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View Full Version : 3Dmark05 High and better IQ...

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Uken
09-30-04, 09:04 AM
Info..(got some IQ Ati and Nvidia comparison from DriverHeaven)

http://www.driverheaven.net/articles/3dmark--05/

Does anyone notice that the IQ on XT PE with the new Cat beta? (for sure it improved about 1000 more points)..IQ looks a bit blury and some parts of the picture are not rendered very well, Nvidia has better IQ on its forceware.

sorry if i`m wrong :) maybe my eyes need a fix.
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AMD xp 2800+ @ 188 X 12.5
a7n400 PRO 2 (gigabyte)
512 Kingmax (lame) pc 3200
PNY Geforce 6800 GT @ 410/1100
Audigy 2 with Creative 5300 5.1
----
3Dmark05
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm05=29598
mustrum
09-30-04, 09:14 AM
If they would render blurry images futurmark wouldn't have aprooved the driver.
That would be so damn obvious. Noone would overlook that.
dpagan
10-01-04, 05:17 PM
i don't understand whats the big deal with 3Dmark05, i for one think it looks good but it's not earth shatterring as some review put it, as a matter of fact i've seen equally good graphics on games such as PRINCE OF PERSIA, DOOM3 and videos of HL2 not only in my opinion do they look better but they also run a hell of a lot smoother, just my 2 cents, 3Dmark05 to ME = not big ****
ChrisRay
10-01-04, 06:48 PM
As Muya said, Clean it up. Absolutely no reason to be calling anyone names or starting flame wars here.

This thread has been cleaned up a bit.
anzak
10-01-04, 06:56 PM
Hmm... Alright, there is a real difference between the X800 and the 6800. Keep in mind these are compressed jpegs, the uncompressed versions show a much larger difference.

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=8069&stc=1

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=8070&stc=1

I will have a zip with the uncompressed versions in a few minutes.

EDIT: Alright, here is the uncompressed images (www.freewebs.com/anzak/3DM05IQ.zip).
anzak
10-01-04, 08:28 PM
No one has a comment to make about this?
anzak
10-01-04, 09:51 PM
Why is it that I kill every thread I post in?
gordon151
10-01-04, 09:57 PM
Nice find anzak! Good work. Did you do the pics yourself or did you get them from a third party?
MikeC
10-01-04, 10:38 PM
Nice find anzak! Good work. Did you do the pics yourself or did you get them from a third party?

Why do you ask him that?
anzak
10-01-04, 11:18 PM
Nice find anzak! Good work. Did you do the pics yourself or did you get them from a third party?

:lol2: Are they really that well done? Yes, they were made by me with the powerful program MSPaint.
gordon151
10-02-04, 12:06 AM
Wow, only reason I even said anything was because anzak looked like he really wanted someone to comment. Must remember never to do pity replies I guess.
anzak
10-02-04, 12:28 AM
Wow, only reason I even said anything was because anzak looked like he really wanted someone to comment. Must remember never to do pity replies I guess.

Not really, but thanks.
Nv40
10-02-04, 01:54 AM
Why is it that I kill every thread I post in?


maybe because people can't notice a diference in those very high compressed shots..
anzak
10-02-04, 02:24 AM
It turns out it's due to DTS which is enabled on nvidai cards by default.
OWA
10-02-04, 04:00 PM
When comparing IQ between ATI and Nvidia (in 3DMark05), should the shadows be ignored? It doesn't look like they do them the same but I think that is noticed elsewhere and is supposed to just be a result of the way they handle them differently. Is that correct? Basically, the ATI shadows are soft and blurry with the detail fading away in spots whereas Nvidia's are harder and clear so the detail of the shadow doesn't fade. Also, do you need to have the business version to generate the reference image?
jbirney
10-02-04, 06:17 PM
When comparing IQ between ATI and Nvidia (in 3DMark05), should the shadows be ignored? It doesn't look like they do them the same but I think that is noticed elsewhere and is supposed to just be a result of the way they handle them differently. Is that correct? Basically, the ATI shadows are soft and blurry with the detail fading away in spots whereas Nvidia's are harder and clear so the detail of the shadow doesn't fade. Also, do you need to have the business version to generate the reference image?

That could be due to the DST used by the NV cards.
tertsi
10-02-04, 06:30 PM
Bjord3D.com / 3DMark05 article (http://www.************/read.php?cID=702)
-------------------------------

1st pic ....
x800 pic (frame 985) (brightness +40) (http://www.skenegroup.net/tertsi/3dmark05/x800moire.jpg) <-- nice moire pattern .... AI AI AI? :)

6800 pic (frame 985) (brightness +40) (http://www.skenegroup.net/tertsi/3dmark05/6800.jpg)

Original shots (http://www.************/read.php?pageID=1052&Submit=Go&cID=702&topcat_search=1&form_keyword=) by Bjorn3D ....

original x800 pic (frame 985) (http://www.************/photos/data/503/14ati_aa_gt1_0985.jpg)

original 6800 pic (frame 985) (http://www.************/photos/data/503/14nv_gt1_aa_0985.jpg)

And 2nd pic ....
x800 pic (frame 950) (http://www.************/photos/data/503/14ati_aa_gt1_0950.jpg) <-- bottom-left and bottom-right boxe's are very pixelated and same moire pattern on the floor.

6800 pic (frame 950) (http://www.************/photos/data/503/14nv_gt1_aa_0950.jpg)
schuey74
10-02-04, 06:30 PM
When comparing IQ between ATI and Nvidia (in 3DMark05), should the shadows be ignored? It doesn't look like they do them the same but I think that is noticed elsewhere and is supposed to just be a result of the way they handle them differently. Is that correct? Basically, the ATI shadows are soft and blurry with the detail fading away in spots whereas Nvidia's are harder and clear so the detail of the shadow doesn't fade. Also, do you need to have the business version to generate the reference image?
In HL2 soft shadows are used for DX9 and hard shadows for dx 8.0 & 8.1. At first, I would think that soft shadows would more than likely be correct, being that this is suppose to be a DX9.0 only benchmark. But I'd really like to see a comparsion to the reference images first, before jumping to that conclusion.
jbirney
10-02-04, 06:45 PM
In HL2 soft shadows are used for DX9 and hard shadows for dx 8.0 & 8.1. At first, I would think that soft shadows would more than likely be correct, being that this is suppose to be a DX9.0 only benchmark. But I'd really like to see a comparsion to the reference images first, before jumping to that conclusion.

No its directly related to the DST method used by NV cards:

http://www.hexus.net/content/reviews/review.php?dXJsX3Jldmlld19JRD04NzgmdXJsX3BhZ2U9Nw= =
poppachocks
10-02-04, 07:33 PM
Bjord3D.com / 3DMark05 article (http://www.************/read.php?cID=702)
-------------------------------



Interesting read. Could definately tell the difference between the two cards on some of those pics.

Thanks for the link!
Ruined
10-02-04, 07:37 PM
One thing I noticed is that ATI shots have significantly more banding in the sky - possibly the first FP24 artifact we've seen - I will post my findings later tonight with circle comparisons.
Ruined
10-02-04, 10:01 PM
Here is my analysis :)

ATI Sacrificing Image Quality for Speed in 3dmark05?

After reviewing some 3dmark05 screenshot comparisons by Driverheaven.net and ************, it became evident that ATI may be sacrificing IQ for increased performance. Check out these comparisions:

3DMARK05 ATI X800 ARTIFACTS: FILTERING/MOIRE

*** PLEASE OPEN THESE TWO IMAGES IN SEPERATE BROWSER WINDOWS AND SWITCH BACK AND FORTH USING ALT TAB AND EXAMINE THE AREAS IN THE RED OUTLINES

NOTE the obvious moire patterns in the ATI screenshots
Nvidia GeForce 6800 Ultra 66.51 Beta (http://www.reflectonreality.com/images/3dm05/16800.png)
ATI X800XTPE 4.9 w/ hotfix (http://www.reflectonreality.com/images/3dm05/1x800.png)

Source: ************

********

3DMARK05 ATI X800 ARTIFACTS: BANDING

*** PLEASE OPEN THESE TWO IMAGES IN SEPERATE BROWSER WINDOWS AND SWITCH BACK AND FORTH USING ALT TAB AND EXAMINE THE AREA IN THE RED OUTLINE

NOTE the increased banding in the sky in the ATI screenshots
Nvidia GeForce 6800 Ultra 66.51 Beta (http://www.reflectonreality.com/images/3dm05/16800gt2.png)
ATI X800XTPE 8.07 Beta (http://www.reflectonreality.com/images/3dm05/1x800gt2.png)
Closeup of ATI's banding from above shot (http://www.reflectonreality.com/images/3dm05/2x800gt2.png)

Source: Driverheaven.net
schuey74
10-02-04, 10:11 PM
No its directly related to the DST method used by NV cards:

http://www.hexus.net/content/reviews/review.php?dXJsX3Jldmlld19JRD04NzgmdXJsX3BhZ2U9Nw= =
Thanks for the link.

I was quite surprised by the following two sentences.

"It's a specification that falls outside of DirectX, but Futuremark use it anyway."

"So while DSTs improve performance on compatible hardware, to the tune of anywhere between 10% and 16% in our tests, they most certainly do not give good output in 3DMark05's case, compared to the case where they're turned off."

It looks like DST must turned off for a true apples to apples comparison and that would invoke quite the performance hit.
SlyBoots
10-02-04, 11:22 PM
Why do you ask him that?

maybe because we have Stevie Wonder saying he sees a difference :rolleyes:
Nv40
10-02-04, 11:43 PM
wow! i saw RUined post a decided to give a try a compare IQ between ATI and NVIdia.. and there is indeed diferences.. specially in the SHadows.. which the reasons have been answered already.. i will not mind playing a game with either one.. .. however.. when i decided to compare AA/AF quality ,was surprised how much superior Nvidia 4xAA it is..in fact diferences are so striking that look like Bjorn was using 2x aa for ATI cards.. since never have seen ATI 4xaa failing that much. perhaps ATI simplified the algorithm ? i just want everyone here to give their honest opinions.. and lets ignore for a moment any lighting or shadows diferences ok?

here is 2 sreenshots from ATI and NVidia.. and they were the first one i picked to notice if there was a diference.. remember they were ramdonly picked by me.

screenshot #1 4xaa/8xaf

ATI
http://www.************/photos/showphoto.php/photo/15/sort/1/cat/503/page/2


NVidia
http://www.************/photos/showphoto.php/photo/28/sort/1/cat/503/page/1


notice the sphere .. which one shows more jaggies?

it is possible that you will need to move the internet explorer sliders left-right /up or down to have both pictures exactly in the same place.. then later flip back and forth..

screenshot #2 1024 4xaa/8xAF (ignore any shadow/lighting diferences)

ATI
http://www.************/photos/showphoto.php/photo/17/sort/1/cat/503/page/2

Nvidia
http://www.************/photos/showphoto.php/photo/30/sort/1/cat/503/page/1

usually reviews use very high resolutions where it is a bit more dificult to spot diferences but at 1024x768 its very easy to notice them..

Am i the only one who thinks NVidia have the ADvantage in IQ this generation? any comments JB ? :)