidents should have shown some signs of going down...
if the violence continues then should the conclusion be that al-jazeera was not inciting it and therefore should be re-opened?
I don't think you logic is that cut and paste and further more I don't think there has to be a cause and effect wrt to propaganda for it to be kicked out of Iraq right now.
That is a lie and further more to say you are unbias is funny. Every one is biased.I said I try to be unbiased. It is hard and no one is truly unbiased.
It is not a lie, Saddam was Americas boy as long as he didn't get in the way of their oil and business prospects. Accept it, Bush Sr. and co. didn't give a sh*t about the murderous dictator, he was their main man. He could of killed every Iraqi civilian in the country and America wouldn't of stepped in.
The same can be said for Central America in the 1970's. Why else would Reagan take the United States out of the World Court when they were charged? It is because the crimes they commited down there were the equivalent of 10,000 9/11's.
I can't stand people thinking their country is defending freedom when all every country does is look out for itself and step on number two. Iraq is a current day example, and unfortenately will probably end up like Afganistan. TONS of huge promises of restoring equality rights, ridding the Taliban, bringing everyone into a Democracy and what happens? As soon as the media is off that country, they do nothing. Women are still treated like dogs, people still live like sh*t and over 2/3 of that country is the same, if not worse, than it was under the Taliban (which has regained power by the way).
A year after Iraq, I'm betting another country will be the hot target and they'll back out on half the promises, but only after staging the election which they've done about 20 times in the past :o
I said I try to be unbiased. It is hard and no one is truly unbiased.
True..
It is not a lie, Saddam was Americas boy as long as he didn't get in the way of their oil and business prospects. Accept it, Bush Sr. and co. didn't give a sh*t about the murderous dictator, he was their main man. He could of killed every Iraqi civilian in the country and America wouldn't of stepped in.
It is a lie. We have regions in the world that just so happen to have control of most the known oil, oil that fuels all of the western world. In these regions dictators are in control. What do we do? Do we just take the oil or do we try and work with them? Well we did the later and so did Canada (and don't tell me all your oil is bought by sweet little old grandmas). We have no choice but to work with these countries.
Still for you to say we condoned it is just a flat out lie and a very Candian way of looking at the US as usual.
I can't stand people thinking their country is defending freedom when all every country does is look out for itself and step on number two. Iraq is a current day example, and unfortenately will probably end up like Afganistan. TONS of huge promises of restoring equality rights, ridding the Taliban, bringing everyone into a Democracy and what happens? As soon as the media is off that country, they do nothing. Women are still treated like dogs, people still live like sh*t and over 2/3 of that country is the same, if not worse, than it was under the Taliban (which has regained power by the way).
A year after Iraq, I'm betting another country will be the hot target and they'll back out on half the promises, but only after staging the election which they've done about 20 times in the past
Like I said this is very Canadian of you. We protect you guys and do your dirty work and in the end we get crapped on. Oh BTW stop stealing our fishing boats. BAHAHAAHAHAA!!!!
BTW I find it funny that you say these people are bad but when we finally do something about it you crap on us. LMAO!!! which is it? Are we bad because we allowed it or are we bad for stopping it? LOL
Ok, I am never against removing an evil dictator. But this Iraq war was unforgivable and sets a dangerous road ahead for future wars. It was built on lies and deception, and the administration was playing everyone for fools. Its way beyond "our information was wrong, now its right". The war was not for freeing the Iraqi people, no war these days ever is. It was not for terrorism, its already clear Saddam didn't have a direct role in terrorism and Iraq was nowhere near the terrorist haven its neighbours are. It was shady and manipulative, and for a "war for the people", that shock and awe was disgusting.
Once again, I am never against violence when used for the common good. I am against violence commited by a country who has a long history of using it to put themselves higher and others lower. I would gladly change my opinion on this war, but the leaders are no different than the past and I'm skeptical about their promises.
It is a hell of alot more complicated than "at least were doing something now"
Doing our dirty work? Protecting us?
How so?
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