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Phoking
08-31-04, 02:03 AM
I upgraded to a 6800GT thinking it would boost my fps to 99 indefinately in CS but that has not been the case. It can barely run a smooth 60 fps on some parts of de_Aztec and de_stoneworld. I've tried vsync off and on with very disappointing results. I've also tried different drivers and have even formatted recently with no improvement. I run the game in 1024X768 I would think it should be doing somewhat better than it is. :lame:

What makes things even more disappointing is I just built a computer for my friend (800 Mhz 2.80E Pentium 4 - 512MB of cheap-0 DDR 3200 - and my OLD Geforce 3 Ti.) It runs CS perfectly fine (always 60 fps) with vsync on at 1024.

Could the difference in processor speeds that really helps him? Or could it be because of the 4X agp or unusual rambus memory?

iammrfarrukh
08-31-04, 02:08 AM
try writing fps_max 101 in ur console if that doesnt work try writing fps_modem 101 if that too doesnt work try writing cl_updaterate 101 then try rate 9999 or cl_rate 9999

Phoking
08-31-04, 02:16 AM
try writing fps_max 101 in ur console if that doesnt work try writing fps_modem 101 if that too doesnt work try writing cl_updaterate 101 then try rate 9999 or cl_rate 9999

Its not that my game cant get 99 fps, but rather it dips down and stays around 60fps or less on parts of aztec and stoneworld. And whenever it dips, the game won't even let me control the character like my commands didn't even register in the game until a couple of seconds later.

CaptNKILL
08-31-04, 02:48 AM
Theres deffinitely something wrong there, its not the speed of your system. I can play any HL mod through steam at 1600x1200 4xAA 16xAF High Quality and i think its always over 99fps (havent checked but ive never ever noticed a change in framerate).

I really dont know for sure what this is. You might want to look around the steam\cs message boards for a solution. Also, do you have any other games to try out? If so, check to see if they are running up to speed... maybe download 3dmark 2003 too. In 3dmark you should be in the 10,000-11,000 range.... if you are below that then its some sort of driver\windows\system problem.

Edge
08-31-04, 11:57 AM
if that too doesnt work try writing cl_updaterate 101

Eek, no! That's not recommended, all that will do is cause your computer to try to download 101 updates from the server per second, which causes major lag problems for both you and the server (since it sucks up a hell of a lot more server bandwidth than the default setting of 20 or 30, and if your rate isn't set high enough then it will simply freeze you).

Anyway, to the topic creator's question, here's a few things you can try: set the command "rate 10000" (assuming you're on broadband), as this will eliminate many of the lag spikes, which may be contributing to the problem. Also are you playing in Direct3d or OpenGL mode? That sounds like the problem people have when running the game in D3D with certain video cards, definatly make sure it's running in OpenGL. And finally, maybe try reducing the "max pre-rendered frames" or whatever it's called in Rivatuner to the lowest value you can (0 in D3D, 2 in OGL), if it's set to high it may be causing input lag.

Vanzagar
08-31-04, 06:55 PM
Are you sure you aren't running directx instead of open gl. I had the same problem, but when I swithced to opengl my fps went thru the roof. CS doesn't like directx, there's a reason but it eludes me...

rhuala

Phoking
08-31-04, 11:30 PM
I know ive been running open GL because I tried dx3d and it ran even worse. I have broadband and there are no lag spikes on the servers I play on and its purely a hardware/software problem. And i checked Riva tuner which said my prerender limit for OpenGL is already 2 frames.

Doom 3 got 47 FPS on second timedemo at 1024 High res. with 4X AA and 8X AF. Normal gameplay is more like the first timedemo run where it freezes randomly for loading (like before some doors open), which might be because of 512 MB of memory. Thats about all I've tried with this card. I'll look into 3dmark.

Edit: My friend told me to check out my processor and i found it it has 132 mhz FSB.. he says thats really slow and i should overclock it but im a total overclock nub. My processor is pretty damn old and it'd probably be a better idea just to replace it. Any suggestions?

CaptNKILL
09-01-04, 01:49 AM
Edit: My friend told me to check out my processor and i found it it has 132 mhz FSB.. he says thats really slow and i should overclock it but im a total overclock nub. My processor is pretty damn old and it'd probably be a better idea just to replace it. Any suggestions?

Na, i think your friend is mistaken. Pentium 4s have a quad FSB (athlons have double... so obviously this doesnt effect performance much). So its really 133 (probably just mislabeled) multiplied by 4 = 533Mhz BUS. And no this is not the problem. I think even if you DID have a 133Mhz BUS (running with a pentium 3 for example) a 6800 GT would still make it run smooth.

Keep looking. Its not your machine. People with much older, slower computers are running the game faster than you, theres a problem somewhere, trust me.

-=DVS=-
09-01-04, 02:02 AM
heh 6800 runs CounterStrike with 8SxAA 16xAF 1600x1200 at constant 100 without optimizations :eek2: try reinstalling drivers maybe ! unleas you use LCD and Vsync is always on. Or perhapse some incompatibility with your motherboard.

Phoking
09-01-04, 04:29 AM
heh 6800 runs CounterStrike with 8SxAA 16xAF 1600x1200 at constant 100 without optimizations :eek2: try reinstalling drivers maybe ! unleas you use LCD and Vsync is always on. Or perhapse some incompatibility with your motherboard.

I formatted recently so drivers shouldn't be a problem and I'm using a Viewsonic A70 CRT in single display mode and I know Vsync is off because it does go up to 99fps but will dip on some places.

I also tried 3dmark 03 and got a score of 10096 which I'm not sure is normal for this kind of system.. Also 3d mark said hyper threading was avaliable but disabled? I don't even think that term was around when I bought my processor, anyways is there any way to mess with that?

*Do you guys think that my 350W PS could be contributing to this strange occurrence? The GT has it's own molex line though.

Nutty
09-01-04, 07:25 AM
Counterstrike, is mainly cpu limited. Your problem is probably due to the 2.5ghz P4 you have. The HL engine just isn't very efficient cpu wise.

I run mine at upto 200fps tho. For all those that continually tell me CS cant go that high, its bull, it does. Weather or not it updates that fast is irrelevant, cos it sure feels alot better to me.

You need to activate developer mode to get above 100fps tho.

developer 1
fps_max 200

I vary between 120 and 200fps, with refresh of 120. Feels great to me.

P.S. Make sure you are using the OpenGL renderer. (Or are we talking about source engine?). D3D has a higher cpu usage for every primitive batch dispatched.

Eek, no! That's not recommended, all that will do is cause your computer to try to download 101 updates from the server per second, which causes major lag problems for both you and the server (since it sucks up a hell of a lot more server bandwidth than the default setting of 20 or 30, and if your rate isn't set high enough then it will simply freeze you).


Bollox. Everyone uses 101 these days. I dont have any problems on servers, with 101,101,25000 for updaterate, cmdrate, and rate.

Edge
09-01-04, 09:12 AM
Well, if you played on a server that had a limited amount of bandwidth it would definatly make a difference. You don't want to see what happens when a 16 player server that only has a megabit of upload and everyone on the server uses those settings. Not to mention it's pretty pointless...would you even notice the difference between 100 updates a second and 30 updates a second when movement is interpolated anyway?

Nutty
09-01-04, 12:04 PM
Interpolation will never feel as good as proper faster updates. Its not a problem on the servers I play on.

CaptNKILL
09-01-04, 01:58 PM
Counterstrike, is mainly cpu limited. Your problem is probably due to the 2.5ghz P4 you have. The HL engine just isn't very efficient cpu wise.


Its NOT his system! Remember, you're talking about a game from 1998. Most systems were under 400Mhz then and had 8Mb graphics cards. The newest version of CS on Steam probably doesnt run much different than the original. Look at my specs, Im running "only" 2.09Ghz, but I play at 1600x1200 4xAA 16xAF High Quality... I could probably use 8xsAA but Ive never tried.

Some suggestions:
Update motherboard drivers
Update motherboard bios
Update sound drivers
Update network drivers
Update mouse drivers (ive seen mice kill performance before... so try it)
Make sure you have the newest version of DirectX
Try more video drivers (i know you did this already... try some old ones, and some of the really new betas)


BTW, your 3dmark score seems a tad low, but its roughly what you should have.

EDIT: About the power thing, Its a possibility, but since that would require you to buy a new PSU and rip your machine apart, try everything I said above first.

Also, Ill say it again, its not the speed of your machine. Someones on crack if they think CS (even on steam) requires a lot of CPU\GPU power. CS ran GREAT at 1024x768 on my Athlon 750Mhz (200Mhz FSB... really only 100Mhz), with a Geforce 2 GTS 32Mb and 256Mbs of PC-133. And any game like this running on a 6800 isnt going to be CPU limited unless you uncap the framerate and look at the difference between 150 and 200fps.

Its not the speed of your system.

Cheimison
09-01-04, 02:44 PM
CS ran great on my 500mhz with a GeForce 1. Half-Life is an old, old, old engine.

CaptNKILL
09-01-04, 02:48 PM
I just played CS Steam at 1600x1200 8xSAA 16xAF High Quality, with everything on in game, developer mode, 999fps limit, and my framerate was constantly around 130. The only time it changed was when someone used a smoke grenade... I saw ONE smoke grenade and I was looking at it through a scope and my framerate went to 49 (then back to 130 after I looked away).
So, Phoking, is it possible that your drops in framerate only happen when theres smoke on the screen? Those have been known to kill framerate for a long time (especially with anti aliasing on). I dont think this is the only problem, but it could be part of it.

Phoking
09-01-04, 03:15 PM
I just played CS Steam at 1600x1200 8xSAA 16xAF High Quality, with everything on in game, developer mode, 999fps limit, and my framerate was constantly around 130. The only time it changed was when someone used a smoke grenade... I saw ONE smoke grenade and I was looking at it through a scope and my framerate went to 49 (then back to 130 after I looked away).
So, Phoking, is it possible that your drops in framerate only happen when theres smoke on the screen? Those have been known to kill framerate for a long time (especially with anti aliasing on). I dont think this is the only problem, but it could be part of it.

Smoke grenades have little or no difference in my fps. Its only when I get into large areas that it dips to around 65 and less. The only reason I'm even complaining about these dips is because whenever it dips or recovers, I lose control of the player and it keeps moving forward, for example, one or two seconds after I let go of the key. I've taken some SS to show how my game performs. (fps_max is set at 99).

#1: The fps dipped to around 60-65 and stayed there when i look that far.
#2: I went inside and the fps went back to 99.
#3: Fps dipped again to around 60-70 for just standing there.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/phoking/1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/phoking/2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/phoking/3.jpg

Nutty
09-01-04, 04:21 PM
I wasn't insinuating that CS is a heavy cpu game. Just thats its more reliant on cpu for very high frame-rates than it is in graphics. Like someone said, going from gf4 to 6800 makes little difference, because the graphics rendering is not the bottleneck.

Why would my fps dip to almost sub 100, at 800x600 with no AA or AF on a 6800GT, when other times its trying to do 300fps? Its not the rendering, its the cpu side when theres alot of players onscreen, or in firefights.

HL1 was based on quake1 which was a software renderer, I just dont think its very good at making the best of hardware acceleration and modern features.

On my missus system, who now has my old GF4, the frame-rate is terrible, because its on such a slow cpu.

CaptNKILL
09-01-04, 07:21 PM
I wasn't insinuating that CS is a heavy cpu game. Just thats its more reliant on cpu for very high frame-rates than it is in graphics. Like someone said, going from gf4 to 6800 makes little difference, because the graphics rendering is not the bottleneck.

Why would my fps dip to almost sub 100, at 800x600 with no AA or AF on a 6800GT, when other times its trying to do 300fps? Its not the rendering, its the cpu side when theres alot of players onscreen, or in firefights.

HL1 was based on quake1 which was a software renderer, I just dont think its very good at making the best of hardware acceleration and modern features.

On my missus system, who now has my old GF4, the frame-rate is terrible, because its on such a slow cpu.

I dont know, ive never seen anything like your experiencing. Like I said, I just ran the game at extremely high settings and it didnt drop below 130fps until a smoke grenade appeared. Maybe the engine isnt very CPU efficient, but Ive personally never had any issues with low frame rates unless vsync was on, smoke grenades were around or when I had slower hardware and I attempted to run with lots of AA\AF at high resolutions.

Remember, Phoking's problem isnt with extremely high frame rates. Hes getting 60fps at 1024x768 when there are more models on screen or large areas visible. These arent CPU intensive situations (i dont think there are any in CS).

If anyone is getting framerate drops in this game with a 6800GT and a CPU over 2ghz, then theres probably something wrong.

EDIT: Phoking, dont forget to try the stuff i listed earlier. I really think its software\driver related.

Zeta
09-01-04, 07:47 PM
Have you tried any other drivers? Maybe those beta drivers have an issue.

Subtestube
09-01-04, 09:22 PM
I don't know what the issue is, but I'd put money on it not being CPU limitation. The HL engine is NOT as intensive as the Quake 2 engine, and I can run that with very high frame rates on my 1.5 GHz notebook with Intel Extreme Graphics. I mean... I can run Q2 with no slow down on my parents' old PIII 500 with a TNT2 M64 in it! In fact... to go one older, when it first came out, I ran the game smoothly at low res in SOFTWARE on a P133. As many others have said, there's NO WAY an engine that old should be jittering on a modern CPU.

Edit: Actually, though it may look naff, you might actually want to try running the game in software and see if you have the same issues. It'd be interesting to know.

Phoking
09-02-04, 12:57 AM
I don't know what the issue is, but I'd put money on it not being CPU limitation. The HL engine is NOT as intensive as the Quake 2 engine, and I can run that with very high frame rates on my 1.5 GHz notebook with Intel Extreme Graphics. I mean... I can run Q2 with no slow down on my parents' old PIII 500 with a TNT2 M64 in it! In fact... to go one older, when it first came out, I ran the game smoothly at low res in SOFTWARE on a P133. As many others have said, there's NO WAY an engine that old should be jittering on a modern CPU.

Edit: Actually, though it may look naff, you might actually want to try running the game in software and see if you have the same issues. It'd be interesting to know.

I never had this problem with CS 1.5 but have always I had this problem with CS 1.6 even with my old Geforce 3. So I bought a new vid card thinking it would solve it. I have tried 61.77, 62 betas, and currently using 66.00 betas with no luck. You don't even want to know about running the game in software mode. There's something definately wrong when I can run Quake 3 maxed out at 90 fps constant and I can't keep CS 1.6 stable.

BTW, I also tried running it in 800 X 640 and the fps' still drop down and has the same loss of control problems.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/phoking/fy_stoneworld0000.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/phoking/q3.jpg

-=DVS=-
09-02-04, 01:02 AM
BTW did you try reinstalling windows , if problem came with CS 1.6 , hardware should not be blamed here , looks like screwd up windows , software problem.

Phoking
09-02-04, 01:02 AM
BTW did you try reinstalling windows , if problem came with CS 1.6 , hardware should not be blamed here , looks like screwd up windows , software problem.

I've formatted twice in the last week cuz of various problems so Windows should not be a problem.

-=DVS=-
09-02-04, 01:16 AM
You also said , GF3 haveing same problem , did you change anything in Bios , reset everything to defoult and see , i had one Gigabyte motherboard were it would hadle IRQs badly my card would perform just like yours right now , changeing motherboard fixed it , but it was right after i installed it , to you it happend only right now ? or did you always had poor performance ?