I hate Safari

[superklye]

In other words; Argument from Ignorance.

Gee, this thread has been enlightening. :lame:

I don't remember asking you to post here, there was nothing forcing you to. I don't like Macs and I have absolutely no desire to do anything more on them than I have to. Why? Because anything that I want to do on a Mac, I can do on a PC easier and faster. There is no benefits to Macs at all, in my eyes. They are nothing but a thorn in my side and an obstacle there only to make my job more annoying.

I'm ignorant of Macs because I want to be. If there was something amazing that I could do with one that I can't do on a PC, then I sure as hell would be interested but there are more than enough things I can't do on a PC that I don't need to worry about a computer that looks like it's housing and OS were designed by the Queer Eye crew. :rolleyes:

Pretty != better or more efficient

[gigapower]

Pretty != better or more efficient

Spend a week with Expose and then a week with out. I honestly have no clue how I survived without Expose.

[superklye]

Spend a week with Expose and then a week with out. I honestly have no clue how I survived without Expose.

What is Expose?

[gigapower]

http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/expose/

Check it. Basically using some function keys(or user asigned keys including mouse buttons) I can view all opened windows at once which is what I use it the most for, or I push all windows out of view and drop to my desktop and then find what I'm looking for hit the button again and they all spring back into place.

It's the little features like Expose and the stability that OS X gives, that is why I do my real work on a Mac.

A great new feature in OS X 10.4 will be the ability to search your files by not only name but Metadata, File System, and actual content in the files. Also as you search in folders and system panels OS X 10.4 will "Spotlight" files that match your search string while you type it in.

True story: my parents were constantly breaking down their Windows XP machine which in turn ment I was always having to go over there on weekends and fix it(but I got free meals for it so it wasn't that bad :) ). Last spring they decided it was time to buy a new one, I begged them to buy a Mac. No joke. It was a hard sell, but they finally did it. They bought a 20" iMac G4 at 1.25Ghz.......and I now miss all those free meals, but I love the DVD my dad made of old family films(using iMovie, iDVD, and iTunes) and the photo book my mom made(using iPhoto) of my little brothers first years. Could they have done those things on the PC? Sure.....but would they have been able to do it on their own with no help, probably not.

OS X is really a much more advanced and user friendly OS then Windows XP, plain and simple. If you think it looks like it was designed by Queer Eye, fine skin it, people do it all the time and the OS X skinning community is huge.

[Nitz Walsh]

I don't remember asking you to post here, there was nothing forcing you to.
Rather bizarre comment.

For one, I don't need your permissions. You're posting your views in a public forum, and I can post my opinions of those views. "Permission" or "forcing" is irrelevant.

I don't like Macs and I have absolutely no desire to do anything more on them than I have to.
Yes, you've made your ignorance and laziness abundantly clear.

Why? Because anything that I want to do on a Mac, I can do on a PC easier and faster. There is no benefits to Macs at all, in my eyes. They are nothing but a thorn in my side and an obstacle there only to make my job more annoying.
Your opinion - of course, not all opinions are created equal. Opinions that are born out of ignorance should be treated as such.

I'm ignorant of Macs because I want to be. If there was something amazing that I could do with one that I can't do on a PC, then I sure as hell would be interested
As your admittedly ignorant about the platform, how would you know?

Next time, just walk in public without any pants for 10 minutes. You'll find it's a far more efficient method to make an ass of yourself that posting rants in an online forum.

[Nitz Walsh]

http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/expose/
A great new feature in OS X 10.4 will be the ability to search your files by not only name but Metadata, File System, and actual content in the files.
It's basically an interface to an indexing system, which has existed since Mac OS8 (not realtime however), and exists in W2K/XP. The problem with W2K/XP's implementation is that the interface to configure it is definitely not user-friendly. If you know how though, you can configure it to be a real-time index, and get results back of your entire HD - including contents of files - in seconds, today.

MS has been demonstrated an MSN search tool that can also scan your HD and give results back in seconds as well, this will invariably be easier to use than the present indexing service. Google is rumored to be introducing a tool for Windows that does the same (hence MS rushing to get their MSN tool completed). Longhorn will ship with similar capability, the more robust WinFS will be available in beta but Longhorn will have the ability to search metadata in seconds out of the box, just not using WinFS.

The point is, most every OS will have this capability in the near future.

OS X is really a much more advanced and user friendly OS then Windows XP, plain and simple.
Well...not so simple. My ex-girlfriend found OSX laborious and confusing and XP much simpler, it depends on your philosophy for a user interface. Apple's "keep it simple mantra" can border on religious dogma at times where features do not present themselves to the user, and XP can be "in your face" too often at times where it hinders your productivity.

OSX certainly has a more advanced desktop display engine, but "more advanced" in total is debatable. If anything, after three OS revisions, charging full price for each in a little over 3 1/2 years, it had better be damn well "more advanced" in virtually every category. MS doesn't have that luxury, businesses and (to a lesser extent) consumers want them to slow down OS releases, not speed up. As MS doesn't control the hardware, forcing OS upgrades is far more difficult.

[jnd3]

http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/expose/

Check it. Basically using some function keys(or user asigned keys including mouse buttons) I can view all opened windows at once which is what I use it the most for, or I push all windows out of view and drop to my desktop and then find what I'm looking for hit the button again and they all spring back into place.

It's the little features like Expose and the stability that OS X gives, that is why I do my real work on a Mac.

Whoa, that's something I haven't yet discovered in using OS X (I'm a Mac newb)! Argh, I wish I had my PowerBook here at work, Expose looks like it'd be a real treat for the 12" screen (especially since Firefox and iTunes have to practically be maximized to be at all useful).

[superklye]

Rather bizarre comment.

For one, I don't need your permissions. You're posting your views in a public forum, and I can post my opinions of those views. "Permission" or "forcing" is irrelevant.

Your post did nothing to add to the conversation that was going on in any way, shape or form. You merely used a post to insult me. That wasn't necessary. There was no need for you to post that.

Yes, you've made your ignorance and laziness abundantly clear.

You're welcome.

Your opinion - of course, not all opinions are created equal. Opinions that are born out of ignorance should be treated as such.

Really? You mean the fact that it took me almost 7 minutes to update a page in Macromedia on a Mac and only 2 on my PC means that my opinion of being able work faster on PC is wrong?

As your admittedly ignorant about the platform, how would you know?

Because regardless of whether I know, I love to push your buttons. :)

Tell me all these wonderful things I can do on a Mac that I can't do on a PC? I don't care how much faster Adobe products are on Macs becuase I rarely use Adobe and speed really doesn't matter to me. I get paid by the hour, the longer it takes the more I get paid.

There are what, three maybe four games for Mac?

iTunes is highly overrated. After struggling with it for almost a month I gladly went back to Winamp 5.

So let's see, apart from a few other programs that are completely OS-Specific (such as this Expose program), everything you can do on a Mac, I can do with PC versions of the same software or a PC equivalent.

How are Macs the second coming of Christ? I really do want to know so that I can finally jump on the bandwagon that the other 20 of you Mac users out there are riding. :rolleyes:

Next time, just walk in public without any pants for 10 minutes. You'll find it's a far more efficient method to make an ass of yourself that posting rants in an online forum.

Next time, add something to the conversation instead of being a pretentious dick.

[Nitz Walsh]

Your post did nothing to add to the conversation that was going on in any way, shape or form.

Here's my first post - again - as apparently your scroll wheel abilities are lacking:


Of course, you have yet to voice any actual criticisms of Safari, other than it runs on a Mac. Those would actually help. Javascript performance is one such quibble - it's never been blazing on a Mac with any browser, but Safari can still fall on its ass on my meagre iBook with sites that contain a ton of emoticons. Other than that though, I find it excellent - tab browsing is made a lot less relevant with Expose in 10.3 of course, but I still rely on it with Opera on my PC at home. The taskbar just clutters up too quickly.

Although it's not strictly related to Safari, it's part of OSX's System Services, the built-in spell checking on-the-fly is killer. There's also a great add-in which pops up dictionary definitions for any word you want.

As for OSX taking a long time to upgrade - well obviously, that depends on your hardware. XP takes quite a bit to install on Celeron system with a 5400RPM drive, what are the specs of the Mac you're working on? When was the drive last defragmented?

As for virus software - hardly necessary on the Mac, but due to insurance policies and security standards, we have Norton on all our OSX installs here. It succesfully caught 10 Windows viruses that were emailed to one of our OSX users just last week. How did the Macs not "catching" the Windows viruses have anything at all to do with your network going down? That simply makes no sense. What, do you use an Emac as your friggin' attachment scanner for your email system before it hits the internal network!?

You merely used a post to insult me. That wasn't necessary. There was no need for you to post that.
As evidenced above, wrong. I stated what I enjoy about Safari, and asked for further clarification on these "problems". You didn't provide any in your OP or subsequent follow-ups.

If you had actually detailed problems and your system specs, more helpful suggestions might have been offered. Instead, you sulked in a corner and graced us with the impeccable logic of "A Mac sucks because it's a Mac".

Really? You mean the fact that it took me almost 7 minutes to update a page in Macromedia on a Mac and only 2 on my PC means that my opinion of being able work faster on PC is wrong?
Whoa! Actual details (somewhat) of a problem! Now we're on to something. You see, these help in having reasoned discussions instead of "It sucks".

Now, are you actually willing to see if you can improve your Mac experience, or would my question of software/system specs be irrelevant in that your responses will be more in line with your previous contributions? If I ask for your OS version, what patches have been applied, what software versions, what are your hardware specs, will you actually be forthcoming?

Because regardless of whether I know, I love to push your buttons. :)

Ah, I see. Acting as if your borderline mentally handicapped when it comes to another platform is a deceitful ploy to rope those who would actually point out that such a viewpoint is rather asinine, and in the function of a paying job, rather disingenuous.

Pure genius! YU ARE TEH MASTUR OF TEH INTRAWEB!111!!!

Tell me all these wonderful things I can do on a Mac that I can't do on a PC?
Why?

Who's stating the Mac is the panacea of the computing world? You made an OP about Safari, and opinions/suggestions were offered on why some of us thing it is quite an acceptable browser. When clarifications about your exact displeasure with Safari and the Macintosh platform in general were prompted, you responded nonsensically and gave up the conversation. I mocked this attitude, as it deserved to be. Luckily (for your sake, not theirs) you’ve been able to hide it from your employers.

I don't care how much faster Adobe products are on Macs
Actually, in many cases they're faster on PC's, although the new Dual 2.5 G5's may change that (still have a horrible price/performance ratio compared to a well-equipped Prescott/A64 rig, though). Depends on the Adobe app and the operation being performed.

becuase I rarely use Adobe and speed really doesn't matter to me.

If speed doesn’t matter, then why complain about Macromedia's performance on the Mac?

I get paid by the hour, the longer it takes the more I get paid.
That's quite the personality trifecta you've got going here:

1) Ignorance about the platform.
2) Laziness to properly learn the platform to at least mitigate some of its possible shortcomings.
3) Dishonesty - bilking your employer/customers out of their funds due to your aforementions laziness and ignorance.

There are what, three maybe four games for Mac?
A lot more than that, but the Mac sucks for games - both in availability of the requisite hardware/software, video features, and especially price/performance whereby it’s the worst for games as opposed to any other function.

Then again, I'm not sure what that has to do with Safari or your Mac experience at work. Really grasping at straws here, aren't you?

iTunes is highly overrated. After struggling with it for almost a month I gladly went back to Winamp 5.
I'm not sure how anyone could actually "struggle" with iTunes, but after this thread I wouldn't put anything past you. As usual of course, complete lack of specifics. How exactly did you “struggle” with it?

So let's see, apart from a few other programs that are completely OS-Specific (such as this Expose program),
It's a feature of the OS - it's no more of a "program" is than selecting to tile your Windows is a program on XP. Here’s that ignorance/laziness problem again.

How are Macs the second coming of Christ?

They're not.

How can you not know the meaning of strawmen arguments, when you make so many of them?

I really do want to know so that I can finally jump on the bandwagon that the other 20 of you Mac users out there are riding.
XP2500/GF4 4200 homebuilt system here, probably my 6th PC system in the past 8 years. Never owed a Mac outside of the company purchased iBook I have here now.

Again, completely irrelevant to the conversation. You’re at least consistent.

Next time, add something to the conversation instead of being a pretentious dick.
Maybe someday you’ll understand the irony here. Perhaps when you get older?

[saturnotaku]

Nitz and super, cut it out.

The flamewar is annoying and any sort of semblance of sanity this thread might have had has been lost.

Both of you need to grow up.

[superklye]

Here's my first post - again - as apparently your scroll wheel abilities are lacking:


My DEEPEST apologies for not memorizing your username and post. :rolleyes:

And as for your question about using an eMac as the file scanner, no. It's a Dual G5 server and that's all I know. I'm a 20 year old student working in the Residence Life Network Office as my school job and I get paid to troubleshoot virus and spyware problems on students' computers. I'm in the know on things because I do a lot of extra projects for the Assistant Dean of Res. Life and I also hear about stuff going on in the department from my supervisors because they like me. All I know is that there were about 2000 infected files that were being transfered back and forth from the Mac server and it was the #1 spreader of the Sasser virus to staff-owned computers across campus this summer.

It was a an unnecessary headache brought on by a Mac not having an anti-virus that catches Windows viruses. I believe the program being run was Retrospect which is a utility that backs up files and such (but I'm not exactly sure because I have no need to know since I'll never use it) and is used on both Windows and Mac, the server for which is the above mentioned Dual G5.

As evidenced above, wrong. I stated what I enjoy about Safari, and asked for further clarification on these "problems". You didn't provide any in your OP or subsequent follow-ups.

If you had actually detailed problems and your system specs, more helpful suggestions might have been offered. Instead, you sulked in a corner and graced us with the impeccable logic of "A Mac sucks because it's a Mac".

Yeah, that's basically what it all boils down to. I really don't have any problems with Macs, hence me coming up with lame excuses. I just like to give Mac users crap because so many of them go around acting like their **** doesn't smell for using them and I don't. They continue to throw the tired "Macs don't get viruses" crap at me and you know what? I have a PC and I don't get viruses. Wow, who'da thunk that could happen?



I already addressed the "It sucks" part.

It's a G4 1.25GHz 384MB PC2700 DDR RAM (I think) running 10.3.5. And it took 7 minutes because instead of right clicking to do many of the things I do, I had to actually search for their location in sub-menus etc. An issue I'm sure could be remedied with a little bit of proper training.

I really would like it because I really do like Macs. The whole point of this thread was really just to stir things up. I wouldn't mind having a dual G5 2.5GHz machine...in fact, I would love to have one. I would really get to know the Mac OS then and probably get a lot out of it. But I can't afford one and don't have time to play with Macs.

[QUOTE]Ah, I see. Acting as if your borderline mentally handicapped when it comes to another platform is a deceitful ploy to rope those who would actually point out that such a viewpoint is rather asinine, and in the function of a paying job, rather disingenuous.

Pure genius! YU ARE TEH MASTUR OF TEH INTRAWEB!111!!!

Moving on... :retard:

Why?

Why? Hmmm...maybe because I ****ing asked you to?

Who's stating the Mac is the panacea of the computing world? You made an OP about Safari, and opinions/suggestions were offered on why some of us thing it is quite an acceptable browser. When clarifications about your exact displeasure with Safari and the Macintosh platform in general were prompted, you responded nonsensically and gave up the conversation. I mocked this attitude, as it deserved to be. Luckily (for your sake, not theirs) you’ve been able to hide it from your employers.

Oh please. Who is stating that? You obviously don't talk to Mac users. Everyone that I have ever come into contact with that uses Macs exclusively. Becuase Macs don't get viruses, they are therefore the greatest computers known to mankind blah blah blah. It gets really old, really fast.

Actually, in many cases they're faster on PC's, although the new Dual 2.5 G5's may change that (still have a horrible price/performance ratio compared to a well-equipped Prescott/A64 rig, though). Depends on the Adobe app and the operation being performed.

If speed doesn’t matter, then why complain about Macromedia's performance on the Mac?

Okay...a few seconds difference (between a Mac and PC) that it takes between doing some rudimentary operation in photoshop and 7minutes vs. 2 minutes are completely different.

That's quite the personality trifecta you've got going here:

1) Ignorance about the platform.
2) Laziness to properly learn the platform to at least mitigate some of its possible shortcomings.
3) Dishonesty - bilking your employer/customers out of their funds due to your aforementions laziness and ignorance.

1. Yup, as I've stated numerous times.
2. Ditto
3. I'm a college student and they are having me do things I'm not properly trained for. I don't exactly understand what they'd expect, so I guess they can deal with the extra 15 minutes I bill them that it took me to figure it out. I hope they can afford that $1.69. But something tells me that with 11,000+ kids at roughly $22k/year for tuition alone, Marquette can handle it.

A lot more than that, but the Mac sucks for games - both in availability of the requisite hardware/software, video features, and especially price/performance whereby it’s the worst for games as opposed to any other function.

Then again, I'm not sure what that has to do with Safari or your Mac experience at work. Really grasping at straws here, aren't you?

I was being facetious and it has nothing to do with Safari or work, it has to do with Macs which is what this thread has become.

I'm not sure how anyone could actually "struggle" with iTunes, but after this thread I wouldn't put anything past you. As usual of course, complete lack of specifics. How exactly did you “struggle” with it?

It feels very clunky and I have over 650 Pearl Jam CDs (and in MP3 format). When I added them to iTunes, they were just thrown in alphabetically instead of the order in which they were added. The ID3 tags were not done (there are something like 15,000 MP3s) and therefore it was completely unusable. When I add files to Winamp, they stay in the order I add them and I don't have to put them in that huge, inefficient library first.

It's a feature of the OS - it's no more of a "program" is than selecting to tile your Windows is a program on XP. Here’s that ignorance/laziness problem again.

It's funny because I just really can't even bring myself to care.

They're not.

How can you not know the meaning of strawmen arguments, when you make so many of them?

Huh? As I stated earlier, exclusively Mac computer users (at least, a number I've met) feel that Macs are just ****ing incredible and they go on and on about them. I likened their enthusiam to that of us Christians and our ever-vigilant wait for the second coming of Christ and what a magnificent occasion that will be.

XP2500/GF4 4200 homebuilt system here, probably my 6th PC system in the past 8 years. Never owed a Mac outside of the company purchased iBook I have here now.

Again, completely irrelevant to the conversation. You’re at least consistent.

Yes, your paragraph about your homebuilt PC WAS completely irrelevant to the conversation. I never asked for it, there was no need to give it. I was mocking the relatively small user-base of people that exclusively use Macs.

You really need to work on picking up on sarcasm.

Maybe someday you’ll understand the irony here. Perhaps when you get older?

Yeah, or maybe when you start understanding sarcasm.

[superklye]

Nitz and super, cut it out.

The flamewar is annoying and any sort of semblance of sanity this thread might have had has been lost.

Both of you need to grow up.


sorry I was writing the above post when you po sted it. I'm done flaming though.

[Nitz Walsh]

My DEEPEST apologies for not memorizing your username and post. :rolleyes:
We're posting on a forum, not having a live phone conversation. No memorization is necessary, just the ability to scroll a web page.

I believe the program being run was Retrospect which is a utility that backs up files and such (but I'm not exactly sure because I have no need to know since I'll never use it) and is used on both Windows and Mac, the server for which is the above mentioned Dual G5.
Retrospect is backup software.

However, the Mac server is not to blame here. I'll be perfectly clear: The Mac cannot understand the Sasser worm. It is a Windows executable. It can not run it, therefore it can not spread it. The "infection" was simply Retrospect backing up infected PC's, of course if they're infected the worm will be on the Mac server if the client backups are stored there. However, OSX cannot aid the spread of the Sasser worm in any way.

To put this into perspective: It’s like finding copies of a Linux virus on a Windows 2003 server and blaming Windows, which doesn’t understand it and can’t possibly run it. Simply because users can place an infected file on a network share does not mean the server is assisting in the distribution.

Either you misunderstood the information you received, or those blaming the Mac server as the propagation point simply don't have a clue.

I just like to give Mac users crap because so many of them go around acting like their **** doesn't smell for using them and I don't.

The whole point of this thread was really just to stir things up.
Ah, I see. You're an admitted troll then.

Oh please. Who is stating that? You obviously don't talk to Mac users.
Primarily a Mac administrator at my site actually (although W2K/XP server & client as well) - responsible for the installation and upkeep of 120+ Macs across the organization at various sites spread throughout the country. Didn’t necessarily want the job, but once the previous Mac admin left in a huff, the responsibility was mine. Minimal training was offered months later, but by that time I was well into the fire.

If you’re planning a career in the IT industry (no idea if you are or not), you had better get used to supporting platforms that you may not have had much exposure to previously. Solution? Buy a book, and start learning on your own. We’re not talking about you expecting to know how to configure Apache from the Terminal for pete's sake, for basic OSX operation and its difference from Windows, a couple of hours of light reading would do wonders. Why not take the opportunity to have some knowledge on another platform? It can be quite valuable.

So yes, I actually talk to Mac users on a regular basis, and sometimes I want to strangle them – not due to any platform fanaticism per-se, more to do with their own inflexibility – they would have been perfectly happy to keep using OS9 for pete sakes (unfortunately for them, Apple has a hardware monopoly and can force the issue).

Again however, your opinion on Mac users is completely irrelevant to your OP and the thread up until this point. You started the thread about Safari, people (including myself, but not solely restricted to) inquired about your actual criticisms instead of just blanket condemnation. You offered very little, and eventually just admitted you hate the platform based on specious reasoning.

If you want to vent about Mac users (or rather, your prejudices against them), then so be it. It would help in the future if you would be more honest with your threads however to avoid wasting the time of those of us who might actually want to assist someone in the chance they’re actually looking to improve their knowledge.

Okay...a few seconds difference (between a Mac and PC) that it takes between doing some rudimentary operation in photoshop and 7minutes vs. 2 minutes are completely different.
You just admitted the 7 vs. 2 minutes was a direct result of your unfamiliarity with the Mac version of Macromedia, not actual performance from a hardware point of view (the way the word is normally used, especially on these forums. I don’t state “Word 2003 performance sucks!” because it took me 10 minutes to discover the frickin’ Search and Replace command.)

I was being facetious and it has nothing to do with Safari or work
Rather odd choice of thread title and the content of subsequent posts then, wouldn't you say?

It's funny because I just really can't even bring myself to care.
Then why the OP, and the thread in its entirety? Obviously, you do care.

Huh? As I stated earlier, exclusively Mac computer users (at least, a number I've met) feel that Macs are just ****ing incredible and they go on and on about them.
As you remain ignorant about the platform, how do you know this appeal is irrational?

I don’t particularly become orgasmic when I’m near a Mac, however I don’t dismiss them out of hand either, as I try to avoid doing that on many subjects I’m unfamiliar with. I prefer informed opinions, but hey – that’s me. I’m kooky like that.

I likened their enthusiam to that of us Christians and our ever-vigilant wait for the second coming of Christ and what a magnificent occasion that will be.
Yes, Steve Jobs RDF (Reality Distortion Field) can indeed be sickening at times, but what about their enthusiasm bothers you so much? You have a strong distaste for enthusiastic people?

I don’t think that’s it. I suspect that it’s their ignorance of the PC platform which bothers you, and the subsequent fear-mongering about the foibles of PC’s which arises from such ignorance.

Your response to their ignorance about your platform? To be completely ignorant about their platform.

Brilliant strategy.

Yes, your paragraph about your homebuilt PC WAS completely irrelevant to the conversation.
Please, try and follow along:

Your previous post:

I really do want to know so that I can finally jump on the bandwagon that the other 20 of you Mac users out there are riding.
You're obviously referring to myself as primarily a Mac user ("you" Mac Users) who’s drunk the RDF kool-aid and has therefore “jumped on the bandwagon”. My response:

XP2500/GF4 4200 homebuilt system here, probably my 6th PC system in the past 8 years. Never owed a Mac outside of the company purchased iBook I have here now.
Indicating that yes, I know how to use a Mac - but I have never spent my own money purchasing one. Hence, I'm not "on the bandwagon", and have no unbridled enthusiasm to defend.

This really shouldn't be that difficult.

You really need to work on picking up on sarcasm.
Believe me, the only confusing part of your posts is the point of them.

[Clay]

ok, that's a wrap!