View Full Version : Give it BACK!
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/olympics/2004/gymnastics/08/27/bc.oly.taintedgold.ap/index.html?cnn=yes
Ok so they make the mistake and they want Hamm to fix it? I don't think so. They need to correct the situation and then apologize to all the parties involved. What a total weak kneed way of putting the pressure on Hamm. Not only does he have to give up the medal but on top of it they want him to humiliate him self. This is one reason I have started hating the Olympics the last 12 years. Sure it was always messed up but I was young back then and just saw sports. Now I see the politics and the money that is involved and it stinks.
The overall judging and officiating in Olympics, especially this one, is horrible.
True. It is obvious that Hamm did not win the gold. This is a fact, now ever to ask him to correct the mistake is just disgusting.
DivotMaker
08-27-04, 06:33 PM
True. It is obvious that Hamm did not win the gold. This is a fact, now ever to ask him to correct the mistake is just disgusting.
Actually, the judging was so poor that the judges have now realized they missed several deductions in the S. Korean's routines that they SHOULD have deducted for and simply missed. So in essence, Hamm very likely won the Gold anyway even if you want to go back and make allowances for the initial scoring error. If you want to avoid this in the future, instant replay is the only way.
give the other guy a gold medal as well (they did it in Salt Lake City to the Canadian skaters). afterwards, get rid of all sports with artistic merit as part of the judging criteria. if it cannot be measured, timed, or easily shown that one person (or team) has won, then the sport has no place in the Olympics. but that will never happen, since some of the most popular televised sports of the most artisitc.
Actually, the judging was so poor that the judges have now realized they missed several deductions in the S. Korean's routines that they SHOULD have deducted for and simply missed. So in essence, Hamm very likely won the Gold anyway even if you want to go back and make allowances for the initial scoring error. If you want to avoid this in the future, instant replay is the only way.
I was having a chat with a friend of mine who was judging events through till this year and had certification thru level 9 (level 10 is the highest) and from what she said as well as the rules I read and the description the NBC guy gave... I have a feeling that somewhere in that area the NBC guy is wrong...
the error was wrt 4 holds... the rules specify if there are 4 pauses that that is a violation... the korean was performing his routine and the pauses would not be part of the routine in the manner the NBC guy described...
unless someone else who has more knowledge wants to shed more light on this I am gonna go with my friend and her description of what happened...
wrt what happened my views are pretty much in line with udawg's... I don't think hamm won but its retarded to ask someone to give their medal up in the manner the FIG demanded it... its just another of their bone-headed moves over and above what has already occured in the event...
The sad thing is, Hamm gave a great performance. He was simply brilliant on the second day. He should feel proud but he simply didn't win the gold.
the whole incident has me all jaded... I almost don't care anymore...
just want to enjoy the rest of the games :)
its about more than one event and the FIG's f*ck up should not reflect on the others...
DivotMaker
08-28-04, 10:44 AM
He should feel proud but he simply didn't win the gold.
Uh, actually he did. What people don't seem to realize is that had the judging been conducted correctly to begin with (proper starting difficulty points in question/proper deductions for moves not made by the Korean), Hamm would have had about the same challenge to win as he did the night he won. With the way the judging was going, he would have won anyway with his final high bar performance.
bigB... you are getting onto a slippery slope there...
assuming that the korean had indeed made the mistakes that he is supposed to have made in the parallel bars upon video review (which is not allowed) then if you look @ hamms other routines you will see mistakes and so on... so forth...
the korean delegation has not said anything about hamm's routines... they have simply said that their's was scored incorrectly... hamm and his coach and others have been bandying about the form breaks in the korean's routine... as before I have a hard time seeing what they are talking about
@ the end of the day based on the start values a compromise should have been reached on what was to be done... the korean delegation maintains they appealed in a timely fashion and were told to bring it up @ the end of the event.. I dunno if this is true or not and it is indeed in the realm of possibility that they screwed the proverbial pooch...
given the simple fact that there was an error on start values and w/o going back through all teh footage there is no doubt that the korean won...
if indeed we go back through the footage for all the events than the japanese and the russians are going to win medals @ the expense of hamm and others because they were scored poorly on their routines in the individual events...
I'll support Hamm giving back his gold when the South Koreans hand over Roy Jones Jr. gold medal in boxing from Seoul in 1988 which is one of the worst thefts in Olympic history.
http://www.littleboyinc.com/uploader/uploads/JapanKorea2.gif
YOGIx213
08-30-04, 01:36 AM
http://www.littleboyinc.com/uploader/uploads/JapanKorea2.gif
Whining or not, if the roles were reversed, the United States would raise hell as well. It was a total foul up and it's up to the IOC to make the decision, not Paul Hamm. I would agree to a second gold awarded but it won't happen. On a side note, I read a humorous article about this whole messed up situation on ESPN and they were discussing the option of Paul Hamm voluntarily giving up his gold and they compared the Olympic gold to the ring from LOTR. I wish I had a link to it but they basically mimicked Gollum when describing the coveted Gold. Just imagine Gollum admiring the ring and replace it with the medal. Very funny stuff.
its not upto the IOC... they have washed their hands off the issue... it was upto the FIG but after they messed things up so bad the issue is basically a fait-accompli...
the media will portray hamm as a hero here and the south korean will be shown as a victim in south korea and no one will worry about this till the next olympics... hopefully...
Spiritwalker
08-30-04, 01:47 PM
There was another event in the gym that day that has been overshadowed by this. In the mens vault final the Canadian Kyle Shewfelt was blatently ripped off of the bronze by improper judging. The competitor that won the bronze actually took a step, slipped, stepped out of the line and touched his hand and yet still received a higher score. All of these faults make it mathematically impossible for that to have happened. This was only error number one. The other is in respect to the way the judges scores are then tabulated. If marks are out by more than .2 then the scorer must confer with the judges as to why they are so far apart. This did not happen either.
on the whole i felt that the top japanese gymnast was collectively ripped off more than any other single person wrt all his individual events...
but he never complained :)
and yer right about the ranges and what happened with that... it was almost amateurish on the whole and I really hope that the FIG gets their act together and assigns a lead group of judges who are assigned to the main competitios (not based on their nationality but rather their ability)
however given the FIG's incompetence i really can't say this would work either...
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