John carmack on next game engine.. cool stuff.

[Nv40]

http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=266373


In my current research I've got a
zero-sample one which is the hardware PCF for comparison, a single sample that's randomly jittered, four samples
as kind of the baseline, and also a sixteen sample version which can give you very nice, high quality soft shadows
on there. And I'll probably toss in even higher ones like a 25 or 64 sample version on there which will mostly be
used for offline rendering work if people want to go ahead and have something render and they don't mind
if it's running a few frames a second, you can get literally film quality shadowing effects out of this, by just
changing out the number of samples that are going on in there. This wind up being very close to the algorithm
that Pixar has used for a great many of the Renderman based movies, and it's just running in the GPU's now in
real time at the lower sample levels.


so as you see next engine improvements ,to Doom3 engine ,softshadows and more realism with lighting/softshadows and superior Reflections ..Unreal3 use up to 16samples for the shadows and he is already speaking about 25/64 :retard: in his next upgrade to the engine and will be capable of rendering close to Pixar (from the TOy story creators) quality graphics in real time and on par in non real time.. :drooling: .even thought it will be mostly used for non realtime graphics (not for playing but for artististic work) if you dont mind to get 1-5 fps .. SLI setup with very fast PC's will help even more.. it will be awesome to have a first look of how the game will look in the next 5-10 years.. :D carmack suggested quality lighting/shadows that with my understanding will be far superior even than the ones used in Unreal3 engine. :drooling: :drooling: :clap:

- higher quality normalmaps
-superior reflections.. (ability to not only control the intensity like Doom3 but also the shape of them) this is a really big plus!! means more realistic materials.. (no more plastic look of some things ) this mean life like reflections.
-softshadows everywhere ,with completely new techniques for outdoors.
-Fp blending/filtering will be used as default for the higher quality lighting .
-Subsurfacescatering.. for better skin..
- quality Hair
-very long pixel shaders (fragments shaders) for the game..


probably is the biggest post ever made by John carmack.. and a bit technical.. but so far looks that he is very serious about the graphics the next time.. (like if Doom3 graphics were a major problem by today standars :) )

[Mr. Hunt]

Sweet... if it ends up being like that :).

[aAv7]

engine smengine.....sound great and all...but where is the focus on gameplay and story elements... this isnt 93....gamer's require more than eye-candy.

[nVidi0t]

Would you feel more immersed in a photo realistic world or a world which looked like a bunch of 2d sprites and cartoon like figures?

It's not John Carmack's job to design the game itself, just the big shiny engine.

[gmontem]

Something must be wrong with my eyes. None of the Renderman based movies Pixar produced looked photo realistic to me. They looked very cartoony-like. :p

[nVidi0t]

That was the point, it was a kids film, but look at the landscapes, lighting and architecture in Pixar's movies. They are bordering photo realism in Shrek 2.

[Nv40]

yes John carmack is not the gameplay geek.. but the graphics technician..the gameplay elements in their next game will come from the feedback of their entire team about what they want in their next game. Pixar graphics like toystory/Nemo are not photorealistic ,but movierealistic quality graphics in 3d. if you want real photorealism .. then simply turn on the TV and enjoy watching the news all day .. ;)

next id software game should be capable up to final fantasy graphics.. which use Pixar REnderman everywhere. that is cinematic quality everywhere , that is fiction and reality together :)

[gmontem]

if you want real photorealism .. then simply turn on the TV and enjoy watching the news.. ;)
Maybe that explains why roughly 90% of the programs I watch on TV is CNN and local news stations. lol.

[nVidi0t]

Maybe ID's next project is a news game!

[Nv40]

Maybe ID's next project is a news game!

indeed..
it will not be a CNN documentary... :D
Photorealism is very important ,but games will be very boring if they doesnt have some sort of fiction in them. just like photoshop where the things that looks more interesting not necessarily are the ones that looks like the things we are tired to see everyday in the real life.

[Soylent]

Would you feel more immersed in a photo realistic world or a world which looked like a bunch of 2d sprites and cartoon like figures?

It's not John Carmack's job to design the game itself, just the big shiny engine.

I prefer doom/doom 2 still today, screw immersiveness if you can't even keep from falling asleep at the keyboard.

[jAkUp]

i choose the imersive :) If the game looks like ass... I just cant get myself into it...

[Lfctony]

Good graphics ie PA with great gameplay. :)

[SH64]

Superb!!!

now all we have to do is :

wait 1 year for some screenshots
1 year for a leak :p
1 year for videos
1-2 years till the game is out .

thats maybe 2009 (along with the GeForce 11800 introduction) .

[gmontem]

I think people can become completely immersed in a game if it makes them forget they're sitting in front of a computer monitor and keyboard regardless of the graphics. I would like to see one day wide acceptance of head mounted displays (the ones with a mini monitor for each eye) and head tracking units. Would be interest if id's next engine natively supports those devices such that the person can use his head for freelook without affecting the crosshair and keyboard/mouse for body position and crosshair movement. Maybe then input devices with gyroscopes will take off since you can hold them in the air like a real gun. Now that would be interesting, a Logitech mouse that looks like a gun.

[Skrot]

Superb!!!

now all we have to do is :

wait 1 year for some screenshots
1 year for a leak :p
1 year for videos
1-2 years till the game is out .

thats maybe 2009 (along with the GeForce 11800 introduction) .Apparently they want the development time to be less than Doom3. Carmack said (in the very thing that you're replying about), "I would expect that by the end of this year we'll probably be rendering some demo scenes that will be indicative of what the technology is eventually going to be producing." Now If you ask me, that sounds like that this year they're going to be able to create some screenshots of what the game will look like. Now whether they release them is another thing.

I realise that your post was probably in jest, but it looks to be a somewhat incorrect joke. At this stage anyway...

[Subtestube]

The whole head movement thing is a gyp anyhow - to really simulate the human experience of vision you need saccades, and for that you'd need to actually monitor EYE movement. Yipezers.

[gmontem]

Monitoring head movement isn't a gyp when you consider the cost of buying enough monitors to surround yourself. You'll need enough horsepower or computers to render all of the screens as well. Sounds more economically feasible with a head mounted display. I don't disagree you with monitoring eye movement though. It's the only way of using depth of field correctly.

[Skrot]

Yeah so we really just need something a la the Matrix, and be able to stick a metal rod into our brains.

[SH64]

Apparently they want the development time to be less than Doom3. Carmack said (in the very thing that you're replying about), "I would expect that by the end of this year we'll probably be rendering some demo scenes that will be indicative of what the technology is eventually going to be producing." Now If you ask me, that sounds like that this year they're going to be able to create some screenshots of what the game will look like. Now whether they release them is another thing.

I realise that your post was probably in jest, but it looks to be a somewhat incorrect joke. At this stage anyway...

Well i really hope that it wont take very long , but thats the usuall trend for big games ... theres always delays & other complications that prevent the game to get released as the developer intended .
seeing that UE3 is slated due to 2006 .. i wouldent be suprised for the next JC engine to take 4 years or so .

anyway i'm exited to see the features mentioned there in action .. the lighting & shadwoing techniques are the most subjects that interest me when it comes to graphics .

& yes .. i can tolrate a game with bad gameplay elemnts for a high quality graphics . it just depends on the player .

[Skrot]

i wouldn't be suprised for the next JC engine to take 4 years or so.The engine or the game? I'm confident that Carmack knows approximately how long it'll take to modify the Doom3 engine with the changes he has in mind (I think he's already implemented many of them).

anyway i'm exited to see the features mentioned there in action .. the lighting & shadwoing techniques are the most subjects that interest me when it comes to graphics.Indeed, me too.

[SH64]

The engine or the game?


Sorry , i meant the whole game development .

[Intel17]

in UT2004 voice "Holy ****!"
:drooling: :drooling: :drooling:

It's a new renderer, with all those new features, and he expects it to be up and running by years end... plus his whole Aerospace thing and his new kid...

He's not human!

This, ladies and gentlemen, is why he's called "Teh Carmack" :)

[Skrot]

It's not a new renderer. It's the Doom3 one with more spiffiness.

[Intel17]

No, its a New renderer, based on the Unified lighting approach...so its an extension on the actual tech of Doom 3, but a new renderer.