Lawsuit uncovers Bush Guard records

[sabrewulf165]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/09/08/bush.national.ap/index.html

make what you will of it (mag)

[evilchris]

Couldn't care less. Kerry torched villages in Vietnam and begged for purple hearts, Bush missed some duty. I'd say they effectively null each other.

[Sazar]

i am really beyond caring either way...

mcCain said the other day that it is really sad that we continue to concentrate on what may or may not have happened regarding someone's service 30 odd years ago when we really should be concentrating on the events in the world today and the candidates as they are today...

kerry wears his vietnam service as a badge to show he can lead... fine...

bush wears his vietnam service as a badge to show he cared for the nation and played his part... fine...

the relevancy of the claims/counter-claims and all the various media and left and right wing agenda's playing up the false-hoods and out of context mis-interpretations has gotten really chronic...

/me shakes his head..

perhaps some day before the elections the media will actually concentrate on the platforms of the parties and disseminate the parties beliefs to the general public rather and gradualy divulging into a he said/she said/oh look @ the kitty event...

[sabrewulf165]

I agree with both of you, I only posted this for the interest of others on the forums.

[Sazar]

my post was not directed @ you m8 :cool: ...I am commenting on the media in general and the sensationalism related to anything of this nature...

given it is interesting but is it as relevant as it will undoubtedly be played up to be?

[Son Goku]

perhaps some day before the elections the media will actually concentrate on the platforms of the parties and disseminate the parties beliefs to the general public rather and gradualy divulging into a he said/she said/oh look @ the kitty event...

Tell me about it. I'm growing tired of all the negative campaigning taken to a certain extreme... I don't seem to remember it this bad in the past... I'll be glad when November comes by and we can put all this "he's so horrible because..." behind us.

I suspect Rove might have had a part in raising the bar to negative campaigning this election year, albeit both sides are acting just as bad... We don't even hear what's important anymore, but rather that which one could get from the village gossip or a tabloid :(

[sbp]

Every day your opponent is on the defensive is a lost day for him and one in which the your candidate doesn't have to spend defending his record.

Dems are now trying to make Bush's guard service an issue. It won't be that effective since its been vetted many times since 2000.

Will the newsmedia ask Kerry to specifically condemn the ad Texans for Truth is running? And oh look, this independent {ha!} 527 group is part of DriveDemocracy which received its initial moola (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&oi=news&start=0&num=1&q=http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/president/2004-09-07-texas-ad_x.htm) from the radical group MoveON.Org and is being ran by the guy who managed the unsuccessful campaign of the Democrat candidate for Texas governor in 2002.

Kerry-Edwards campaign spokesman Chad Clanton said, "We've never heard of this outfit," referring to Texans for Truth. uh huh. :rolleyes:

Yes, when people go vote in November all this arguing about what happened 30 years old is not going to matter much. What will is who the voters believe is best able to lead this country against terrorism.

[vampireuk]

The fun thing is Kerry is going on about his war record still while Bush doesn't :D

[sytaylor]

I have to say its probably the dems that started all this negativity with the whole "ABB" campaigns, with Kerry being selected for being the "most electable" rather than the best candidate. I would have prefered Edwards-Kerry as real opposition, to shine a light on areas where perhaps the Republicans haven't performed so well and real debate could have started. Instead they chose to paint Bush as everything but the man he appears to be and the only people who buy it are those who already bought.

[vampireuk]

The only person the dems could have picked who is more out of touch with real life would be Mr. Burns, and he is a republican.

[Sazar]

I have to say its probably the dems that started all this negativity with the whole "ABB" campaigns, with Kerry being selected for being the "most electable" rather than the best candidate. I would have prefered Edwards-Kerry as real opposition, to shine a light on areas where perhaps the Republicans haven't performed so well and real debate could have started. Instead they chose to paint Bush as everything but the man he appears to be and the only people who buy it are those who already bought.

the negative campaigning was introduced wrt the current set of players by the republicans... mainly from bush's political team...

the same tactics were used v/s opponents in 2000 whether they be republican or democrat...

bush's team managing his image does a good job and they are also effective at negative campaigning... almost everyone will (sometimes begrudgingly) admit that it is what they are good at and what the democrats need to learn to do...

clinton was on a couple of programs and addressed the same thing and there are others who have said as much...

if you live here and listen to some of the comments made by the bush administration officials about various candidates... it makes more sense :)

when the dems primaries were being held basically dean was the man to beat and he was the first person that the political advisors went after... when kerry emerged than they went after him early and often...

where do you think the flip-flop analogy has come from :)

as ludicrous as it is given the various flip-flops in the bush adminstration itself it has been very effective because kerry responded late and the bush camp keeps playing it up every chance they get even with out of context material... @ the end of the day if you knew about the platforms and the speeches and the comments you would know this was not the case but if you were just turning on your tele than it would certainly seem plausible...

the anyone but bush thing was started a long time ago circa iraq war... bush's popularity post 9/11 and post iraq war was pretty high but the invasion and subsequent occupation of iraq led to some very vocal and active protests and led to the strengthening of the ABB voice... but the dems did not start the negativity and have just played along...

painting the person for supposedly representing something that they do not is not the democratic creation... it is a tried/tested and patented device used to great effect by karl rove since the 2000 elections for the presidential seat...

if the dems continue to play along they will undoubtedly loose but kerry has recently started firing back... whether its too little too late or even prudent remains to be seen... as it stands the electoral college votes are too close to call @ the moment...

bush is not very different from the man he is portrayed to be... naturally not to the extreme's but there are no glaring differences... to suggest the dems have indeed painted him to be something he is not is giving them too much credit in this case :)

IMO....

[jnd3]

Hmmm. Some are now thinking that the documents might be forgeries (http://www.nationalreview.com/kerry/kerry200409091142.asp).

Proportional font, superscript 'th', line breaks that look eerily like Microsoft Word. I'm sure I'll see a full investigation on the front page of all the major newspapers tomorrow.

[sytaylor]

if you live here and listen to some of the comments made by the bush administration officials about various candidates... it makes more sense :)

You'd be suprised how much coverage we get actually, way different to the 2000 elections which all we heard was that there was some caffuffle about florida. We now get full speeches by both sides, and have, on occasion had direct interviews with Collin Powell as well as former Bush aides/speechwriters etc.

I still think my point is valid, that despite what the Dems are saying being perhaps a valid platform, the general message of the party is one of ABB. Not "Kerry is our man", which are two very different messages.

[Son Goku]

Karl Rove (Bush's political advisor) has had a very long history in Texas for negative campaigning, secret whisper campaigns, and sleezy tactics in general. During the last election.

Rove wasn't unlikely to have been behind the secret whisper campaign that was directed against McCain. Both wrt him being supposedly too unstable to run for office because of his having been a POW in Vietnaum, and from what saz said about his supposed illegitimate (adopted) black baby. And if Rove's reputation held true, I doubt Bush was even appraised or knew what Rove was doing wrt this...

[vampireuk]

A email I got from a forum member here

Here is how it breaks down. You need 50 points in a year to complete your required service in the National guard. Bush had 2 years where he was over 300 points and one year where he was over 600 and the last two years were above 50 but no year was below fifty, yet people will ignore all of this and say well we don't all the records and Bush cannot account for the missing year. Oh you mean that year where he got 56 points which is 6 points above the minimum requirement or maybe you are thinking of the year he got 650 points? Which is it ASSHOLE!?

This is such a stupid discussion the left is crying over. The president never made his service an issue and to cry about a few missing month (if there ever were any) is just no a concern to the nation. We have 4 years of Bush in office THAT speaks for its self, not a few missing months in 1975.


Something to think about ;)

[Rakeesh]

Hmmm. Some are now thinking that the documents might be forgeries (http://www.nationalreview.com/kerry/kerry200409091142.asp).

Proportional font, superscript 'th', line breaks that look eerily like Microsoft Word. I'm sure I'll see a full investigation on the front page of all the major newspapers tomorrow.

Not only that, but the font used in that "document" was variable width, (as opposed to fixed width, like what most typewriters do) and included the ' character. Back in that day you would have to be an editor of a major newspaper in order to have that kind of typewriter, which hardly fits the description of a commissioned officer in the armed forces.

This is turning out to become a major scandal that has cost Kerry the election. Apparently this "document" was obtained from somebody within the DNC, who passed it to the Kerry campaign, who subsequently handed it to CBS. Now Dan Rather looks like a complete bafoon, and the democratic party itself is in major disarray. All of that coming from a Democratic party strategist to boot.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/9/10/130050.shtml

It's over, Kerry lost. It's all because he had to bring Vietnam into this whole thing too, which quite frankly has nothing to do with modern issues.

[Drumphil]

It's over, Kerry lost. It's all because he had to bring Vietnam into this whole thing too, which quite frankly has nothing to do with modern issues.

the election hasn't happened yet, but bush will probably win. what I disagree on is the importance of the issue. Kerry was stupid to bring it up given what he must have known he would end up looking like, but that doesn't make the issue any less relevant to his character, and that is very important for someone who is suppose to be the most powerfull man in the country. Without credibility and honesty, I couldn't give a damn what anyone says their policies are going to be. Its the quality of the persons character that determines how much weight I put on what they say.

So if this document is fake, do we have documents accounting for all of GWB's national guard service? I thought that was suppose to be a missing piece or something.. so do we actually have the real and definate answers to what GWB claimed he did, and what he actually did in the national guard? If you don't care, fine by me, but I care about the honesty of polititians, regardless of the issue.